ESPN Ranks College Basketball Programs Since 1984 - ORU Ranks 124th

[Bogus Smith]

He was basically the sacrificial lamb in the wake of the Ken Hayes firing - he was removed in spring of '83 and was replaced by Larry Cochell.  He then went to Austin Peay, and brought Lake Kelly back to Clarksville a year later in one of the few times on the D-1 level where re-hiring a former successful coach has paid off for a school.  Ken Trickey then hired him back to ORU in 1991 as associate AD to spearhead the return to NCAA status from the NAIA hiatus, and he retired in 1993, just after the hiring of Bill Self.

His first official business when he came back as AD in 1991 was to meet with the NCAA to determine if a return by ORU to D-1 status would result in an immediate investigation and/or probation for the alleged infractions that were rumored to have forced ORU into the NAIA in the first place in 1989 under then AD Jack Wallace.  The NCAA investigator famously replied that they wouldn't bother:  two years at the NAIA level, along with the several years required to re-attain NCAA status, was punishment enough. 

And they were right... 

That whole time in the 80's - 1993 was such a debacle for us, OT.  It's hard to believe that we survived through all of that.  First we fire your Dad after others make the decision to fire Ken Hayes at an untimely point in the year.  Larry did a good job of trying to keep things going, but when he didn't do what the family wanted (to reduce costs by eliminating a stellar golf program), Ted Owens was there to save the day as he had always wanted to be an AD.  He takes the job as AD after one year as the head basketball coach and eliminates the golf program.  Some on the Titan Club board didn't take too kindly to this (including one of our beloved administrators today) and they go raise the money at Southern Hills needed to start a men's golf program at TU.  Bill Brogden remains TU's first and only men's golf coach today.

Ted also decides that he needs to hire Ken Trickey as his assistant coach in his second year as head basketball coach because he's busy being an AD.  Ken eventually gets the confidence of the family and Ted is summarily fired after his second season (which was debateable after going 21-35, but with someone else's players).  When Ted is let go, Ken also becomes the AD.  It's decided that we don't need the Midwestern Cities Conference anymore because we'll be more successful as an Independent!!  Somewhere between the Ted years and the Ken years, we lose track of the chicken coup and get on some radar screens that we don't really want or need.  After 2 years as an Independent with a 16-41 record and no post-season play, we decide we would be more successful in the NAIA, primarily because we find ourselves looking at a huge hurdle with the NCAA, but also right at the end of a successful baseball season that kills any chance of a NCAA post season regional (timing is everything). 

Well, not only do we get the NAIA to move to Tulsa from KC (don't know how much we had to do with that, but may be not much), but we go 65-12 in the 2 years of our second go-around with the NAIA; and ol' Jack Wallace is our AD and Ken is a full-time head coach. 

This is when we start the Bob Brooks era.  Bob brings back credibility to a beleaguered athletic program and works hard to get the NCAA to take us back after our self-imposed death penalty. Ken Trickey goes 15-40 in the next two years of D-1 provisional play, before Mr. Brooks takes a chance on a young kid recommended by Leonard Hamilton and/or Eddie Sutton to start the Bill Self era.....and the rest is history!!

I know that there is a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff that I'm not privy to, but in summary, it is a wonder that we have any type of athletic program that we can be proud of.  We have come a LONG way in the last 15 years!!

[Mike Minyard]

Now would be a great time to get people to put an ORU history book together.  There is so much that has happened in it's short history that we could all use the history lesson.  It could be an awesome way to get a lot of alumni involved with ORU again.  There could be a second release of the book that would be like the "No Holding Back" uncensored version.  LOL

[Old Titan]

That's what makes the decade-long run of success achieved by Mike Carter, Scott Sutton, Rob Walton, and Jerry Finkbeiner so impressive:  all have had their crosses to bear (pun intended) and all have had opportunities for so-called "better" jobs. 

Yet they have all stayed for what some may consider a renaissance, but what is in actuality an unprecedented "Golden Age", of stability in ORU athletics.

...and now that we have an administration to match, the sky's the limit!

[Old Titan]

That whole time in the 80's - 1993 was such a debacle for us, OT.  It's hard to believe that we survived through all of that.  First we fire your Dad after others make the decision to fire Ken Hayes at an untimely point in the year.  Larry did a good job of trying to keep things going, but when he didn't do what the family wanted (to reduce costs by eliminating a stellar golf program), Ted Owens was there to save the day as he had always wanted to be an AD.  He takes the job as AD after one year as the head basketball coach and eliminates the golf program.  Some on the Titan Club board didn't take too kindly to this (including one of our beloved administrators today) and they go raise the money at Southern Hills needed to start a men's golf program at TU.  Bill Brogden remains TU's first and only men's golf coach today.

Ted also decides that he needs to hire Ken Trickey as his assistant coach in his second year as head basketball coach because he's busy being an AD.  Ken eventually gets the confidence of the family and Ted is summarily fired after his second season (which was debateable after going 21-35, but with someone else's players).  When Ted is let go, Ken also becomes the AD.  It's decided that we don't need the Midwestern Cities Conference anymore because we'll be more successful as an Independent!!  Somewhere between the Ted years and the Ken years, we lose track of the chicken coup and get on some radar screens that we don't really want or need.  After 2 years as an Independent with a 16-41 record and no post-season play, we decide we would be more successful in the NAIA, primarily because we find ourselves looking at a huge hurdle with the NCAA, but also right at the end of a successful baseball season that kills any chance of a NCAA post season regional (timing is everything). 

Well, not only do we get the NAIA to move to Tulsa from KC (don't know how much we had to do with that, but may be not much), but we go 65-12 in the 2 years of our second go-around with the NAIA; and ol' Jack Wallace is our AD and Ken is a full-time head coach. 

This is when we start the Bob Brooks era.  Bob brings back credibility to a beleaguered athletic program and works hard to get the NCAA to take us back after our self-imposed death penalty. Ken Trickey goes 15-40 in the next two years of D-1 provisional play, before Mr. Brooks takes a chance on a young kid recommended by Leonard Hamilton and/or Eddie Sutton to start the Bill Self era.....and the rest is history!!

I know that there is a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff that I'm not privy to, but in summary, it is a wonder that we have any type of athletic program that we can be proud of.  We have come a LONG way in the last 15 years!!

That's some good background on "The Dark Ages", Bogus - I didn't know about a lot of that stuff.  I was so bitter after my "tour of duty" concluded in '84 that I fell away from the program and the school until my dad came back in '91. 

All I remember about those first couple of years trying to get back into D-1 was losing games to the likes of Kansas, UCLA and OU where we allowed something like 150 points a contest.

That's not a joke:  we really did give up something around 150 points in those three games. 

[Cletus]

Wow, I know I wrote this before but thanks for the history being posted!

Not only a trip down memory lane but the puzzle is coming together.

What has been accomplished in ORU sports these past few years is nothing more than miraculous!

I'm thankful I was a part of the past (as my ORU graduation speaker Bob Hope said, "Thanks for the memories")

now I'm looking to see what the future holds!

It definitely looks like, as you said OT, a "Golden Age" for ORU! 

[Cletus]

[tmh8286]

That's some good background on "The Dark Ages", Bogus - I didn't know about a lot of that stuff.  I was so bitter after my "tour of duty" concluded in '84 that I fell away from the program and the school until my dad came back in '91. 

After you said that your dad was the "sacrificial lamb" when Ken Hayes was fired, it made me a little surprised that you are still the devoted follower and supporter of the program that you are - far less has caused many to walk the plank as far as ORU is concerned.  The fact that he was asked to return no doubt played a part in that.  I, for one, am glad you chose the high road and didn't let the decisions of a few sour you on the whole program.

[tmh8286]

Hearing a story like that makes us extremely fortunate to have a person like OT as a part of the ORU athletic family.  I've heard a lot of stories of experiences while at ORU, but it is great to actually hear a story of someone taking a stance against the "ORU way".  It wears me out how some people involved with ORU care way too much about what other people do with their lives. 

Like those poor souls posting on the blog you linked to over on the Free for All board a while back?  I had a lengthy response to their rants typed out, but decided not to post it - really, not worth the effort.  What it basically comes down to is, those that posted there, and many others, chose to focus on the creation, not the Creator.  When you do that you'll always be disappointed, guaranteed.

[oruvoice]

Points of clarification...

Wallace was not the AD during the NAIA years (89-91). Ken Trickey was the AD and head coach. Brooks was re-hired in 91, to help make the move back to NCAA D-1.

Also, in 1989 was when ORU shut down the City of Faith/Medical School. The move to NAIA was also for financial reasons, as much as it was for 'possible' NCAA investigation. Oral cut EVERYTHING he could to save money. That is why, as an 18 year old freshman, I became the 'Sports Information Director'. The athletic department consisted of the coaches, Ken Trickey, one secretary, and a couple of students.

Good times though! Making roadies in vans with the basketball team to Fort Hays St., Tarleton St., U. of the Ozarks, and numerous other lovely destinations of the NAIA!!!

[ORU Eli]

bla bla bla...if the season would hurry up and get here maybe we could do something to earn us consideration for movement up the list...

[SOLO_Gold]

Points of clarification...

Wallace was not the AD during the NAIA years (89-91). Ken Trickey was the AD and head coach. Brooks was re-hired in 91, to help make the move back to NCAA D-1.

Also, in 1989 was when ORU shut down the City of Faith/Medical School. The move to NAIA was also for financial reasons, as much as it was for 'possible' NCAA investigation. Oral cut EVERYTHING he could to save money. That is why, as an 18 year old freshman, I became the 'Sports Information Director'. The athletic department consisted of the coaches, Ken Trickey, one secretary, and a couple of students.

Good times though! Making roadies in vans with the basketball team to Fort Hays St., Tarleton St., U. of the Ozarks, and numerous other lovely destinations of the NAIA!!!

18 in 89 would mean....

Good to know - brings perspective 

[Old Titan]

Points of clarification...

Wallace was not the AD during the NAIA years (89-91). Ken Trickey was the AD and head coach. Brooks was re-hired in 91, to help make the move back to NCAA D-1.

Also, in 1989 was when ORU shut down the City of Faith/Medical School. The move to NAIA was also for financial reasons, as much as it was for 'possible' NCAA investigation. Oral cut EVERYTHING he could to save money. That is why, as an 18 year old freshman, I became the 'Sports Information Director'. The athletic department consisted of the coaches, Ken Trickey, one secretary, and a couple of students.

Good times though! Making roadies in vans with the basketball team to Fort Hays St., Tarleton St., U. of the Ozarks, and numerous other lovely destinations of the NAIA!!!

I think that's right about Wallace:  I think he took over as AD when Ted Owens left in spring of '87 and only lasted a couple of years - I think by the time the NAIA deal came around in '89 he was gone or doing something else.

Never sure what his qualifications for the job were - I know his only previous stint in the realm of athletics had been a single 0-and-10 season as a head football coach at some small college in the 60's or 70's.

His brief but disastrous legacy as AD at ORU including pulling us out of the Midwestern City Conference (now the Horizon League) to instead play a brutal independent schedule in all sports; while at the same time dropping TU from the schedule in basketball, after Ted Owens had just managed to finally beat them for the first time in 14 straight games the year before.

And memo to "blah, blah, blah" ORU Eli:  "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."

[LarryL]

Wow, OT, this has been really interesting!  Not having inside information in those days, all I know is that I was very angry with a succession of coaching changes/firings in the late '70s and 80's, and literally sick to my stomach with the drop to the NAIA.  In my opinion, everyone mentioned above were people, some good, some not so good, that took the fall, and the real culprit behind it all is the Roberts whose first name is Richard.

[tmh8286]

Points of clarification...

Wallace was not the AD during the NAIA years (89-91). Ken Trickey was the AD and head coach. Brooks was re-hired in 91, to help make the move back to NCAA D-1.

Also, in 1989 was when ORU shut down the City of Faith/Medical School. The move to NAIA was also for financial reasons, as much as it was for 'possible' NCAA investigation. Oral cut EVERYTHING he could to save money. That is why, as an 18 year old freshman, I became the 'Sports Information Director'. The athletic department consisted of the coaches, Ken Trickey, one secretary, and a couple of students.

Good times though! Making roadies in vans with the basketball team to Fort Hays St., Tarleton St., U. of the Ozarks, and numerous other lovely destinations of the NAIA!!!

A number of years ago they had a Tulsa sports history segment on 1430 on Friday mornings I always tried to listen to, and they had a two week interview with Ken Trickey that was extremely interesting - I've always wanted to try to get my hands on a tape of that interview.  Among the things that Trickey talked about was the drop to NAIA.  He said in that interview that he was AD, and that Oral came to him and told him that he was going to eliminate athletics entirely due to the financial crunch that ORU was in at the time.  Trickey told Oral to give him a chance to come up with another option before he did that, which Oral did, and the plan Trickey developed included the move to NAIA.  He said that's how that came about.  That goes along with what you're saying, voice.

I'm sure that this is a white-washed version of what really happened, and while it may or may not all be true, it's probably at least part of the story, with other factors involved. 

Trickey also spent quite a bit of time talking about the first game at the Mabee Center - should have been  Notre Dame, was instead Wisconsin.  An interesting story about Digger Phleps . . . but that's for another post.

[Old Titan]

A number of years ago they had a Tulsa sports history segment on 1430 on Friday mornings I always tried to listen to, and they had a two week interview with Ken Trickey that was extremely interesting - I've always wanted to try to get my hands on a tape of that interview.  Among the things that Trickey talked about was the drop to NAIA.  He said in that interview that he was AD, and that Oral came to him and told him that he was going to eliminate athletics entirely due to the financial crunch that ORU was in at the time.  Trickey told Oral to give him a chance to come up with another option before he did that, which Oral did, and the plan Trickey developed included the move to NAIA.  He said that's how that came about.  That goes along with what you're saying, voice.

I'm sure that this is a white-washed version of what really happened, and while it may or may not all be true, it's probably at least part of the story, with other factors involved. 

I think everything you just said was true:  Oral was in fact the impetus behind leaving the conference and then dropping to NAIA, in order to save money on scholarships, travel etc. by reducing the number of sports played. 

But I think Trickey knew the NCAA wolves were at the door, also, and the drop to NAIA would help avoid another investigation that would have surely meant the end of ORU athletics.

Another clarification after talking to "the old man" this morning:  Brooks' last year as AD was '94, which means he was still at ORU during Bill Self's first year ('93-'94), a disastrous 6-21 campaign that included a 15-game losing streak to end the year.  That might make anyone want to retire! 

Mike Carter was named AD in November of '94, which means he's entering his 15th school year next month - an amazing achievement for an athletic director at any D-1 school these days, much less ORU!

[tmh8286]

Another clarification after talking to "the old man" this morning:  Brooks' last year as AD was '94, which means he was still at ORU during Bill Self's first year ('93-'94), a disastrous 6-21 campaign that included a 15-game losing streak to end the year.  That might make anyone want to retire! 

Mike Carter was named AD in November of '94, which means he's entering his 15th school year next month - an amazing achievement for an athletic director at any D-1 school these days, much less ORU!

As you alluded to earlier, OT, MUCH of the success of ORU over the past 10-15 years is a result of the stability brought to the program over that period of time, and THAT lies directly on the shoulders of Mike Carter, Scott Sutton and Jerry Finkbeiner (with Rob Walton also building a significant legacy).  This in spite of the storms that were hammering away at the rest of the University. 

Your dad really oversaw the program in some of it's most successful times and it's most tumultuous times.  I'm sure that it was his stabilizing presence that kept things afloat during some of those tough years.  It's interesting that Bill Self was his hire.  I thought Mike Carter brought Bill Self in.

[Old Titan]

As you alluded to earlier, OT, MUCH of the success of ORU over the past 10-15 years is a result of the stability brought to the program over that period of time, and THAT lies directly on the shoulders of Mike Carter, Scott Sutton and Jerry Finkbeiner (with Rob Walton also building a significant legacy).  This in spite of the storms that were hammering away at the rest of the University. 

Your dad really oversaw the program in some of it's most successful times and it's most tumultuous times.  I'm sure that it was his stabilizing presence that kept things afloat during some of those tough years.  It's interesting that Bill Self was his hire.  I thought Mike Carter brought Bill Self in.

Self was not the "slam dunk" hire some may now assume he was:  the selection committee, which included Brooks and Carter, was somewhat split on the unproven-Self and another impressive applicant, a more experienced African-American assistant coach from a Big XII school who's name escapes me now (Ray Lopes? Terry Evans?).  I think Eddie Sutton's endorsement, along with Richard Roberts' admiration of Bill, tipped the scales mightily in Self's favor.

And the rest, as they say, is history! 

[ron]

Hey, thanks a lot to everyone who has contributed to the history of the athletic program at ORU over the past several decades. I wonder if we should rename this thread and put it up in the permanently on top postings.

A question that comes up for me as I try to personalize all this information regards Mike Carter. Is this the same Mike Carter that was Dean of Men in 1979 and/or 1980?