Mid-Major Top 25 a Joke on Summit Teams

[FargoBison]

Ok you didn't say that, it just seemed like you were trying to imply that NDSU had no top 150 wins when you made the statement that "IUPUI and ORU both actually have top 150 wins".

I watched Ohio play a few games this year, they are good but not anything spectacular. They are 6-5 afterall, with one of their best wins coming vs Valpo(a team you were blasting as being mediocre earlier). At least UCSB can hang their hat on their road win against UNLV.

I have no clue as to what you mean by SDSU being the largest school we have beaten. What are you talking about? Enrollment? The size of their cheerleaders?

No I don't count non-DI games, I don't even bother going to those games. I don't beg for invites into something called the CBI either.

[Grizz]

OMG IPFW is up 3 at Purdue, they are worthy.......7-4

[SDSUJacks]

I never popped off, all I said is that your resume wasn't any better than NDSUs. You were the guy who said NDSU didn't have any top 150 wins and made all the crazy statements about how ORU and IUPUI were disrespected somehow.

BTW I'm just fine with our schedule. Nice mix of games.

P.S. I don't count non-DI wins, IUPUI is 3-7. Ohio was a decent win I guess.

C'mon now you seriously don't believe NDSU and ORU's resume is the same? ORU has already played several big boys, hanging w/ Texas Tech and beating Utah.

The Gauchos is your signature win?

I'm not sure if SDSU belongs in the top 25. After starting 6-0 they lost 3 of the next 4 (now 3 of the last 5 after last nights win). That's enough to get you outta the top-25 if you're not top 10 to begin with.

I do wish the Mid-Major top-25 would get more love/attention. We had one media member knock it. But the others reminded him how it is a poll that compares you to your peers.

[ron]

OMG IPFW is up 3 at Purdue, they are worthy.......7-4

That was tongue-in-cheek right?

[89rabbit]

C'mon now you seriously don't believe NDSU and ORU's resume is the same? ORU has already played several big boys, hanging w/ Texas Tech and beating Utah.

The Gauchos is your signature win?

I'm not sure if SDSU belongs in the top 25. After starting 6-0 they lost 3 of the next 4 (now 3 of the last 5 after last nights win). That's enough to get you outta the top-25 if you're not top 10 to begin with.

I do wish the Mid-Major top-25 would get more love/attention. We had one media member knock it. But the others reminded him how it is a poll that compares you to your peers.

Big game Thursday as we take on #16 Minnesota.

[ManiacAlum]

Just to play devil's advocate-- you could argue that IPFW is the only team other than Oakland that deserves votes in this poll.

IPFW:

--IPFW hasn't beaten anyone good, but they technically don't have any "bad" losses yet (teams with RPI over 100). Valpo may end up being a bad loss, but Valpo just won at Oakland. They also played undefeated Cincinnati closer than anyone else has.

ORU:

--Half of ORU's wins are against Summit teams. Utah on the road is a good win, but Indiana State at home, Tulsa, OU and Texas Tech (who hasn't won since beating ORU) are all going to be bad losses.

NDSU:

--NDSU and IUPUI actually have a common opponent in UW-Green Bay. NDSU lost on the road and IUPUI won by 17 on a neutral floor i believe...also losing to Fresno State is a bad loss. But they do have the only other Summit road win by beating SDSU, and they beat UCSB who won at ranked UNLV.

SDSU:

--SDSU has the best record in the conference, but their best win is Iowa who has an RPI above 200. The D-I opponents they have beaten have a combined record of 13-35 and their SOS is over 300. Still, they won those games, which good teams do. But losing at home to NDSU hurts, as well as a double-digit home loss to UW-Milwaukee.

The bad losses are always going to outweigh good wins, especially at this time of year, when mid-majors play a lot of either really good teams or really bad ones. IPFW has played some pretty bad ones, but they have yet to lose...

[Old Titan]

Just to play devil's advocate-- you could argue that IPFW is the only team other than Oakland that deserves votes in this poll.

IPFW:

--IPFW hasn't beaten anyone good, but they technically don't have any "bad" losses yet (teams with RPI over 100). Valpo may end up being a bad loss, but Valpo just won at Oakland. They also played undefeated Cincinnati closer than anyone else has.

ORU:

--Half of ORU's wins are against Summit teams. Utah on the road is a good win, but Indiana State at home, Tulsa, OU and Texas Tech (who hasn't won since beating ORU) are all going to be bad losses.

NDSU:

--NDSU and IUPUI actually have a common opponent in UW-Green Bay. NDSU lost on the road and IUPUI won by 17 on a neutral floor i believe...also losing to Fresno State is a bad loss. But they do have the only other Summit road win by beating SDSU, and they beat UCSB who won at ranked UNLV.

SDSU:

--SDSU has the best record in the conference, but their best win is Iowa who has an RPI above 200. The D-I opponents they have beaten have a combined record of 13-35 and their SOS is over 300. Still, they won those games, which good teams do. But losing at home to NDSU hurts, as well as a double-digit home loss to UW-Milwaukee.

The bad losses are always going to outweigh good wins, especially at this time of year, when mid-majors play a lot of either really good teams or really bad ones. IPFW has played some pretty bad ones, but they have yet to lose...

Good stuff - should be interesting once everyone starts playing each other.

[89rabbit]

Sagarin Rank

By School:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt1011.htm

By Conference:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/ ... titialskip

70 Oakland-Mich.

130 North Dakota State

139 South Dakota State

162 IPFW

165 Oral Roberts

181 IUPUI

267 UMKC

292 Southern Utah

302 Western Illinois

345 Centenary

[ManiacAlum]

RPI:

75 Oakland-Mich.

118 IPFW

132 North Dakota State

153 Oral Roberts

210 South Dakota State

233 IUPUI

274 Southern Utah

277 UMKC

324 Western Illinois

345 Centenary

[89rabbit]

So it looks like the take away is that the Coaches that vote in the Mid-Major poll seem to be more aligned with Sagarin at this point then the RPI.

I have often heard that the RPI gets better as the season goes along. One might look at say Appalachian State with an RPI ranking of 50 and a record of 4-5 with wins over Tulsa, Samford, Robert Morris, and Montreat and wonder if they are really a top 50 program.

One thing is sure Centenary is really bad.

[ManiacAlum]

It does, but it's hard to take the Sagarin seriously at any point in the season really. It rewards playing soft schedules. But I guess it is something to look at.

For example:

Last year's final Sagarin rankings- IUPUI= 109, Oakland= 113

Last year's final RPI rankings- Oakland= 53, IUPUI= 86

Difference is Oakland was 0-5 against teams in top 50, IUPUI was only 0-2.

Also, current Strength of Schedule according to Sagarin:

15 Oakland

24 IUPUI

38 Oral Roberts

118 Southern Utah

141 North Dakota State

143 Centenary

279 IPFW

302 Western Illinois

309 South Dakota State

343 UMKC

Teams in conferences like the Summit need to be concerned with aligning themselves at the top of the conference standings, not the Sagarin anyway.

[Old Titan]

It does, but it's hard to take the Sagarin seriously at any point in the season really. It rewards playing soft schedules. But I guess it is something to look at.

For example:

Last year's final Sagarin rankings- IUPUI= 109, Oakland= 113

Last year's final RPI rankings- Oakland= 53, IUPUI= 86

Difference is Oakland was 0-5 against teams in top 50, IUPUI was only 0-2.

Also, current Strength of Schedule according to Sagarin:

15 Oakland

24 IUPUI

38 Oral Roberts

118 Southern Utah

141 North Dakota State

143 Centenary

279 IPFW

302 Western Illinois

309 South Dakota State

343 UMKC

Teams in conferences like the Summit need to be concerned with aligning themselves at the top of the conference standings, not the Sagarin anyway.

Great stuff, MA - you're turning into a regular stat geek!!

[89rabbit]

Teams in conferences like the Summit need to be concerned with aligning themselves at the top of the conference standings

Agreed, I am looking forward to the conference race and tournament.

[ManiacAlum]

Me too:

Summit standings-

Team Record

IPFW 2-0

Oakland 2-0

Oral Roberts 2-0

North Dakota State 1-0

Western Illinois 1-1

IUPUI 1-1

South Dakota State 0-1

UMKC 0-2

Southern Utah 0-2

Centenary 0-2

So are we talking Mid-major rankings or Sagarin rankings or the conference race? I kid, I kid

[89rabbit]

Me too:

Summit standings-

Team Record

IPFW 2-0

Oakland 2-0

Oral Roberts 2-0

North Dakota State 1-0

Western Illinois 1-1

IUPUI 1-1

South Dakota State 0-1

UMKC 0-2

Southern Utah 0-2

Centenary 0-2

So are we talking Mid-major rankings or Sagarin rankings or the conference race? I kid, I kid

All I know is I am happy at 8-3 with wins over Iowa and Nevada.

[ManiacAlum]

Great stuff, MA - you're turning into a regular stat geek!!

Thanks! If only I could have applied some of that effort and research into my studies

[ManiacAlum]

All I know is I am happy at 8-3 with wins over Iowa and Nevada.

Really?

[ManiacAlum]

I'm happy being 2-0 in conference play.