tmh8286 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/20/2024 at 10:09 AM, ORU40 said: In the current college game, you don't build a team over years you have a very compressed period of time to get a bunch of new guys heading the same direction. Which is why coach is looking so heavily in the portal and at JUCO guys and not HS players. You're comment got me thinking, ORU40 - what motivation do coaches now have to be seeking out high school players? I know there are always a small number that are impact players their first season, but relatively few are. They need time to develop and mature. But in the brave new world of college sports there is NO promise that the kid sitting on the bench that you're working to develop for the future will be in your stable next season. Coaches, by necessity, will be looking for players with something to offer THIS season. That may include some HS players, but not in the numbers we've seen in the past. I wonder if the effect of the current portal system will be fewer players being recruited out of high school, leading to a shortage of players in a few years. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglefan 21 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 9 minutes ago, Bogus Smith said: It also excludes the Valpo Sweet-16 run as well. No one in the current membership of the Summit League, besides ORU, has won a NCAA basketball tournament game. NDSU beat Oklahoma as a 12 seed back in 2013 or 2014. I believe they won a play in game as a 16 seed a few years later as well. However, no one has come close to bringing notoriety to the summit league like our sweet sixteen run. SDSU has had some of the better summit teams to reach the tournament but constantly choke on the big stage. I'm not sure if its better or worse to be consistently a top 2 seed every year in the summit but be unable to do anything in the tournament or be up and down like we have but make a deep run in the tournament. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 36 minutes ago, Eaglefan 21 said: NDSU beat Oklahoma as a 12 seed back in 2013 or 2014. I believe they won a play in game as a 16 seed a few years later as well. However, no one has come close to bringing notoriety to the summit league like our sweet sixteen run. SDSU has had some of the better summit teams to reach the tournament but constantly choke on the big stage. I'm not sure if its better or worse to be consistently a top 2 seed every year in the summit but be unable to do anything in the tournament or be up and down like we have but make a deep run in the tournament. NDSU beat OU in 2014 and North Carolina Central 2019 (play in game) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I was with some friends last night and a discussion of the portal came up. One, who was an athlete in college, expressed the view that college athletes should have the right to leave a program at any time for any reason. His argument (one that has gotten more strident with time) is that college athletes should have the right to leave a team at any time for any reason. He says that there is no job in America where a person does not have the right to leave for any reason, and it should be the same with athletes. With a twinkle in his eye, he said for it to be otherwise should be unconstitutional!! Another friend, an attorney, approached the question from an entirely different angle - from the NCAA's perspective. He said that an important part of any organization is to guarantee stability within that organization. They have the right to establish rules that seek to protect that stability. He argued that the system as it now stands is destabilized, and the NCAA and other ruling organizations have the right to enact rules to protect their member schools from chaos. At least I think I've expressed his argument. I believe he is a lurker on the board, and if I got his position wrong he can let me know. It was interesting to hear two very intelligent and knowledgeable sports fans debate the thorny topic of the portal, with completely opposite views. my only input was purely emotional: "It's messing up EVERYTHING!!!" Their arguments, on the other hand, were well thought out and well supported with facts. I guess we can only watch and see what happens with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 The reality is that only a very small percentage of student athletes bring value to their perspective universities. In my opinion what is going to end up happening is that scholarship opportunities are going to be cut starting with Olympic sports then possibly further depending on the institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 TMH has friends??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idig32 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 12 minutes ago, tmh8286 said: He says that there is no job in America where a person does not have the right to leave for any reason, and it should be the same with athletes. The problem is that this isn’t true. Professional sports is a good example. Professional athletes sign a contract with a team and if they want out of that contract, they don’t have a lot of recourse. They can refuse to play, but they don’t get paid as much (I think) and they can’t play for another team because they are under contract. They can demand a trade, but again they don’t have a lot of leverage, especially if they have multiple years left on their contract. Generally, we’ve seen that the player normally gets their way, but it normally is a long process and there is a definite cost. Right now, college athletes are getting the best of both worlds. They can be paid by NIL, but they can also leave whenever they want. The extreme example of this is the Iowa NIL situation where they received a commitment from a football player and paid him part of his NIL money (as part of a contract with a NIL sponsor). He then changed his mind and went to Alabama. I don’t think athletes will be able to do this for much longer. A wide open transfer portal and a unrestricted NIL market can’t coexist in the long run. Eventually, I think athletes are going to sign binding agreements with the NIL or school for specified time frames in order to receive benefits. Maybe that will result in the players unionizing, but I don’t see that as a foregone conclusion because this is a completely different situation than professional sports. In professional sports, each team is it’s own business, but they are a franchise of a single corporation (the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc…). Each franchise has to do business within the rules of the main corporation. In college, that’s not the case. Each athletic department is a separate corporation. I could be wrong (correct me if I am) but I don’t think players unionizing and then doing collective bargaining would work the same as professional sports. Who would they do collective bargaining with? They could unionize and then refuse to work with schools that won’t bargain with them, but then the SEC and Big 10 schools could refuse to work with unionized players. It’s all a big mess and I’ve written too much already. Suffice it to say that I don’t think it’s possible for the current unrestricted transfers and unlimited NIL stuff to continue for the long term. One or the other will have to stop. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Eaglefan 21 said: NDSU beat Oklahoma as a 12 seed back in 2013 or 2014. I believe they won a play in game as a 16 seed a few years later as well. However, no one has come close to bringing notoriety to the summit league like our sweet sixteen run. SDSU has had some of the better summit teams to reach the tournament but constantly choke on the big stage. I'm not sure if its better or worse to be consistently a top 2 seed every year in the summit but be unable to do anything in the tournament or be up and down like we have but make a deep run in the tournament. Good research.....I stand corrected. Agree that the Sweet 16 notoriety put the Summit League in a good light, but my point was intended to show that we need a league that will commit to increasing our exposure on a national stage (which is for another discussion thread). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll Eags New Era Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Looks like the Summit League will have another interesting year thanks to the portal. With SDSU's William Kyle in the portal and major talks on Twitter of Zeke Mayo following it means that they will have some huge spots to fill. North Dakota loses BJ Omat and a few others. ORU with some contributions to the portal as well. Haven't seen McBride's name in there which is a positive. Hoping he comes back and we can get some major contributors out of the portal with Springmann's deep recruiting ties. I'm really curious about Kansas City. If they are able to retain pieces and add some experienced scoring to the list I'd be interested to see them next year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Bogus Smith said: Good research.....I stand corrected. Agree that the Sweet 16 notoriety put the Summit League in a good light, but my point was intended to show that we need a league that will commit to increasing our exposure on a national stage (which is for another discussion thread). You’re sticking your neck out anytime you state a fact to this bunch, Bogus! Somebody will nail you every time! I always try to leave a hedge: “Somebody said,” “An announcer said last night,” “Two of my friends were arguing,” etc.! That way, I don’t have to take the HEAT! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 21 hours ago, theeagleman5 said: TMH has friends??? One of the great mysteries in life, eagleman!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Idig32 said: The problem is that this isn’t true. Professional sports is a good example. Professional athletes sign a contract with a team and if they want out of that contract, they don’t have a lot of recourse. They can refuse to play, but they don’t get paid as much (I think) and they can’t play for another team because they are under contract. They can demand a trade, but again they don’t have a lot of leverage, especially if they have multiple years left on their contract. Generally, we’ve seen that the player normally gets their way, but it normally is a long process and there is a definite cost. Right now, college athletes are getting the best of both worlds. They can be paid by NIL, but they can also leave whenever they want. The extreme example of this is the Iowa NIL situation where they received a commitment from a football player and paid him part of his NIL money (as part of a contract with a NIL sponsor). He then changed his mind and went to Alabama. I don’t think athletes will be able to do this for much longer. A wide open transfer portal and a unrestricted NIL market can’t coexist in the long run. Eventually, I think athletes are going to sign binding agreements with the NIL or school for specified time frames in order to receive benefits. Maybe that will result in the players unionizing, but I don’t see that as a foregone conclusion because this is a completely different situation than professional sports. In professional sports, each team is it’s own business, but they are a franchise of a single corporation (the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc…). Each franchise has to do business within the rules of the main corporation. In college, that’s not the case. Each athletic department is a separate corporation. I could be wrong (correct me if I am) but I don’t think players unionizing and then doing collective bargaining would work the same as professional sports. Who would they do collective bargaining with? They could unionize and then refuse to work with schools that won’t bargain with them, but then the SEC and Big 10 schools could refuse to work with unionized players. It’s all a big mess and I’ve written too much already. Suffice it to say that I don’t think it’s possible for the current unrestricted transfers and unlimited NIL stuff to continue for the long term. One or the other will have to stop. You are right, contracts change that situation, although my attorney friend was saying maybe not as much as most people think. Just depends on the nature of the agreement. But my other friend was referring to non-contractual work situations. Your other points are good ones. I wonder if, as someone has already suggested, we will eventually see non-student, contractually paid athletes representing schools. We're ALMOST to that point right now!! AT THE VERY LEAST there needs to be some sort of contractual agreement guaranteeing students that universities will live up to their end of the bargain, and that students will live up to theirs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Interestingly, William Kyle from SDSU entered the portal about 30 minutes ago. That will be a big loss for them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 The NCAA tournament still has two weeks to go and already 5 all conference players (3 first team and 2 second team members) have already entered the transfer portal from the Summit League. McBride and Mayo are the big names left from the top 10 guys. I am hoping Mayo is the next name to enter, K State could use his help next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU82 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Keenan, I did not realize you are a Kent State fan. jk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Kansas State would love to get McBride but instead SDSU can send them Mayo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 An interesting list from Mother Mouse https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/39762970/mens-college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2024-25-season One thing I noticed is that several teams are well represented on this top 50 list. This demonstrates that when a school decides to move on from a coach they are also potentially deciding to move on from a starter or two or three. Stanford 3 Belmont 3 Michigan 2 (both in the top 10) Louisville 2 The Summit League is also well represented with Frankie Fidler, 14 and B.J. Omat, 28. Tyree Ihenacho is included in the "next in line" section at the end of the list. A lot of talent potentially moving on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglefan 21 Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Going to be an interesting offseason in the Summit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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