SOLO_Gold Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 You may be right, but consider this: claustrophobic gyms and fields in smaller towns scattered across Texas and Louisiana, plus stiffer competition, would likely translate to fewer wins for all sports, not as many NCAA appearances, and less publicity for the school nationwide. How is that good for ORU? You're a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Yes, he definitely has a negative slant on things...but OT is definitely no moron..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Lateral Move: Southland Shocker, but with all due respect I completely disagree with you on this, OT... (1) there are some good basketball coaches in the Southland and overall better programs (i.e., name THE marquee Summit League match-ups for us on our home basketball schedule now that Valpo is gone...Southland membership would deliver the following: UTSA, Sam Houston State, UTA, Stephen F Austin just off the top give us FOUR much better league games to market from a match-up standpoint...plus all four of those programs are better than any other program in the Summit League) (2) much more affordable travel costs across the board for ALL sports teams (3) much better baseball competition (4) we actually already recruit in Texas...league membership with Texas schools only improves exposure on several levels from that standpoint (5) it's fun to have a Maverick-like opinion for the sake of meaningful discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'd move to the Southland in a hot second if I was Mike Carter and had the chance. Think about how much money we'd save on travel. Plus, it'd be so much easier for students and alumni to get to many of the road conference games. Plus, I dunno much about it but I'm guessing the baseball conference is a little more competitive. ORU Eli = intelligent and insightful young man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 You may be right, but consider this: claustrophobic gyms and fields in smaller towns scattered across Texas and Louisiana, plus stiffer competition, would likely translate to fewer wins for all sports, not as many NCAA appearances, and less publicity for the school nationwide. How is that good for ORU? You're right again, OT...so much for the "anyone, anywhere, anytime" scheduling concept. If you're a glass is half-full guy you think, "why not move to the Southland and help make it the NEXT West Coast Conference?"...Gonzaga's not complaining about the St. Mary's, Pacific's and now the Santa Clara's and University of San Diego's being "too competitive" or having a less than excellent gym...a rising tide lifts all boats my man so playing tougher teams may translate to a few more league road losses but also brings with it more tickets sold to see more competitive games against these same teams at the Mabee Center and an opportunity to recruit more kids from the Lone Star state. Confidence is the key to every lock and if we don't believe we can go win consistently in a Southland Conference gym then we really have no business playing D-I athletics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 You're a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you? I believe you've just read OT's mail senior08! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 For crying out loud, are you serious?? Are you actually comparing the potential of the Southland Conference to the West Coast Conference?? The West Coast conference gets to draw from fans, media, and sponsors in places like Spokane, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles. The Southland, on the other hand, pulls some of these mega-markets: San Marcos, TX Conway, AR Lake Charles, LA Thibadeaux, LA Natchitoches, LA Huntsville, TX Hammond, LA Nacogdoches, TX Have you ever been to any of these places? Tried to find a decent hotel? A good meal? An airport within 100 miles? And before you mention the remaining four larger towns in the Southland (Beaumont, Arlington, San Antonio, and Corpus Christi), I can bet you money the last time any of the major papers in the area (Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, etc.) put any of those guys on the front page of the sports section, it was because they lost by 40 to a Big XII team. One thing the Summit League has to offer is some decent markets: Kansas City, Detroit, Indianapolis, Tulsa - heck, even Fargo is a better place to play a game than 75% of the Southland Conference! You really think we're going to fill the Mabee Center playing the likes of Nicholls State, McNeese State, Central Arkansas, and Texas State a home game apiece every year? I'll compromise with you: I think ORU should join the West Coast Conference, if asked. But the Southland Conference? The only times we would ever be mentioned in a newspaper outside the former Republic Of Texas would be if we made the NCAA basketball tournament, or advanced to the College World Series. P.S. We've always recruited Texas because it was the closest best place - but due to recent successes, we've been able to expand our recruiting base. And the cities that we currently play in have started to pay off: we have two players from Kansas City on the roster right now, which is the same number we have from Texas - and California - and Oregon - and Maryland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 This is getting good....OT and his +62 rating going toe to toe with Golden Boy and his -1.....and from what i see...it's too close to call...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I'm not all that fired up about the Southland Conference, but it is a situation similar to when you have to buy 10 things to get the 3 you want. There are at least 3 or 4 legitimately higher quality teams in the Southland than any in the Summit with the exception of ORU. Plus, it does not have worthless destinations such as Southern Utah, and the North and South Dakota States that are money-sucking, energy-draining, recruiting dry holes. PS. Spent several days in Hammond, LA - stayed in a nice hotel, and ate at some good restaurants! PPS. Airport - N'Orleans - just over Lake Pontchartrain. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Since the men's NCAA basketball tournament expanded to 64/65 teams in in 1986, the champion of the Southland Conference has never garnered better than a #13 Seed, and nothing better than a #14 since 1995: 1986 - #13 La-Monroe 1987 - #14 Louisiana Tech 1988 - #15 North Texas 1989 - #16 McNeese State 1990 - #15 La-Monroe 1991 - #15 La-Monroe 1992 - #15 La-Monroe 1993 - #13 La Monroe 1994 - #15 Texas State 1995 - #13 Nicholls State 1996 - #15 La-Monroe 1997 - #16 Texas State 1998 - #16 Nicholls State 1999 - #16 Texas-San Antonio 2000 - #16 Lamar 2001 - #16 Northwestern State 2002 - #14 McNeese State 2003 - #15 Sam Houston State 2004 - #16 Texas-San Antonio 2005 - #15 Southeastern La. 2006 - #14 Northwestern State 2007 - #15 Texas A&M-Corpus Christi 2008 - #16 Texas-Arlington Believe it or not folks, there may be worse things than playing basketball in the Summit League. Given the emphasis on improving schedules within the conference, the influx of new coaches at the schools that have been down, and the addition of the two land-grant schools from the Dakotas, the Summit League seems poised for improvement in the next five to ten years. On the other hand, it would appear that the Southland Conference, at least in the eyes of the NCAA Selection Committee, has been in steady decline the past 15 years, from an already tenuous position. Is that what we want to join? If "a rising tide lifts all boats", doesn't it also stand to reason that a receding tide lowers the yachts right along with the dinghies? IT'S A LATERAL MOVE - AT BEST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Minyard Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I thought your original argument was that the Summit League was our best option since it was the most winnable option for us. Your last post makes it seem as if the Southland would be even easier for us to win the league. I'm willing to bet that the Southland has more NCAA Tournament wins in the last 10 years, and that's really all that matters in this argument. What league would help ORU win NCAA Tournament games? I think the Summit League is our best option right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballmangc Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 This topic has been argued every year. We aren't moving conferences right now. We just have to use what we have. I think everyone would agree we would want to move to the Missouri Valley but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I thought your original argument was that the Summit League was our best option since it was the most winnable option for us. Your last post makes it seem as if the Southland would be even easier for us to win the league. I'm willing to bet that the Southland has more NCAA Tournament wins in the last 10 years, and that's really all that matters in this argument. What league would help ORU win NCAA Tournament games? I think the Summit League is our best option right now. I didn't mean to imply we couldn't/wouldn't dominate the Southland in men's basketball - I'm just not convinced that would be anything to crow about, and it might come at the cost of a decent NCAA seed, going everywhere in a bus, and playing in crummy towns and gyms with two-bit, homer referees. The Southland has one win since '86 in the NCAA tournament - Northwestern upset Iowa a couple of years back. Northwestern also won the "Play-In Game" a couple of years before that - does that count? In contrast, the Mid-Con/Summit has NCAA wins from Cleveland State, UW-Green Bay, Northern Iowa, Southwest Missouri State, and Valpo in that time, along with a "Play-In" win from Oakland. I have to admit it: the Summit League has kind of grown on me over the years, at least in comparison to the Southland Conference. It has it's advantages. Needless to say, I would favor a jump to the Missouri Valley, Horizon or Sunbelt in a heartbeat. And, as for the Southern Utah trip: true, Cedar City is not an easy "get to" and it is at high altitude, but the coaching staff has figured out how to temper those factors somewhat by staying in Las Vegas the night before and after the game, taking a bus up and back on game day. Seems to have worked out pretty well - we've won our last four games there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 If "a rising tide lifts all boats", doesn't it also stand to reason that a receding tide lowers the yachts right along with the dinghies? Here we go again with the glass is half-empty mantra... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (1) And before you mention the remaining four larger towns in the Southland (Beaumont, Arlington, San Antonio, and Corpus Christi), I can bet you money the last time any of the major papers in the area (Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, etc.) put any of those guys on the front page of the sports section, it was because they lost by 40 to a Big XII team. (2) One thing the Summit League has to offer is some decent markets: Kansas City, Detroit, Indianapolis, Tulsa - heck, even Fargo is a better place to play a game than 75% of the Southland Conference! (3) You really think we're going to fill the Mabee Center playing the likes of Nicholls State, McNeese State, Central Arkansas, and Texas State a home game apiece every year? (1) If you want to throw stats around, please check Stephen F Austin, Sam Houston State and UTA men's basketball scores vs. Big 12 teams from this past season....or just ask OU, Texas Tech and OSU how competitive those teams actually are... SFA not only won at OU, but at San Diego (West Coast Conference tournament champion, NCAA 2nd round) and at SMU (CUSA) and lost in the NIT first round AT eventual NIT runner-up UMASS. Sam Houston State only lost one (1) non-conference game (at San Diego State from the Mountain West by one point in overtime) and not only beat Texas Tech and Fresno State but also won at Wisc-Milwaukee (Horizon), at St. Louis Univ (A-10), at Loyola-Marymount (WCC). UTA went 8-2 in their pre-conference schedule with road nice wins at Wichita State and at Arkansas-Little Rock and tight road losses by 5 at Oklahoma State and by 3 at TCU. Of course UTA also lost in the NCAA first round to Memphis by 24. (2) Again with all due respect I submit to you that not one single front page story in any of the respective large market fish wraps has been dedicated to any of our before mentioned Summit League brethren (UMKC, Oakland, and IUPUI)...although I am personally quite fond of two of those three cities (sorry Detroit, I'm just not a Mo-town kind of guy I guess), unfortunately Summit League athletic events aren't headline news in any of those cities. And if you're going to mention the appealing Summit League destinations you have to throw in the Macomb, Illinois and Fort Wayne, Indiana's of the league too; and again sorry, but there's no way to spin a trip to the Dakota's in the middle of winter as a positive. (3) Bottom line is still the bottom line...top to bottom including the entire league membership from both leagues, we'd sell more tickets to a schedule featuring Southland Conference teams than we currently do with a Summit League home slate. Bringing teams into the Mabee Center who will actually compete and will have an opportunity to knock us off makes for a more marketable entertainment option than offering "Joe college basketball fan" the opportunity to buy $17 tickets to watch ORU play great and win by 40 or play sloppy basketball and win by 15 or 20 against an inferior Summit League team outside of Valpo previously or IUPUI in today's world. By far the most exciting and entertaining basketball games to watch the last few years at the Mabee Center were the two Utah State games including an ESPN bracket buster, the TU game and Creighton bracket buster game along with the IUPUI game from this past season. I'd rather see us be challenged by a good team and lose a heart breaker than win by ridiculous margins against inferior opponents. It's pretty clear the Southland offers more competitive teams than the Summit League does top to bottom and I haven't even mentioned Brooks Thompson's the head coach at UTSA and because of that alone they'd arguably be a very attractive draw on our home schedule. To me, I'm about selling tickets and I believe it's clear people are much more interested in paying money to see a competitive basketball game than they are in watching a highly predictable blowout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm not all that fired up about the Southland Conference, but it is a situation similar to when you have to buy 10 things to get the 3 you want. There are at least 3 or 4 legitimately higher quality teams in the Southland than any in the Summit with the exception of ORU. AMEN BROTHER AMEN!!! You get it, Larry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 This is getting good....OT and his +62 rating going toe to toe with Golden Boy and his -1.....and from what i see...it's too close to call...... Well eagleman, this poll has a margin of error of +/- 60 points that has to be considered...Vegas favors facts over feelings in this exchange so I'm confident in my position on this matter. And for the record, being a no spin kind of guy, the lower my rating remains here the more true it feels...a high approval rating in such a highly biased forum just wouldn't feel quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 "To me, I'm about selling tickets and I believe it's clear people are much more interested in paying money to see a competitive basketball game than they are in watching a highly predictable blowout. " Like I've quoted before, I heard an NBA coach say one time, "If you can't draw a crowd with your team, then draw a crowd with THE OTHER GUY'S team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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