theeagleman5 Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 This is some very good discussion....i appreciate all the points made and most are valid...but i guess at the present time it does come down to money issues....things are tight and we can't expect Mart Green to write checks for everything....can we?....i guess not and if we can only put 50% capacity in Mabee Center for a conference championship team 3 yrs running...well, that is just pathetic in my opinion....is ORU that disliked in the Tulsa community that people won't pay $12 for a ticket to see good D-1 basketball?....in the 70's we averaged over 7500 consistantly and had well over that for the big games....what's the problem besides student body apathy??? it was sad to me to see empty seats at the conference tournament....should have been sold out easy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 It's been discussed - it's actually more of a realistic destination than The Valley, but the football thing is huge deal. They really want football-playing members. I agree they would probably prefer football playing members, right now they have 13 conference members - only 8 of which play football. While I don't see us leaving the Summit anytime soon, it just seems the Sun Belt would be more apt to expand than the Valley. An expansion of one would bring them to an even number of conference members without upsetting their already even number of football teams. Plus, as long as Jesuit run Creighton has pull in the Valley, you won't see ORU becoming a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Actually, I heard Creighton has softened their stance regarding ORU, at least in what was relayed to me regarding conversations with their AD when he was here for the BracketBuster game. I seem to recall that Bradley, for some reason or another, has been an opponent of ORU entering the league, or at least was an opponent of expansion. Not sure why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Glad to hear it ... my info wasn't that recent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89rabbit Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I agree they would probably prefer football playing members, right now they have 13 conference members - only 8 of which play football. While I don't see us leaving the Summit anytime soon, it just seems the Sun Belt would be more apt to expand than the Valley. An expansion of one would bring them to an even number of conference members without upsetting their already even number of football teams. Plus, as long as Jesuit run Creighton has pull in the Valley, you won't see ORU becoming a member. For football you want an odd number. Nine schools would give you a 4 home and 4 away conference schedule. The Gateway Football Conference added NDSU and SDSU for precisely that reason. http://gatewayfootball.xosn.com/SportSe ... &SPID=2899 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Bet you can guess now why I wasn't a math major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 For football you want an odd number. Nine schools would give you a 4 home and 4 away conference schedule. The Gateway Football Conference added NDSU and SDSU for precisely that reason. http://gatewayfootball.xosn.com/SportSe ... &SPID=2899 An even number seems to work OK for the Pac-10 and Big XII. Also, the SEC and ACC (12 each). Of course, the Big 10 actually has 11 teams, but then screws the whole thing up by playing split schedules where Ohio State and Michigan always have to play each other, yet they never each have the same conference schedule for comparison, and some teams play both of them in a season, while others play neither... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 My opinion is that the Summit is not too bad a deal for ORU in all sports. We basically should be able to get our ticket punched to the NCAAs every year. But in order to gain any kind of respect on a national level, and from local writers, ORU needs to have the most rigorous non-conference schedule possible. Not only will the Eagles be able to knock some good teams off, it will prepare them for the Conference and NCAA tournaments. I heard an coach say one time, I think it was an NBA expansion team, that if you can't draw crowds to come and see your team, then draw a crowd with the other guy's team. I think there is some wisdom in that. Not many fans (except some of you guys) get too excited about your IPFWs, and North and South Dakota States. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 My opinion is that the Summit is not too bad a deal for ORU in all sports. We basically should be able to get our ticket punched to the NCAAs every year. But in order to gain any kind of respect on a national level, and from local writers, ORU needs to have the most rigorous non-conference schedule possible. Not only will the Eagles be able to knock some good teams off, it will prepare them for the Conference and NCAA tournaments. I heard an coach say one time, I think it was an NBA expansion team, that if you can't draw crowds to come and see your team, then draw a crowd with the other guy's team. I think there is some wisdom in that. Not many fans (except some of you guys) get too excited about your IPFWs, and North and South Dakota States. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. This is exactly what I have been saying for months!! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 My opinion is that the Summit is not too bad a deal for ORU in all sports. We basically should be able to get our ticket punched to the NCAAs every year. But in order to gain any kind of respect on a national level, and from local writers, ORU needs to have the most rigorous non-conference schedule possible. Not only will the Eagles be able to knock some good teams off, it will prepare them for the Conference and NCAA tournaments. I heard an coach say one time, I think it was an NBA expansion team, that if you can't draw crowds to come and see your team, then draw a crowd with the other guy's team. I think there is some wisdom in that. Not many fans (except some of you guys) get too excited about your IPFWs, and North and South Dakota States. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I get excited about 20-win seasons, conference tournament championships, and NCAA appearances. And I frankly care little who we beat to achieve the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 What's exciting about a padded record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 What's exciting about a padded record? :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 My opinion is that the Summit is not too bad a deal for ORU in all sports. We basically should be able to get our ticket punched to the NCAAs every year. But in order to gain any kind of respect on a national level, and from local writers, ORU needs to have the most rigorous non-conference schedule possible. Not only will the Eagles be able to knock some good teams off, it will prepare them for the Conference and NCAA tournaments. I heard an coach say one time, I think it was an NBA expansion team, that if you can't draw crowds to come and see your team, then draw a crowd with the other guy's team. I think there is some wisdom in that. Not many fans (except some of you guys) get too excited about your IPFWs, and North and South Dakota States. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Larry, unless I'm very wrong here (and it does happen occasionally ), I believe that we will have three under 100 RPI teams in our league next year: IUPUI, NDSU and us. I think two of those may be capable of being under 50 RPI when all is said and done. At least those two other teams are improving as we are. Unless we have unexpected catastrophes every year (Centenary?), I believe that we have every reason to expect that our league will not continue to be among the worst in the country. I think the other two teams that I mentioned will beat some good teams this year. If we handle that right from a publicity standpoint (without discouraging our own team as we do it), I think that we should expect that some of our own Summit teams can draw a larger crowd in our building. I believe that someone posted that IUPUI will play Indiana this year. I think on a good day they have the potential to beat them. Should that give them even more respect when they play us? I hope so. The quality of recruits that we are bringing in right now is a direct result of the hard work of the coaching staff and the success that we have as we improve every year. Can next year's recruits be even better? Absolutely! That is the trend, friends! The strategy is working. The pressure is on guys because if we don't have Sweet Sixteen material this year, we may be sitting this one out, which, because we have good young recruits might be okay in the overall scheme of things. Why? Because one of the other teams in our league can recruit on the basis of a Summit League tournament win and an NCAA trip. Look what IUPUI was able to bring in with their last win. This is not the scenario that I am hoping for or believe will happen, but I will go on record again to say that the Summit League is moving ahead with us and we with them. Is it premature? Maybe. But on the other hand, maybe this is our Sweet Sixteen year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 ORU has made a good effort over the last several years to have 3-4 (sometimes more) challenging (Top 50 RPI) teams on the schedule. But since none of those teams will come to the Mabee Center, you either play them on the road or at a neutral site, such as a holiday tournament. You still need to have some non-conference home games though to make it a decent schedule for the fans and to give yourself a better chance to win those games. So the way we have scheduled for the last few years makes perfect sense. You give Lamar or LA-Lafayette or Utah State (if you can) a home and home. Also, the bracket buster assures you of a decent home game either this year or next year (if we participate). It has worked well to take this approach because the tough RPI teams help your strength of schedule and offset some of the conference games against weak RPI teams. Then if you mix in some winnable home games, you get a schedule with a decent strength of schedule, and a great chance for 20+ wins. Everytime that you see a St. Gregory's or Panhandle State on the schedule, you have to realize that that game is necessary in order to make the road game to Texas/Indiana/Georgetown etc. possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I hope we do have a sweet sixteen team this year, and hats off to the coaching staff for building an excellent program, and a fun team to watch. ORU is a team we can be proud of. You guys provide excellent analyses, and I've enjoyed reading your comments. I guess my point is, as an old ORU grad, I have fond memories of watching basketball games with a throng of anywhere between 4,000-10,000, and some pretty big names coming to town. I believe the crowds were a result of winning, having an exciting team, and teams people wanted to see. Let me make a point about strength of schedule, using the schedule of tiny Davidson College, not far from here. This past season, they played No.1 North Carolina (neutral site), No. 7 Duke, Charlotte, No. 7 UCLA, NC State, UNC-Greensboro, College of Charleston, and a good Winthrop team. Plus I read they scrimmaged Texas before the season began. I believe all this contributed to their nearly making it to the championship game. All said, I know ORU is on its way up, and the Summit is getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Times have changed..... Barring some extraordinary circumstance, ORU (or and other mid-major) is not going to get a BCS-type school in the Mabee Center. Davidson was able to get those game - not because of their great player, Stephan Curry - but because of his father, Dell Curry.... and assistant coach on the Charlotte Bobcats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceManSpiff Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Let me make a point about strength of schedule, using the schedule of tiny Davidson College, not far from here. This past season, they played No.1 North Carolina (neutral site), No. 7 Duke, Charlotte, No. 7 UCLA, NC State, UNC-Greensboro, College of Charleston, and a good Winthrop team. Plus I read they scrimmaged Texas before the season began. I believe all this contributed to their nearly making it to the championship game. All said, I know ORU is on its way up, and the Summit is getting better. I agree we should schedule hard opponents so our players are used to tough competition... and I think we have already started to do that. Our non-conference strength of schedule was ranked 14th in the country last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 Well, i have to say that the commentary here in the past 24 hrs. is top quality stuff...i appreciate all the input and comments i read all make sense....agree that this is no longer the 70's top 30 teams are NOT going to come into Mabee unless you have a team like Duke or Villanova who historically will play a game on the road in a tough building of a mid major because they are recruiting a kid from the area or have a kid on the roster from that area and promised him a game in his hometown....but perhaps we could get home and home games with a Davidson, Winthrop or Sam Houston St....all top mid majors...as for IUPUI and NDSU having the potential to be TOP 50 RPI schools....dream on, Ron....they are not at that level and never will be....What ORU did being in the top 50 or so this past year was an amazing job by Scott Sutton and his staff and also some very smart scheduling....here's hoping they keep up the good work!...but i do think the fans at Mabee need to see better schools coming in to play in Tulsa....the teams i mentioned above would come i think for a home and home...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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