Old Titan Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (1) If you want to throw stats around, please check Stephen F Austin, Sam Houston State and UTA men's basketball scores vs. Big 12 teams from this past season....or just ask OU, Texas Tech and OSU how competitive those teams actually are... SFA not only won at OU, but at San Diego (West Coast Conference tournament champion, NCAA 2nd round) and at SMU (CUSA) and lost in the NIT first round AT eventual NIT runner-up UMASS. Sam Houston State only lost one (1) non-conference game (at San Diego State from the Mountain West by one point in overtime) and not only beat Texas Tech and Fresno State but also won at Wisc-Milwaukee (Horizon), at St. Louis Univ (A-10), at Loyola-Marymount (WCC). UTA went 8-2 in their pre-conference schedule with road nice wins at Wichita State and at Arkansas-Little Rock and tight road losses by 5 at Oklahoma State and by 3 at TCU. Of course UTA also lost in the NCAA first round to Memphis by 24. (2) Again with all due respect I submit to you that not one single front page story in any of the respective large market fish wraps has been dedicated to any of our before mentioned Summit League brethren (UMKC, Oakland, and IUPUI)...although I am personally quite fond of two of those three cities (sorry Detroit, I'm just not a Mo-town kind of guy I guess), unfortunately Summit League athletic events aren't headline news in any of those cities. And if you're going to mention the appealing Summit League destinations you have to throw in the Macomb, Illinois and Fort Wayne, Indiana's of the league too; and again sorry, but there's no way to spin a trip to the Dakota's in the middle of winter as a positive. (3) Bottom line is still the bottom line...top to bottom including the entire league membership from both leagues, we'd sell more tickets to a schedule featuring Southland Conference teams than we currently do with a Summit League home slate. Bringing teams into the Mabee Center who will actually compete and will have an opportunity to knock us off makes for a more marketable entertainment option than offering "Joe college basketball fan" the opportunity to buy $17 tickets to watch ORU play great and win by 40 or play sloppy basketball and win by 15 or 20 against an inferior Summit League team outside of Valpo previously or IUPUI in today's world. By far the most exciting and entertaining basketball games to watch the last few years at the Mabee Center were the two Utah State games including an ESPN bracket buster, the TU game and Creighton bracket buster game along with the IUPUI game from this past season. I'd rather see us be challenged by a good team and lose a heart breaker than win by ridiculous margins against inferior opponents. It's pretty clear the Southland offers more competitive teams than the Summit League does top to bottom and I haven't even mentioned Brooks Thompson's the head coach at UTSA and because of that alone they'd arguably be a very attractive draw on our home schedule. To me, I'm about selling tickets and I believe it's clear people are much more interested in paying money to see a competitive basketball game than they are in watching a highly predictable blowout. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......oh, finished? Like I was saying: lateral move. Next question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 "To me, I'm about selling tickets and I believe it's clear people are much more interested in paying money to see a competitive basketball game than they are in watching a highly predictable blowout. " Like I've quoted before, I heard an NBA coach say one time, "If you can't draw a crowd with your team, then draw a crowd with THE OTHER GUY'S team." Yep, I can just see 'em lining up now for tickets to see Nicholls State and Central Arkansas. When Lamar played here recently, wasn't it practically standing room only in the Mabee Center? For sure, TMH would be the first one in line for those Nicholson seats to see his favorite team, Stephen Frickin' Austin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKC Eagle Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 The season cannot get here soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Yep, I can just see 'em lining up now for tickets to see Nicholls State and Central Arkansas. When Lamar played here recently, wasn't it practically standing room only in the Mabee Center? For sure, TMH would be the first one in line for those Nicholson seats to see his favorite team, Stephen Frickin' Austin... Oh, yeahhh . . . Wait a minute - is it okay for me to say that on the board, or am I going to get hammered by ORUBB again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLO_Gold Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Say it aint so TMH SFA is your favorite team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Oh, yeahhh . . . Wait a minute - is it okay for me to say that on the board, or am I going to get hammered by ORUBB again??? No, but just leave Marge and Jerry Lundegaard at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Say it aint so TMH SFA is your favorite team? That's a little sarcasm going on there, senior. I shudder at the mention of the name of Stephan Freaking Austin (I get in trouble using the word "freaking" at home, but I can use it on the board, right?). Goes back to a little game on Dec. 14, 2002 . . . but don't get me started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLO_Gold Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Ah ha! Chalk it up to a rare ignorant moment - it'll never happen again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 When ORU was looking for a league home about 12 years ago, the Southland Conference decided that ORU was NOT a good fit for them. At the time, if I remember correctly, all of their member schools were public institutions, and they basically said that they weren't interested in adding a private school at that time. Since then, they have added 1 or 2 teams, including Texas A&M Corpus-Christi. They now have 12 teams, and I don't think it would make any sense for them to expand beyond 12 teams. I always suspected that they felt that ORU had the potential to dominate their conference down the road, so they were gun shy to upset the apple cart by adding ORU. So, I do not envision an invitation to the Southland Conference anytime soon. From a financial standpoint, travel would be cheaper in the Southland, but I don't believe that Texas and Louisiana state directional schools would put any more fannies in the seats than Summit League schools. I also like the idea of having a presence in larger market cities, as was mentioned earlier, because that gives your conference a better up-side for exposure if the conference improves and begins to gain more respect. Looking at the RPI ratings from the last 2 years for each of the conferences, it looks like they are fairly similar. Summit 2008 RPI rank 22nd Top 2 RPI teams 53rd, 70th Mid-Con 2007 RPI rank 22nd Top 2 RPI teams 87th, 125th Southland 2008 RPI rank 19th Top 2 RPI teams 64th, 99th Southland 2007 RPI rank 26th Top 2 RPI teams 80th, 115th Looking at the Sagarin ratings from the last 2 years, it looks like the Summit League was a little bit stronger. Summit 2008 Sagarin rank 20th Top 2 teams 70th,77th Teams ranked 200+ 6 of10 Summit 2007 Sagarin rank 17th Top 2 teams 102, 136 Teams ranked 200+ 3 of 8 Southland 08 Sagarin rank 22nd Top 2 teams 93, 123 Teams ranked 200+ 7 of 12 Southland 07 Sagarin rank 25th Top 2 teams 85, 132 Teams ranked 200+ 9 of 12 It is really nice to have 18 guaranteed games each year, including 9 guaranteed home games. In the Southland, there are 16 league games, and therefore 8 guaranteed home games. There's really not that much of a difference there, but a 13th team would completely mess up their system, so this comparison is probably moot. I'll take the Summit League, because at best the Southland would be a lateral move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'll take the Summit League, because at best the Southland would be a lateral move. What he said. In a rising tide, a falling tide, a Crimson Tide, or New Improved Tide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 OK. Southland's out. Three more possibilities to go. Sunbelt anyone? What's new on the Horizon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 OK. Southland's out. Three more possibilities to go. Sunbelt anyone? What's new on the Horizon? Horizon, no. Sunbelt? Hmmm, makes some sense geographically (UALR, North Texas, Arkansas State) and the long distance trips aren't any worse than what we have now. But with 14 teams and FBS Football (sort of), something will have to change in order for them to even consider us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Bringing teams into the Mabee Center who will actually compete and will have an opportunity to knock us off makes for a more marketable entertainment option than offering "Joe college basketball fan" the opportunity to buy $17 tickets to watch ORU play great and win by 40 or play sloppy basketball and win by 15 or 20 against an inferior Summit League team outside of Valpo previously or IUPUI in today's world. By far the most exciting and entertaining basketball games to watch the last few years at the Mabee Center were the two Utah State games including an ESPN bracket buster, the TU game and Creighton bracket buster game along with the IUPUI game from this past season. I'd rather see us be challenged by a good team and lose a heart breaker than win by ridiculous margins against inferior opponents. To me, I'm about selling tickets and I believe it's clear people are much more interested in paying money to see a competitive basketball game than they are in watching a highly predictable blowout. I am a bit shocked to read, GB, that you still have not taken account of the fact that this year especially, we could quite possibly get our butts kicked by the likes of NDSU, Oakland and perhaps IUPUI. The Summit League is getting so much better that I hope that soon we will not be starting to lament the fact that the Summit League has gotten so good. We have to give the Summit League teams that are taking great strides in their programs the same respect that we give old traditional programs with the same rbi's. If, and I do hope it is a big if, NDSU wins the Summit conference tournament, they may be the first team to do so in their first year of NCAA Division 1 post-regular season eligibility. I warrant that that would garner a lot of national attention, particularly if they somehow manage to get beyond the first round in March. Now, again, I hope that this does not happen but the potential is certainly there. These teams are making these strides without winning the conference tournament in the past four years. If they somehow start sharing this honour with us, look out. Don't worry about the Summit. I predict that the Summit will leave Southland in the dust in the next five years. The levels are rising folks, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I also like the idea of having a presence in larger market cities, as was mentioned earlier, because that gives your conference a better up-side for exposure if the conference improves and begins to gain more respect. Now Jason, you absolutely just defined yourself the quintessential glass is half-full guy! You're right though, a move to the Southland right now is highly improbable because with twelve (12) league members already we're as good as shut out... Guys, guys, guys...let's be honest here and admit that outside of IUPUI (driven mainly by the personality of their controversial head coach Ron Hunter) and whoever our homecoming opponent is, the Summit League schedule just isn't a very sexy product to sell. When people hear Oakland they think the NFL Raiders...not Coach Kampe (although I personally really like the guy). I agree, the Southland offers more of the same, however I submit to you that the top third of the Southland is by far better than what we have where we're at. And Jason you said it, we would save tremendous amounts of money in the Southland compared to the Summit so if we never sold a single ticket more than we sell now with our Summit League schedule, end game we'd still be significantly ahead from a NET revenue standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Horizon, no. Sunbelt? Hmmm, makes some sense geographically (UALR, North Texas, Arkansas State) and the long distance trips aren't any worse than what we have now. But with 14 teams and FBS Football (sort of), something will have to change in order for them to even consider us. I guess we're just going to have to pickup football as another sport!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 What would the negatives be against the Horizon League, if the opportunity came along? There are currently 10 teams, so someone else would have to joint also. 5 of the 10 teams are old Mid-Con teams. 2 are church-affiliated, or at least used to be. Looks like they are all in largely populated areas. They are all in the upper mid-west, so we'd want to play some games down in Tejas a couple of times a year I would guess. I just don't see a lot of negatives - maybe I'm too positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanDale Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 What would the negatives be against the Horizon League, if the opportunity came along? There are currently 10 teams, so someone else would have to joint also. 5 of the 10 teams are old Mid-Con teams. 2 are church-affiliated, or at least used to be. Looks like they are all in largely populated areas. They are all in the upper mid-west, so we'd want to play some games down in Tejas a couple of times a year I would guess. I just don't see a lot of negatives - maybe I'm too positive. There's no way the horizon would add us if they were to again expand. What all those teams love about their conference is that it's a bus league. Add us to the mix and that goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 You're right - we'd stick out like a sore thumb. Next. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Horizon_League_map.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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