Scott Sutton Released

[dbl78]

7 minutes ago, vcboy2000 said:

We got played by Scott Sutton! 

I was totally on his side too, thinking that university did him dirty by not scheduling a face to face to fire him, and that he was blindsided by finding out about his firing on Twitter. 

That was false!

How are you in "lame duck negotiations" with the school for weeks to not renew your contract, even having a face to face with them on Sunday, then calling to rebuff the offer Monday morning (which I don't blame him for doing) and then completely ignore their repeated call backs to confirm their decision? If you're man enough to call and reject the offer, then be man enough to take the return calls that you're being released and move on.

And then to throw your own AD, who is a family friend, under the bus by insinuating to the media that you were caught off guard by discovering the news of your firing through Twitter... I'm struggling to see the class in that. 

And then letting the media run with these wild allegations that a tatto policy and a faith test kept you from winning? 

Where is the strong leadership, responsibility and ownership?!?!? 

While I still don't agree that Scott should have been let go over the phone, I understand Mike Carter's fear that the players would find out before the administration had a chance to talk with them. Our own beat writer for the Tulsa World admitted on Twitter that he had been calling the president's office weeks prior to inquire about recruiting regulations and Scott Sutton's job security. It was obvious there was a leak somewhere. Sometimes you just have to take that risk anyway to take the high road. This should have been one of those times. 

All that to say, my perception of ORU and Scott Sutton in this situation has totally flipped. ORU got played and then fumbled the ball by waiting a day too late to respond. You could tell they were caught totally off guard. 

The sad part is I've got friends in the admissions office saying they spent yesterday fielding calls from prospective students wondering if they should find another school to attend because they have tattoos. The admissions reps are concerned that this could affect what was on pace to be another record-breaking incoming class. 

Spin Billy's boy spin - you are the one getting played now.

What facts do you have that everyone knew the negotiations were over when Scott rejected the offer on Monday. 

Where is your proof that Scott ignored their calls.  Is it possible that they were calling Scott on his office phone and he was not in his office?  Is it possible they were calling him on his cell phone and he was in an area where he did not have signal strength.  But don't confuse yourself with the facts.  Let your imagination run wild here piling on baseless fact after baseless fact.

Again where is the proof that Scott can control the media.  It was your boy Billy who let the media run wild - why didn't he get in front of the story and protect OUR school from this mess.

Yes where was the strong leadership, responsibility, and ownership on the part of the school - I guess Billy was too busy with other things to protect OUR school. 

How is it that they were caught totally off-guard - they knew it was coming - why not have held a press conference to announce the issue on Monday, AFTER they told Scott?  Remember - they held all the cards - so how did they get played???

You are right, your boy Billy really fouled up this situation and will no doubt cost the school many future students.

 

[dbl78]

10 minutes ago, TrueBlue82 said:

After 18 years, there is no way that this separation was going to go well.

That said, it is pretty easy to see how it could have been handled better from all sides.

ORU did not time this decision well within the recruiting season and should have made sure that the final discussion was in person, as would have been expected for a long-tenured employee.  And, they waited too long to respond to the firestorm of rumor.

Sutton (or those close to him) poured fuel on the fire with comment that he "heard about it on twitter". While this may be "true", not disclosing that he had received multiple missed calls, a voicemail, and an email from ORU prior to the twitter is also questionable behavior.  And then someone sympathetic to Sutton started the tattoo and faith test rumor which had just enough truth to it to be appealing to the media - and the firestorm was created.

And the media... took a morsel of truth and blew it way out of proportion.  But, then again, that is their M.O.

Frankly, I'm disappointed with all parties - and hopeful that a solid new coach can look past this circus in his consideration of the new opportunity.  We desperately need a fresh start.

 

 

 

 

You bent yourself into a pretzel last night trying to explain how everyone's tweet's could be truthful - now you are willing to accept the fact that phone calls were made and Scott ignored them - please provide me the proof of that. 

I can be in a meeting for a few hours and come back to my office and have multiple unread e mails and missed phone calls.  Did I willing ignore them - of course not.

It is my understanding that a tattoo policy did exist a one time - I don't think that Scott was the one who started that policy. 

The firestorm that was created was not the fault of Scott - this one is all on Billy. 

[SpaceManSpiff]

There are two separate issues here.

One - Firing of Scott: ORU botched the PR on this no doubt. They did not handle this well in any way. Wilson looks weak in how he handled this. Nothing else to say on that front.

Two - Media Narrative: The narrative that immediately started after finding out of the firing is suspect. Why did the media immediately pounce on this 'tattoo' and 'faith test'? Instead of speculating or investigating who would be our next coach? Newflash: Doug Gottlieb doesn't have ORU's press releases on auto-refresh. And he was immediately tweeting about it when the story broke. The OSU connected media people were fed information - but by who? Not the school obviously. Who would the media try to get a statement from? Who has the most to gain from this twisted narrative? Occam's Razor - Sutton family. Sports writers know and trust head coaches over universities. Shocker I know.

However, I don't think it's entirely malicious intent. "My hands were tied" makes the 8-22 record more palatable to future employers. Getting fired from a low-major doesn't look good - people usually move up not out. But having an 'overly restrictive' low-major team with 'unreasonable expectations' makes you a victim.

[Bad Blood]

7 hours ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

The documents don't come close to reflecting what was initially claimed. So yes it was baseless.

 

Other than the words "faith test" I never saw a lot of specific things being claimed.

But the document is a test, and it does have a faith component. A faith test!

[vcboy2000]

Dlb78,

I'm curious, where did you get your "facts" to believe the media or Scott's side of the story?

If you say from people close to the program or from Scott himself, I don't see how that's any different from me believing a different narrative based on the completely contradictory accounts of Mike Carter. 

You call me a "Billy spin boy" but at least I'm willing to admit that Wilson screwed up in not meeting with Scott in person and waiting an additional day to schedule a press conference. You continue to posts as if Scott Sutton is a white knight in all of this. Where's the objectivity in that?

One more last thought: 

"Where are the facts?"  

You better believe I'll be the one asking that question the next time the media outlets throw out these editorial pieces laced with insinuation and bias as fact reporting. 

First Report: Scott was fired and had to find out on Twitter. Insinuating he had no idea this was coming and the university didn't have the decency to tell him. 

Uh no: He was talking to them weeks prior about his contract not being renewed. 

Second Report: Recent unreasonable recruiting restrictions (no tattoos and faith test) are the reason he couldn't win lately. 

Uh no: How could a faith test that recruits could score 0 in the faith column keep you from winning? 

How could a "no tattoo/cover your tattoo whatever" policy that exististed for a few months keep you from winning? 

Sorry. Not buying it. I'm done. 

[Former SID]

I'm absolutely speechless over some of the things I've read on this board in the last 12-18 hours. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for blindly believing the University's spin on this. I've known about the "Faith Test" for several years and I don't even live in Tulsa anymore. First heard about it in December of 2013. I thought the people telling me were joking. I laughed. Turns out the joke was me (and Scott).

Some of you are so overly indoctrinated into the way ORU conducts business that you can't take a step back and form an independent thought about this whole debacle. In conflict situations you NEVER take the whole word of just one side. And you certainly never take what management says at face value. Mike and Billy were in full CYA mode yesterday, as they should have been since they were the ones (Billy more likely than Mike) that are responsible for this being more than just the termination of a long-tenured employee. But when presented with evidence and facts that back up the rumors, you still don't want to believe it. It's amazing.

For those of you that think ALL of the media's information is coming from the Suttons... are you really that naive? Are you so foolish to think that no one else in the community knew these things? That no one else was anxious to come the Scott's defense? C'mon.

Bill Haisten didn't put his story together in two hours. He interviewed Bill Self about back the additional challenges being placed in front of Scott in February. Ben Johnson didn't just happen to receive a copy of the "Faith Test" an hour before yesterday's press conference. People have been aware of the additional hurdles facing the basketball program for a long time. The media narrative on this is not "suspect" as some have suggested. It's dead on.

Also, did none of you catch the fact that Billy said (paraphrasing) that he's been looking to make a change since he arrived at ORU? That was in June of 2013, in case you forgot. When asked what Scott could have done over the last four years to keep his job, Billy replied something about winning three Summit League titles. He might as well have said, "Nothing. I wanted him gone the day I got here and now he is." At least that would have been more honest. Amazing how you missed THAT part of the narrative.

When I worked at ORU I always thought we had some of the most uninformed fans in the country. Thanks for finally confirming that for me once and for all.

[EaglesFan]

IT’S SCOTT SUTTON’S FAULT????  This kind of defense to the ugly week of publicity for ORU smacks of “blame the victim.”    The accusations are based on suppositions that are as piecemealed together today as other facts were on Monday and Tuesday.   If you can blame-the-victim, then that justifies the inept way the entire episode has been handled.   Since when is the guy fired from a job – any job -- responsible for going public and managing the story-line? 

The ineptness that Wilson/Carter handled all this is obvious and well documented.  They’re the ones that didn’t recognize the importance of handling the announcement properly, having a communications plan that diffused part of the negative impact, having a spokesman who could answer reporter’s questions before they blew up in ORU’s face.  How did they overlook the negative impact of this kind of announcement?  When people don’t look at their own history – the Ken Hayes firing debacle – they are doomed to repeat it ... and they did. 

When Wilson/Carter finally did a news briefing – and terminated it before inquiring reporters can ask ALL their questions … what you see is the ‘statement” that they spent all day Tuesday composing.  It looks like the “blind man and the elephant” story … You catch a vision of the portion of the elephant that was “explained” by Wilson/Carter, only.   It isn’t the full picture, obviously.

Respect the news media a little, manage what they are probing/asking … and much of the black eye that ORU is receiving every day will get minimized.   Treat them indifferently and you’ll get what we are seeing today.   The investigative press will make a story if you do what Wilson/Carter did, and let them run wild with every factoid they come across.

So, blame Sutton if that makes you feel better about our school.  Blaming the victim is a tried-and-true method of winning a case in your own mind.  The victim will look guilty – for lack of immediate public answers.  In this case, however, it isn’t going to make the Wilson/Carter mismanagement of the episode any less punishing to ORU’s image.   ORU still has a lot of damage control to manage, but I’ll bet they still will act like “the story is over.”   It isn’t.

[theeagleman5]

Such a blunderous 6 weeks from this administration...look, sounds like Billy the Snake had decided long before the season ended in late February that Scott Sutton and his brother were history....so how hard would it have been to let the dust settle on the season for a few days and then the first week of March you meet with Scott and Carter and just tell Sutton that a change is going to be made....you thank him for all the years of service and schedule a press conference for the next day or two....then you meet with the team.....at the press conference you have everyone sitting there as adult Christians and announce the change and publicly thank Scott Sutton for everything he has done for ORU...no one would have questioned that after the few substandard seasons....this would have been the professional and ethical thing to do....then you cut Scott a nice check for his contract buyout and start the search for a new coach.....but no.....Billy W. decides to insult Coach Sutton with the offer he made....are you kidding me???.....fire the guy but tell him you want him to hang around for a year but oh yeah, fire your brother first....Billy is a dope and has no business running a University.....also, can't believe that Mike Carter went along with this.....the whole thing is Mickey Mouse.....can you blame the Suttons for being ticked off?...but God Bless Spencer Sutton for showing up at that team event last night....the Suttons have more class than anyone in the ORU administration who signed off on this debacle.....TheEagleman is embarrassed to be an ORU alum this week...I am 1500+ miles away and forced to respond to questions from people who are hearing these news reports all over the internet.....it's a friggin' disgrace........

[vcboy2000]

One correction to the above post. Scott's 'statement' to the media that he found out via Twitter doesn't contradict Mike Carter or Billy Wilson's statements made yesterday. 

Scott says he found out on Twitter. 

Mike Carter says they were in ongoing negotiations to not renew his contract for a week. Scott called to reject the offer on Monday morning.

Billy Wilson said that after the decision was made, multiple calls to Scott went unanswered and so a voicemail was left from a desire to get word to the players before it was leaked. 

[theeagleman5]

We haven't heard for OT on this in over 24 hours....he must be making a ton of phone calls and nailing down the true story....TheEagleman can't wait to hear what he has to say......

[dbl78]

14 minutes ago, vcboy2000 said:

One correction to the above post. Scott's 'statement' to the media that he found out via Twitter doesn't contradict Mike Carter or Billy Wilson's statements made yesterday. 

Scott says he found out on Twitter. 

Mike Carter says they were in ongoing negotiations to not renew his contract for a week. Scott called to reject the offer on Monday morning.

Billy Wilson said that after the decision was made, multiple calls to Scott went unanswered and so a voicemail was left from a desire to get word to the players before it was leaked. 

Negotiations had been going on for weeks - your implicit assumption is that Scott knew he was rejecting the final - how do you know that?

Billy must not be able to trust his staff, as they were the only people who knew that Scott was getting fired, and thus the only people who could leak.   

[WingMaaaan]

21 minutes ago, Former SID said:

I'm absolutely speechless over some of the things I've read on this board in the last 12-18 hours. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for blindly believing the University's spin on this. I've known about the "Faith Test" for several years and I don't even live in Tulsa anymore. First heard about it in December of 2013. I thought the people telling me were joking. I laughed. Turns out the joke was me (and Scott).

Some of you are so overly indoctrinated into the way ORU conducts business that you can't take a step back and form an independent thought about this whole debacle. In conflict situations you NEVER take the whole word of just one side. And you certainly never take what management says at face value. Mike and Billy were in full CYA mode yesterday, as they should have been since they were the ones (Billy more likely than Mike) that are responsible for this being more than just the termination of a long-tenured employee. But when presented with evidence and facts that back up the rumors, you still don't want to believe it. It's amazing.

For those of you that think ALL of the media's information is coming from the Suttons... are you really that naive? Are you so foolish to think that no one else in the community knew these things? That no one else was anxious to come the Scott's defense? C'mon.

Bill Haisten didn't put his story together in two hours. He interviewed Bill Self about back the additional challenges being placed in front of Scott in February. Ben Johnson didn't just happen to receive a copy of the "Faith Test" an hour before yesterday's press conference. People have been aware of the additional hurdles facing the basketball program for a long time. The media narrative on this is not "suspect" as some have suggested. It's dead on.

Also, did none of you catch the fact that Billy said (paraphrasing) that he's been looking to make a change since he arrived at ORU? That was in June of 2013, in case you forgot. When asked what Scott could have done over the last four years to keep his job, Billy replied something about winning three Summit League titles. He might as well have said, "Nothing. I wanted him gone the day I got here and now he is." At least that would have been more honest. Amazing how you missed THAT part of the narrative.

When I worked at ORU I always thought we had some of the most uninformed fans in the country. Thanks for finally confirming that for me once and for all.

Most people on this board are not thinking about this in binary terms. We've pointed out how crooked the University probably is and how much of an egomaniac Wilson is known to be. Yet two things can be true, correct? It's always easier to label one party evil and the other good. It's far more difficult to consider the nuance. If I have to put more blame on one over the other for how ugly this has become, I put it on the University. Naïveté is not considering that even "good people" will takes steps of self preservation when their livelihood is threatened. 

It's not helpful to split this board between Billy boys and Sutton sons. Before those comments started this was a fairly balanced discussion of varied opinions (mostly speculative) willing to hear opposing ideas. 

I would venture to say that those who have graduated from ORU want to see it succeed for a number reasons. None of which include seeing the singular success of any specific person: not Sutton or Wilson. It's bigger than that. 

[ORUalum]

on tatoos....

Quote

“I was there through the whole thing,” the source said. “At first, the president did not want tattoos. He’s old-school. … He just didn’t think it was right, it was a privilege to play at ORU, you represent something different.

“But as it went further up the totem pole and they got to the Board (of Trustees), they were like, ‘We’re not gonna do that. Times have changed. Things are different. We’re not gonna ask that of our student-athletes. And it sounds bad.’ So it quickly was not a big deal any more.

“So it was implemented for a little while — not implemented, but it was talked about, a change in recruiting and checking tattoos and all that stuff, but as quickly as it went up to the Board, it dissolved and it wasn’t a problem.”

 on the "faith test"

Quote

A source also said the school’s “Whole Person” campaign — a composite scorecard for incoming students based on academics, social skills and spiritual vitality, and for athletes, their athletic ability — presented no real problems in recruiting players the basketball coaches wanted.

 

John Hoover's full piece........VERY pro-Sutton article, but i thought those 2 nuggets were of interest since these were the 2 initial charges from the media.

[ORUalum]

59 minutes ago, Former SID said:

For those of you that think ALL of the media's information is coming from the Suttons... are you really that naive? Are you so foolish to think that no one else in the community knew these things? That no one else was anxious to come the Scott's defense? C'mon.

you are right, Doug Gottlieb's phone number is probably on the speed dial of everyone at 7777 S Lewis.  (within minutes of the firing....)

 

Why can't one believe that the Suttons wanted to put out the best spin possible for their next potential job AND that Wilson bungled the firing and probably was not a huge Sutton fan when he became president in 2013? 

[Dr. Cornelius]

1 hour ago, EaglesFan said:

ORU still has a lot of damage control to manage, but I’ll bet they still will act like “the story is over.”   It isn’t.

Sutton should hope the story is over. Carter is being more gracious to him than I would be.

[tmh8286]

2 hours ago, Former SID said:

When I worked at ORU I always thought we had some of the most uninformed fans in the country. Thanks for finally confirming that for me once and for all.

That's pretty harsh hyperbole spoken against your old ORU buddies, Former SID!!! 

 

[Cletus]

17 hours ago, ORUTerry said:

Ha - I was in the class of 1983 with Bob Hope as my commencement speaker and I can't remember anything he said to us.

A little levity on the aftermath of everything...

Hey ORU Terry, I just again listened to the the tape my mother made while my parents were in the Mabee Center on that graduation day in 1983.

Bob Hope also said that he was "glad to be back in OR's romper room, the Prayer Tower was the biggest golf tee in Tulsa, I just shook Oral Robert's hand and it healed my arthritis, and I can see why this is a religious institution--that must explain the burnt offerings in the cafeteria" (that was when it was SAGA).

OR was laughing all along with the good humor.

I even have a picture to prove it if you don't believe me. It is a little blurry but you can make out the two people in the picture. OR introduced him with the words

"A merry hear doeth good like a medicine." Prov. 17:22

That was in the day...

[Bad Blood]

2 hours ago, Former SID said:

For those of you that think ALL of the media's information is coming from the Suttons... are you really that naive? Are you so foolish to think that no one else in the community knew these things? That no one else was anxious to come the Scott's defense? C'mon.

Bill Haisten didn't put his story together in two hours. He interviewed Bill Self about back the additional challenges being placed in front of Scott in February. Ben Johnson didn't just happen to receive a copy of the "Faith Test" an hour before yesterday's press conference. People have been aware of the additional hurdles facing the basketball program for a long time. The media narrative on this is not "suspect" as some have suggested. It's dead on.

The most important thing in Hoover's article, maybe in all of the things being written and said about the situation, is this quote - "Have you ever heard of Scott Sutton treating someone poorly? No."

And when a person is like that - especially a coach in his position - there is no shortage of people waiting to line up behind him when crap goes down.

Where do you think Hoover and Haisten and Gottlieb's sources are coming from? Who gave Ben Johnson that document? 

Why are those people ALL supporting Scott Sutton?

Why are NONE of those people taking the other side?