Is Max Staying?

[dave]

3 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

I put him down… by last name: Vanover

Yes you did. My mistake.

[Old Titan]

It bears repeating that no rotation matters if it doesn't result in better defense.

 

[theeagleman5]

Heard that Ringo was a pretty decent lockdown defender....

[darrenj]

18 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

I honestly think ORU basketball is in fine hands with or without max. In my opinion, max is done at ORU, so I’ve already thought through lineups and the roster without Max in mind, and I think McBride, Jurgens, Thompson, Phipps, Weaver, Lufile, Vanover, Herron and Mwamba is a strong 9-man lineup, with Amboree and Williams playing limited minutes in case of injury. 

I would bet Demari Williams will end up playing a lot this year for ORU. He is a switchable athlete can cover a few different positions. I would think he will end up in the top 6 or 7 guys at the least. 

[oruvoice]

19 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

I honestly think ORU basketball is in fine hands with or without max. In my opinion, max is done at ORU, so I’ve already thought through lineups and the roster without Max in mind, and I think McBride, Jurgens, Thompson, Phipps, Weaver, Lufile, Vanover, Herron and Mwamba is a strong 9-man lineup, with Amboree and Williams playing limited minutes in case of injury. 

I'm not sure I am with you on that...

Max is an all-time ORU great and fantastic college player. Replacing him will not be easy. Even with him, we have been a few games over .500 the past two seasons. 

Without him and without major improvements on the defensive end, I don't share your optimism. 

[ORUTerry]

 

[GoldenEagleFan]

1 hour ago, oruvoice said:

Even with him, we have been a few games over .500 the past two seasons. 

That’s such an interesting way to evaluate a team who in the past two seasons won the conference championship, made the sweet sixteen, averaged 19 wins per year and has won nearly 70% of their conference games.

I find it funny when people use overall winning percentage for teams in 1-bid leagues, when in reality the only thing that matters is the conference season and conference tournament. Besides being a confidence booster before conference play,  the non-conference wins and losses is really only important for at-large teams looking to help their NCAA tournament seedling. 

[Idig32]

With or without Max, ORU should expect to compete for a conference championship. As far as I’m concerned, with the level of investment that is occurring in the program, a conference championship should always be the expectation.
 

The roster is as deep as we have ever been, at least since the great Dominique Morrison teams. However, as voice said, replacing one of the greatest players in school history, and arguably the best player at the school in the past 40 years, is not going to be easy. It seems like the transfers we are bringing in are going to help some of the defensive problems, but the team will have to make major adjustments on the offensive end if Max does end up leaving. 
 

Lastly, and this may be a little off-topic, but I was watching the Boston Celtics the other night, and it struck me that Max could probably become a Peyton Pritchard type player in the NBA if given the chance. They are similar body types and skill sets. Pritchard’s defense is much better, but offensively they are very similar players. Also, Pritchard was a 4-year college player at Oregon, so they are both older prospects. 

[oruvoice]

4 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

That’s such an interesting way to evaluate a team who in the past two seasons won the conference championship, made the sweet sixteen, averaged 19 wins per year and has won nearly 70% of their conference games.

I find it funny when people use overall winning percentage for teams in 1-bid leagues, when in reality the only thing that matters is the conference season and conference tournament. Besides being a confidence booster before conference play,  the non-conference wins and losses is really only important for at-large teams looking to help their NCAA tournament seedling. 

Well, that's one way to evaluate a team.

If you'd prefer, we are 22-11 (66%) in conference over the past 2 seasons, with arguably the best ORU player since the 1970's and you think taking him out of the mix won't cause us to miss a beat? 

Sorry, but I disagee and is a dis-service to Max. 

Let me phrase it another way...what was the program doing under Mills prior to the past two years, before the emergence of Max? 

[GoldenEagleFan]

24 minutes ago, oruvoice said:

and you think taking him out of the mix won't cause us to miss a beat? 

Sorry, but I disagee and is a dis-service to Max. 

Let me phrase it another way...what was the program doing under Mills prior to the past two years, before the emergence of Max? 

Didn’t say we wouldn’t miss a beat. Just said the program is in fine hands with or without Max. 
 

Considering almost half of the team that Mills inherited was made up of Division 2 players (Manek, Sutton, Miller, Ahmedic, McDaniels) I think the talent around the program continued to build upon itself every year since Mills’ takeover. I think that can be measured a lot of ways, but a pretty standard way is looking at the conference win total each year, and the conference tournament seedings each year. 
2018: 6th
2019: 5th
2020: 4th (semis)
2021: 4th (champion)
2022: 3rd (semis)

The whole point is the surrounding cast, the talent of the depth, has improved greatly, and is a big reason why I think losing Max won’t have a huge impact on the state of the program. Obviously Max is one of the best college players in the country and there will be some adjustment time. But looking at what other teams in the Summit League are losing, I think ORU’s roster is still in the top 2 of the league, even without Max. 

[oruvoice]

8 minutes ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

Didn’t say we wouldn’t miss a beat. Just said the program is in fine hands with or without Max. 
 

Considering almost half of the team that Mills inherited was made up of Division 2 players (Manek, Sutton, Miller, Ahmedic, McDaniels) I think the talent around the program continued to build upon itself every year since Mills’ takeover. I think that can be measured a lot of ways, but a pretty standard way is looking at the conference win total each year, and the conference tournament seedings each year. 
2018: 6th
2019: 5th
2020: 4th (semis)
2021: 4th (champion)
2022: 3rd (semis)

The whole point is the surrounding cast, the talent of the depth, has improved greatly, and is a big reason why I think losing Max won’t have a huge impact on the state of the program. Obviously Max is one of the best college players in the country and there will be some adjustment time. But looking at what other teams in the Summit League are losing, I think ORU’s roster is still in the top 2 of the league, even without Max. 

4th, 4th, and 3rd over the past three season WITH Max. And now top 2 without him?

Maybe you're right? I don't see it. 

[GoldenEagleFan]

2 minutes ago, oruvoice said:

4th, 4th, and 3rd over the past three season WITH Max. And now top 2 without him?

Maybe you're right? I don't see it. 

Fair post! 

[theeagleman5]

Well....consider this....ORUVoice doesn't like his alma mater any more.....so there's that.....haven't heard a positive word out of him since his departure from Mabee Center which most of us feel badly about........maybe he needs to go over to the TU board.....negative attitude seems to work at 11th and Harvard.....

[vcboy2000]

That's a little unfair, Eagleman. Max is a generational player. I don't think it's unreasonable or negative to think ORU would be down without him.

[Dr. Cornelius]

1 hour ago, vcboy2000 said:

That's a little unfair, Eagleman. Max is a generational player. I don't think it's unreasonable or negative to think ORU would be down without him.

Max stretches the floor so well. Will be difficult to replaces him when the time comes.

[theeagleman5]

TheEagleman is not disagreeing with your thinking VC....just tired of  the negative waves constantly VOICED by a certain poster ......but i still like the guy.....so I will move on if everybody else thinks I am being too harsh....

[Keenan Henderson]

Max is a great scorer putting up over 23 points a game the last two years.  Of course basketball is a team sport and it takes a team effort to win 20 games a year and go to the NCAA tournament. Even Jordan's early teams could not do much until Pippen, Rodman, etc. showed up.  When ORU had their miracle run in March 2021, the others played much better.  

Last year Lufile and McBride showed some glimpses of helping Max but a lot of the others really struggled.  So the main point is the others have to get better for ORU to win, even if Max returns.

[ORUIllini]

11 hours ago, ORob1 said:

I don’t think you’re too harsh, I just think you’re way too immature for a 60 something adult male. I don’t care how much you wager or how much beer you drink….I get it, you like to drink and bet on sports. Some of us like those things too but It’s old, Eagleman. Geeez….oh, and your talking in the third person all the freakin’ time!!!! Shut up once in a while! 

Rob

Eesh.....let's try and all just settle down. I may just take the summer off from here if this is where we are at on this forum.....