Eaglefan 21 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I think OT mentioned in another thread Williams body language. I haven’t noticed it from watching it on tv. However, I imagine he is frustrated by his lack of playing time. I think we know what we have in Trey. He is crafty, a streaky shooter, and has some good instincts but is an average to below average defender with far too much of a green light on offense for my taste. Demari is different, we don’t know exactly what we have but 6’5 with a 6’11 wing span coupled with a strong build and good athleticism doesn’t come along all the time.He has a decent stroke too, he hits at least one jumper every time he plays. I want to see what we have in him as this team will lose a lot of talent and experience next year especially at the SG and SF. I like amboree a lot. I think he will be a good scorer but maybe a better passer. He is adjusting to the speed of the game but he is looking for teammates and he has dropped a couple eye opening dimes this year. I’m guessing he sits behind Mackie next year but his minutes will increase. I hate hearing that about Herron’s injuries, I have been excited about him since he stepped on campus. He oozes potential. I think he could be a very similar player to Grant Nelson at NDSU. Its honestly exciting that we have such young talent on the bench to be excited about. There are no Adrion Webbers, Jabbar Singletons, Corbin Byfords, Ty lazenby’s, or Kellen Maneks on this team. I shuddered a little typing those names… so glad to have the talent mills is bringing in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, ORU40 said: Bogus, I hate to disagree with you, but I don't think Trey helps the team now or in the future. The reason coach doesn't play him in certain situations is he's so overmatched!!! He can't be on the court against good teams! Still waiting to hear what he does well??? Cam is the future not Trey!!! SP, you can disagree with me anytime you want. Shoot, my wife disagrees with me a lot, too!! I don't disagree that Trey may be overmatched in certain situations, but Coach isn't playing Cam (or others) either in those circumstances. As long as we are winning, I am going to say that Coach has a handle on his rotations and who is performing in the system he has designed. You can't second guess success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsSmith Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I know you want me to chime in, so I'll play along. If our worst problem is whether our player with the 8th most minutes is playing too much, then it's not a bad problem. We don't watch practice or have all the information that the coaches do. Cam has a lot of upside, but his stats aren't exactly great. He's 0-9 from 3 and 4-14 from 2 and 11 TOs. I'm sure he could improve on those with more playing time, but the same could probably be said of Trey. Trey has 11 steals and 10 TOs in his limited time. I think every miss or turnover must play over and over in your mind. I too would like to see more of Williams, Weaver and Herron. I love when Conner and Patrick are playing together. What we really should be talking about is why we play so many guards. Oh yeah, we have discussed that over and over too. After a win like tonight there just isn't much to complain about, is there? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrsSmith said: What we really should be talking about is why we play so many guards. Now you’re talking Mrs. Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Trey was a 3 point sharpshooter in high school at Booker T Washington. It does not seem that in his limited playing time his 3 point shooting prowess is carrying over to the games. I would guess that he probably shoots lights out from 3 point range in practice and that is why he has earned playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmg1984 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, jmg1984 said: His form looks so much worse and is hurrying his shots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 27 minutes ago, ORUJason said: Trey was a 3 point sharpshooter in high school at Booker T Washington. It does not seem that in his limited playing time his 3 point shooting prowess is carrying over to the games. I would guess that he probably shoots lights out from 3 point range in practice and that is why he has earned playing time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) First of all, I have upmost respect for @ORU40's basketball insights. In fact I would say that many of us on this board gave 100% and played really hard at whatever level of basketball we achieved (like Mr. Phipps does) but ORU40 is the only D1 basketball player that I am aware of active on this board. But I also love to test theories and opinions with facts and data like I did with my view that teams should foul when up by 3 in the closing seconds. Apparently the data doesn't prove that out. In any event, I pulled up the team's stat sheet this morning and dropped it into Excel so I could take a look at Mr. Phipps compared to the team and other players at his position. We are 18 games in so I think we are approaching a statistically significant sample size for this season. FG%: 0.333 which is lower than all other guards with material playing time other than Jurgens who is also shooting 0.333 3Pt%: .302 which is the lowest percentage of anyone averaging 10 minutes or more and less than the team average Assists: This one is tricky but I think I created a new statistic Assists Per Minute Played. Trey averages 0.076 which is slightly less than the team average of 0.078 but less than every other guard except Carlos, once again. (maybe Carlos is really a forward?) Free Throw %: This is his strength. 0.759 which is 0.002 above the team average Turnovers to Steals: He's a push at 10:11 which is much better than the team which is averaging about 1.5 turnovers per steal So he's a shooter who isn't shooting well who has a high basketball IQ yet he doesn't seem to be making those around him better. I'm sure I'm missing something and have committed some unfair error in my analysis and I welcome that input. As usual, @MrsSmith makes an excellent point. Giving 13 minutes a game to Cam or any other guard isn't the right response to these facts. Giving those minutes to a forward might be the better action. Edited January 13, 2023 by Otis 83 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue82 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Good stuff, Otis. While I am often frustrated when Trey is on the court, it is usually the DEFENSIVE result that draws my ire. When there is a breakdown in team defense that leads to an easy shot, the vast majority of the time Trey is right in the middle of it, and it usually appears that he has missed an assignment. I realize that one person’s failure to defend will usually impact the whole team, and Trey may NOT be the primary offender. But, it sure looks like it to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I will always root for Trey because he literally grew up on the sidelines with the ORU basketball program and he's a Tulsa area guy. I am hoping he pulls out of his current shooting slump and returns closer to last year's form 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU40 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Otis 83 said: In any event, I pulled up the team's stat sheet this morning and dropped it into Excel so I could take a look at Mr. Phipps compared to the team and other players at his position. We are 18 games in so I think we are approaching a statistically significant sample size for this season. FG%: 0.333 which is lower than all other guards with material playing time other than Jurgens who is also shooting 0.333 3Pt%: .302 which is the lowest percentage of anyone averaging 10 minutes or more and less than the team average Assists: This one is tricky but I think I created a new statistic Assists Per Minute Played. Trey averages 0.076 which is slightly less than the team average of 0.078 but less than every other guard except Carlos, once again. (maybe Carlos is really a forward?) Free Throw %: This is his strength. 0.759 which is 0.002 above the team average Turnovers to Steals: He's a push at 10:11 which is much better than the team which is averaging about 1.5 turnovers per steal So he's a shooter who isn't shooting well who has a high basketball IQ yet he doesn't seem to be making those around him better. I'm sure I'm missing something and have committed some unfair error in my analysis and I welcome that input. As usual, @MrsSmith makes an excellent point. Giving 13 minutes a game to Cam or any other guard isn't the right response to these facts. Giving those minutes to a forward might be the better action. Otis you make some very good points and an excellent statistical analysis, and if you drill down just a little you can get a slightly better look at the meaningful minutes picture. If you take out the stats from the middle school JV Ozark Christian 50-point blow-out shooting drill, his FG% drops to ,258 and 3Pt% .233! That just isn't going to get us where we want to go. TrueBlue 82 makes some great points regarding his play on the defensive end. MrsSmith makes a great point about playing 3 guards, but that's what coach is going to do, it's his system! As critical is it to win now; and that's our primary objective, we also need to develop our future, I think Cam should be getting more minutes because it's either going to be Cam & Isaac starting in our back court next year or Trey and Isaac, personally I think Cam is a better option and getting him more minutes this year before we get into critical games (when we will shorten our rotation anyway) will greatly help his development. I know I have been critical of Trey, it's not personal and I don't intend it as complaints- it's just my opinion of things I think we can improve on. I want the Golden Eagles to win the conference, conf. tourney and get back to the Big Dance! To reach those goals we have to play our best, not have the stretches in games where we get sloppy and give up leads or become satisfied because were beating lessor competition at the bottom of the Summit. The KC game was a great example, Max bailed us out with a miracle! but if we play like that in the conf tourney on a neutral court our season could be cut a lot shorter than it should. We have a lot of talent, Max is a senior with Carlos and Kareem... our time is now, but we have to play our best players and play full 40-minute games and finish those games out. We have to keep improving, keeping working our butts off, not allow ourselves to be satisfied until we reach those goals!! Let's Go Eagles we are heading into the home stretch! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Connor Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 But I also love to test theories and opinions with facts and data like I did with my view that teams should foul when up by 3 in the closing seconds. Apparently the data doesn't prove that out. For what it's worth: During Tuesday's Michigan State vs Wisconsin game, with 12 seconds left Tyson Walker made a free throw that put MSU ahead by 3 points. As Walker was preparing for his second free throw attempt, the camera zoomed in on coach Izzo, and I read his lips as he yelled to his players: "If he misses, foul", and he hacked himself on the arm. Walker made the 2nd free throw, putting MSU up by 4. The camera then showed Izzo shouting to his players: "Don't foul". So, that was the strategy of a Hall-of-Fame coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 ORU40's comments above are RIGHT ON!!!...spoken like a true ex-player who understands the drill.......ORU's time is now and we need to win the Summit while the Dakota schools are stuggling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU40 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 First half v St Thomas- Trey checks in we're up 25-15, 4 minutes later Trey pulled out we're up 31-29... outscored 14-6 in 4 minutes. DJ back in up 8 at the half! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Bingo....Coach Mills please watch the game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, ORU40 said: First half v St Thomas- Trey checks in we're up 25-15, 4 minutes later Trey pulled out we're up 31-29... outscored 14-6 in 4 minutes. DJ back in up 8 at the half! Dude you read my mind. I made the exact same observation at home. smh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue82 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Otis 83 said: Dude you read my mind. I made the exact same observation at home. smh The coaching staff noticed, too. No minutes in the second half. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 They noticed Jurgens wasn't helping much either.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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