Guest Mount Baldy Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Get your stinkin' paws off us, you *&^! dirty apes! Try putting this tourney in a neutral city and see how many fans show up. It's been tried in places like Moline and Ft. Wayne and failed miserably. We're not the Big 12 or Big 10. Fans in neutral cities don't give a rip about us. The tourney must be held in the city of one of the member institutions. Other requirements include enough hotel rooms, a neutral court (meaning a host city better have an arena other than its home arena); and the host team better have a large enough fan base to make the tourney some money. Sorry, Chicago State! Valpo fans - consider these requirements before wishing your folks would bid for the tourney. Do you have enough hotel rooms and restaurants? Do you have another arena in town? Hmmmmm, didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 For the sake of argument because I don't know the details, if it did meet all of your requirements, would that be ok with ORU? If you actually could match the bid on everything I think it would be a good idea to alternate between the 2 sites. But, we both know Valpo doesn't have those facilities or even come close to matching the bid at this time, so you might want to be elected mayor and push some bond issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 If you actually could match the bid on everything I think it would be a good idea to alternate between the 2 sites. But, we both know Valpo doesn't have those facilities or even come close to matching the bid at this time, so you might want to be elected mayor and push some bond issued. Between the two sites? I was kidding. You guys are hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Get your stinkin' paws off us, you *&^! dirty apes! Try putting this tourney in a neutral city and see how many fans show up. It's been tried in places like Moline and Ft. Wayne and failed miserably. We're not the Big 12 or Big 10. Fans in neutral cities don't give a rip about us. The tourney must be held in the city of one of the member institutions. Other requirements include enough hotel rooms, a neutral court (meaning a host city better have an arena other than its home arena); and the host team better have a large enough fan base to make the tourney some money. Sorry, Chicago State! Valpo fans - consider these requirements before wishing your folks would bid for the tourney. Do you have enough hotel rooms and restaurants? Do you have another arena in town? Hmmmmm, didn't think so. Is it fair to have the tournament in the city of any one of the members of the Mid-Con. If your answer is yes, you think like an ape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 You folks go ahead and continue to think it's ok to have the conference tournament in Tulsa and that it's fair to all of the other teams. That kind of denial doesn't surprise me coming from ORU. Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 If Valpo had won, or even had a prayer this year,(I still consider 20 points a spanking) you wouldn't be having this little hissey fit. Alternating would be fair if all else is equal, but you want what's good for Little Ricky, not the MidCon. Pick up your purse, straighten your skirt and head back to your own board (don't forget to accessorize) while ORU prepares to go dancin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mount Baldy Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Wow, Valpo Rick. You're right. Go ahead and settle for mediocrity, whine about fairness and put the tourney in Bismarck. The point is it doesn't have to be in Tulsa but it should be in a Mid-Con city that can make the conference some money and has the facilities necessary for a successful tourney. Let's see. That would be Tulsa...and uh....Tulsa....and uh....maybe Tulsa! Valpo, either step up or shut up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAdder Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 If every conference school's hometown had a UMAC and a Tulsa Sports Commission I doubt too many of us would have a problem rotating the tournament throughout every team's hometown each year. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I don't think any city bid for the 2007-08 Mid-Con Tournament, so the conference had no choice but to award Tulsa the tournament. Does the fact that the conference is in Tulsa favor ORU? ..... uh, yeah. Does ORU help the Tulsa Sports Commission in bidding for the tournament? Yes The answer for the other schools is to put together a comparable bid. The problem is that most (or any) of them can't. ORU is the only school in a mid-sized metropolitan area with sufficient community/fan support to justify a tournament. If the Conference decides to move the tournament, they will have to do so in the face of the obvious success that Tulsa has demonstrated. They would also have to forego their fiduciary ($) responsibility. The Tulsa conference has made money - the others have all lost money. What are the choices? Valparaiso: At least in Valparaiso, it appears that there is not the sufficient infrastructure (arena, hotels, etc) IUPUI: Indianapolis.... it's possible, but I'm not sure the city would rally around a commuter school. Centenary: Shreveport? nope Oakland: again, it's possible - but hard to see the community rally around a commuter school. UMKC: KC is a good venue, but not Kemper (echo chamber) Arena. Not sure they can get community support. This area makes the most sense as an alternative to Tulsa. Southern Utah: only chance is to have Las Vegas bid the tourny. Western Illinois: Macomb?? Been there, done that. Chicago State: nope The only possible alternative is to allow the games to be played on home courts of the higher seeds.... which would be an administrative (and costly) nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManiacAlum Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I didnt hear any complaints from us when we went into Kemper in '03 and '04 and got outplayed by UMKC in the first round both years. Were there any complaints from Valpo fans? Im guessing not, since they went to the finals twice (by beating the 'Roos) and won a championship. This excuse is weak and getting pretty old. This would be impossible given the geographical ridiculousness of the Mid-Con, but they could have done like most conferences our size (and larger) and awarded us home court for earning the regular season championship. Having 7,500 or 8,000 fans screaming at the Mabee Center for ORU games would have made for an interesting tourney. Yep, its an advantage..but we have been at a disadvantage for years just like everyone else. I'm not sorry, nothing is going to take away from this..Go Eagles!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 You folks go ahead and continue to think it's ok to have the conference tournament in Tulsa and that it's fair to all of the other teams. That kind of denial doesn't surprise me coming from ORU. Bye! Rick, I don't think a single person has argued against your points. All we've said is that in an open competitive bid process Tulsa has twice put together a package that was superior to any others - if there were any others at all. In the most recent bid there weren't. I think we all understand, and to a degree agree with, your points. Having the tournament in Tulsa is an advantage to ORU. But our argument is, it is here because we won it in a fair and open bid process that was judged by Mid-Con administrators. It is what it is. Just so you know, the Tulsa Sports Commission (that placed the bid) is a branch of the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce. Their sole function is to bring sporting events, like the Mid-Con Tournament, to Tulsa. Prior to the Mid-Con, they were successful in making Tulsa the host of the WAC Tournament for several years. Know where they had it? At the Reynolds Center, home court of the University of Tulsa, a participant in the tournament! In many ways the Mid-Con has made the Tournament more equitable than it is in many conferences. After the Tournament Championship on Tuesday night I went home and watched the end of the Horizon League Championship between Butler and UW-M, played AT UW-M, and won by UW-M. Whether there is justice or fairness or whatever in the practice, conference tournament games are played on the home courts of participating teams throughout the NCAA. The Mid-Con situation is no different than many other conferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttowncount Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttowncount Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Rick, this is a basketball related forum.... keep it on topic. And don't make ad hominem attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl VU Fan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Let's see here... The plaintiff has stipulated that the defense won the tourney because they have the best team. While the defense has not voiced their stipulation that indeed they have an enormous home court advantage at the UMAC, they haven't exactlty denied it either. What they have stipulated is that if some other home city can compete with the UMAC and Tulsa on quality of facility and services and hotels, etc. that of course it would be fine to have the tourney there as well. Now I hand down my ruling... Obviously there is no way any other school in the Mid-Con could match ORU's fan turnout for the tourney, not in a million years. The word "unfair" is apparently an inflammatory word in this conversation, carrying all kinds of baggage with it thtat smacks of sour grapes. But to a neutral observer, it is really hard to say the word "unfair" in no way applies. Obviously it does. However, it seems to me that the plaintiff's real target should be the Mid-Con office and the Council of Presidents (or whatever it is called), not a bunch of ORU fans on a message board, and in fact, I detect more than a hint that the plaintiff is aware of this and has in fact stipulated to this. He just wants his concern to be understood. At the same time, the current position of the Mid-Con office is that the "unfair" homecourt advantage has been achieved quite fairly. No one else has bid for the tourney the next two years, and the tourney has to be held somewhere. It is not played in the Mabee Center, so it qualifies according to the rules. It is fair that Tulsa hosts the tourney, so ORU has been fairly given an unfair fan advantage. Therefore, I rule that the charges, while true to a great extent, do not amount to a crime, and I dismiss this case. The plaintiff and defendent will please gather outside the courtroom for the "Reaction to the Judge's ruling" segment of our program. Next Case :arrow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 A very fair and equitable ruling, Judge. Thank you for bringing this quagmire to a close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglei Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 For the sake of argument because I don't know the details, if it did meet all of your requirements, would that be ok with ORU to have it at Valpo High School? Like conventions, a new location is always good for a new draw and a new reason to go if it has accommodations, activities and functions to satisfy the visitors. The wife and I enjoy the tournament games, plus local (not chain) eating locations and other popular activities wherever the tournaments are held. We enjoyed both Fort Wayne and Kansas City. If the tournament is held in Cedar City, Rochester, Macomb, Valparaiso, Chicago, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Shreveport or Tulsa again we intend to be there. So yes, I think it should be rotated as long as either the community or school is willing to make the commitment and guarantee the MID-CON a set amount to cover expenses and fees affiliated with the tournament. Correct me if I?m wrong but it is my understanding that any tournament profits or losses, sooner or later effects how much is split amongst ALL the MID-CON teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieoru Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Stl Vu Fan you could be the next Judge Judy or Judge Reinhold (if anyone else watched Arrested Development). As much as I love to hate Valpo for being so successful for so long, you just have to be so fair and just in your posts, that I just can't help but like Valpo at least a little. I was hoping all your fans were like valpo rick, so that I could really dislike you guys. But dangit I have to like Valpo just a little for a genuine fan like yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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