donkeylarry Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Fatigue wasn't a factor. If 20 year olds can't play 45 minutes at a high level, then we have even further issues than the additional problems on the first set of issues. If fatigue WAS a factor, we should have been in better shape before we got here. Can't flip a switch and expect to take over. I don't see a Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan on our bench anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanDale Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Geez ... with fans like us, what coach needs enemies! I guess I'm more of a "glass half full" kind of person, but I think we should be applauding the job the coaches did to get us from 2-10 on Dec. 21 to finish the season at 16-15 and the fate to our league destiny in our own hands, at home, on the last regular night of the season. How many other coaching staffs in our league could do that? It would have been SO EASY for everyone (coaches, players, staff, etc.) to pack it in after Puerto Rico and finish midway back in the league's final standings. I'm sure there is a long list of coulda, woulda, shouldas that the coaching staff has compiled from last night's game. But the pure and simple fact is these are 18-23 year olds are determining most of the outcome of each game. Anybody want to let the pizza boy come do your job for a day and see how successful he is? I totally agree that from a coaches standpoint players "win" games and coaches "lose" them. I'd be absolutely shocked if our coaches ever did or say anything contrary to that. But in reality there are so many factors that determine the outcome you can't warp it up in such a neat little box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Please listen now... our coaching staff didn't lose the game. They didn't get out-rebounded by 11 tonight. They didn't miss 10 free throws. They didn't miss 15 three-pointers, and they didn't tell Jarvis to go 2-for-12 from the field. The coaches didn't get a 9-point lead and fail to close out the game. This game was identical to ULL, New Mexico, Murray State, UALR, both NDSU games. The key moments came at different times, but the elements were all there. Next year will be better. Trust me when I say that. HOWEVER, the coaching staff DID recruit and sign the student athletes who didn't box out, didn't practice their FT shooting enough when heavily fatigued and under pressure to make 'em, didn't shoot it well from behind the arc and didn't have the killer instinct to put the Rabbits away after we went on a 15-0 run to take a nine-point lead halfway through the second half. Yes, players make shots, but coaches can make them better shooters by teaching them how to play and putting them into position(s) to create open looks for high percentage scoring opportunities. And sorry bro, but poor FT shooting falls on coaching and preparation...no excuse for a poor team FT%; apparently we don't emphasize it enough in practice and/or practice FTs often enough in the right situations. All that said, I absolutely agree with you on the addition by subtraction thing...while I know many here love(d) Robert Jarvis (including my eleven-year-old son), his consistently inconsistent play not to mention his hair style and on-court antics/personality absolutely wore me smooth out. And hey, the bottom line is COACHES are paid to win games (not players, well maybe at places like Memphis players get paid but not at ORU)...but look, I'm absolutely not after any heads on a platter here...it is what it is, a horrible overtime loss to a bad team. We didn't get it done and I'm sure Coach Sutton and his staff feel way worse about the loss than even any of us. I hope it fires them up to come back harder and stronger next season with something to prove. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger and we're not dead yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Minyard Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanDale Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The fact that you even think that packing it in was an option is crazy. A first round loss to SDSU by ORU is just painful. There is no way to sugarcoat that crap we called basketball last night. I'm sure nobody is harder on Coach Sutton than myself. He'll get it back on track. First round losses at a program like ORU shouldn't be acceptable. Poor job of copying and pasting on my part ... packing it in should NEVER be an option of anyone who is paid to do whatever it is they're doing. I know better than to think that ever even crossed the coaches minds for a nano second. My intention was to recognize their ability to keep the guys playing so hard and not allow them to pack it in. And I totally agree with that last paragraph. Nothing about losing in the first round of the freakin' Summit League tourney is okay if we want to be a "premier" mid-major program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 BTW, the foul call on Marcus at the end of regulation was simply awful. Almost no contact at all. Would not have been called in the first 5 minutes. I saw the actual video replay of that play last night, ORUBB. Channel 6 had it and showed it in slow motion. Just another example of the WORST officiating in college atheltics. Can one of you stat geeks, pull the info and paste the three officials names and pictures on this thread? Possibly, even denote the official who blew his whistle on that play. We all need to see his face and know his name, when he comes to Mabee next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West-River Jack Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Our comments and opinions are colored by the love we have for ORU and the basketball program. Most people here are genuinely supportive of the coaching staff and players - we want them to succeed. We are ardent fans who attend/watch/listen to all the games and follow the statistics of each player, etc. Some of us know a few things about basketball - and some of us not so much. That does not disqualify us from voicing our opinion or perspective. This was a rebuilding year for ORU basketball - and next year will be too. We lacked a point guard and a secondary (primary?) outside threat to keep defenses honest against our inside game. Hopefully, that will be addressed in the upcoming recruiting period. Terry, As I read this post I thought about how much it could have been written by me or one of my fellow SDSU fans. You said a lot in these short lines. Most of us felt that the Jackrabbits played a lot of the season beneath their ability. Perhaps our team played a little above its ability on Saturday. That's the type of situation that might have allowed us to sneak up and take you by surprise. Here's to some good basketball between our two teams next season. P.S. Just for the record. Even though some of my fellow Jackrabbit fans disagree with me, I enjoy sports more without beer and without sitting next to fans that do enjoy sports with beer. I hope that the Summit League is more careful with their next contract and eliminates the beer sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkeylarry Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 We watched these same guys ref two games last night and the fact is they are JUST BAD refs. They literally let guys tackle each other yesterday, then turned it into a free throw contest for the last 5 minutes (to make sure everyone knew who was in control) and it was "bad call makeup call" on in. Should have seen Kampe & Hunter. Amazing to take the game away from the players so consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I saw the actual video replay of that play last night, ORUBB. Channel 6 had it and showed it in slow motion. Just another example of the WORST officiating in college atheltics. Can one of you stat geeks, pull the info and paste the three officials names and pictures on this thread? Possibly, even denote the official who blew his whistle on that play. We all need to see his face and know his name, when he comes to Mabee next year. Unfortunately we're stuck with the quality of officials we've got as long as we're in this league...disappointing but not surprising how pathetically poor these guys actually are. Quality officials in our region of the country are connnected with the Big Ten, Big 12, Missouri Valley and Horizon leagues...we MAY have a quality crew working the finals on Tuesday night because there aren't any games being played in the before mentioned leagues but unfortunately it is what it is guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Can one of you stat geeks, pull the info and paste the three officials names and pictures on this thread? "Stat geeks"?? Classic. Really know how to turn on the ol' charm there, don't ya big man? Bet that works wonders around the house: "Hey, wench - bring me a cold one, will ya??" But, we don't need no stinkin' pictures, just two names: Wegenke and Nowakowski. If they sound familiar, it's because they've been butchering our conference games for years. Two guys in the prime of life, who rather than moving up the ladder of success in D-1 basketball, are instead still mired in the Summit League. Gee, wonder why that is? Could it be they suck at what they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkeylarry Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Wegenke was standing by us on a timeout last night and I told him that his Mom must be extremely proud. Not only does she have one bad ref in the family, she has two. Hopefully those guys have sons who will proudly carry on the tradition for another generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Wegenke was standing by us on a timeout last night and I told him that his Mom must be extremely proud. Not only does she have one bad ref in the family, she has two. Hopefully those guys have sons who will proudly carry on the tradition for another generation. I used to distinguish in posts which twin I was railing on (Bart or Brett), but over the years I have learned it really makes no difference - they both stink. Once you've said "Wegenke", you've said it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 There is NO DOUBT in my mind, that some officials have a PERSONAL axe to grind against ORU. Maybe the Wegenke family are Jehovah's Witness? Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Maybe the Wegenke family are Jehovah's Witness? Seriously. Oh, c'mon now!! That's a bit harsh. Satan worshiper's, maybe - but that's it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasgrip Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Satan worshiper's, maybe - but that's it... Ah, nevermind...better not go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballmangc Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Wegenke was standing by us on a timeout last night and I told him that his Mom must be extremely proud. Not only does she have one bad ref in the family, she has two. Hopefully those guys have sons who will proudly carry on the tradition for another generation. Hilarious, whenever I get into it at the mabee center I usually asks the refs how they sleep at night with the calls they are making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManiacAlum Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 We watched these same guys ref two games last night and the fact is they are JUST BAD refs. They literally let guys tackle each other yesterday, then turned it into a free throw contest for the last 5 minutes (to make sure everyone knew who was in control) and it was "bad call makeup call" on in. Should have seen Kampe & Hunter. Amazing to take the game away from the players so consistently. Ah, I love the "bad call/makeup call". I think they see some guys on TV call it like that, so they do it to feel big-time too. --There was a horrible one in the NDSU game. Foul away from the ball against ORU (On Hardy, I think). Then before the players can even get set on the other end, they call a moving screen on NDSU. I'm thinking "Why even bother making the first call if you dont have the balls to stand there and listen to the coaches get in your ear on the other end?" Now, you've given two guys pointless personal fouls and wasted everyone's time. --How about establishing some consistency BEFORE the last few minutes of the game? --Whoever called the 3-pt plays at the end of the SDSU game should do some jail time. Please tell me if you honestly see a foul on either play... --Did Kai Williams play half of the 2nd half and all of overtime with 4 fouls and without ever leaving the floor??? Usually coaches would put their star player on the bench for at least a few minutes....unless Nagy knows something we don't. I'm not sayin'...I'm just sayin' --I hate to be "that guy" to b**ch about the refs after a loss, but the size of our team seems to be used against us in every game. Guys like Lewis, Ford and Hardy look scared to move when they get the ball because somebody is gonna run in front of them and flop.... Nobody, outside of Shaq, deserves to have that many offensive fouls called against them. This is Division I basketball!! If you can't stay on your feet and play us straight up in the post, then go play intramurals brother... The next time I see a Summit ref reward a freakin' POST player for falling down on defense like a woman after they've been leaning on our guys all night, I'm literally going to walk onto the court (ala the dude from the Providence game), make that official give me his whistle and tell him to sit in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkeylarry Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't think they do sleep at night. I think they are nocturnal creatures who seek to drain the blood and spirits of college athletes with their whistles night after night...home or afar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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