vcboy2000 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 There has been some crying lately from some of our detractors saying that ORU has hijacked the Mid-Con tournament by having it here in Tulsa. While it sure doesn't hurt our chances having it here in Tulsa, I always thought that it was the Tulsa Sports Commission that put up the money and resources to get the tourney off the ground. Am I incorrect in that assessment? Would I be wrong if I assumed that any other site that showed promise of making money outside of their own arena would also garner consideration to host the tournament? ORU insiders, help me understand what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 This kind of stuff is what I'm talking about. Can anyone guess who wrote it? Re: So, is ORU creating a dynasty? ? Reply #7 on Yesterday at 7:13pm ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you recall, ORU had a lower bid a couple of years ago than did KC for the tournament. They really whined about that and felt an injustice that they were not selected IIRC. The squeaky wheel eventually got greased. Make no mistake, Oral Roberts and his machine would do anything to keep the tourney in Tulsa. They would subsidize the cost of tournament if they had to. Remember when Oral Roberts tried to raise money once and said God told him he would die if it wasn't raised by such-and-such a date? Well, it wasn't raised by that date and he survived. They eventually got the money they needed but the enterprise later failed. They know how to get on TV and raise those bucks. No, we will be in Tulsa for some time. These guys understand the power of money. ......................................................................................................... When did this stop being about basketball, and start being about money for our retired founder and chancellor that no longer has anything to do with running the university? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetorfenix86 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 That kind of crap pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC Golden Eagle Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 It's just sour grapes and unfortunately Oral is an obvious and easy target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 You're right. I've got to learn to just let things go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is what I remember: The Tulsa Sports Commission (not ORU) bid on the Mid-Con Tournament three years ago in order to attract a sporting event to Tulsa. (That is their job.) The Mid-Con rejected the bid - even though it was higher than the bid submitted by Kansas City - because it included the Mabee Center as the venue. The conference schools did not want the tournament played on a member school's home court. The Mid-Con ended up in cavernous Kemper Arena (16,000 seats) and lost money on the tournament. The TSC then re-bid for the next year using the UMAC as a venue. The Pavillion was also contemplated. ORU participated by agreeing to help with volunteers, but the TSC (along with the Mid-Con) is in control of the event. The result has been the two of the best (as defined by attendance) conference tournament the Mid-Con has ever had. My understanding is that until last year, the conference had never made money with the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManiacAlum Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I hate when people try to say stuff like that. Having the tourney at Kemper was a joke. And the Mid-Con has to love the exposure that the last two championship games created. Watching fans rush the court is great, I dont care if you're a fan or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 We all know that Valpo fans are regular visitors to our board, especially at times like this with the tournament and all, so anything we post on our board will be read by Valpo fans. They know the same thing about us. When Rick posts stuff like that, he knows we'll see it. After reading his posts for the past several years I've learned that they are intended as much to get a reaction from people as they are to express his feelings. I feel pretty certain that's what is going on here. Rick probably believes most, if not all, of what he's saying, but the purpose of saying it now it to antagonize us a little bit. I think we're playing into his game. Am I right, Rick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanic Eagle Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Remember when Oral Roberts tried to raise money once and said God told him he would die if it wasn't raised by such-and-such a date? Well, it wasn't raised by that date and he survived. They eventually got the money they needed but the enterprise later failed. That, of course, is inaccurate on several points. So, don't take that dweeb too seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusaderjoe Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well, personally (and I've said this on the VU board) I think if the conference tourney is making money in Tulsa, then from an economic standpoint, the logical thing to do would be to keep it there, regardless of whether there is a perceived home court advantage in favor of you guys. On the other hand, I think it is also certainly fair to debate the issue of whether a more "geograhapically neutral" site other than Tulsa exists. Given the geographical complexion of the conference in general, I think this is something that I think we as fans can chat about. In general, IMO, it's really not about "sour grapes." I can't speak for everyone but my guess is that if you were to ask VU fans why ORU won the tournament this year, most would answer that you won because you were clearly the better team. I doubt any of us would have soley pinned your tournament win (or our tournament loss if you want to look at it that way) on the location of the tournament in Tulsa. Congratulations on winning the conference and I hope you guys make some noise in the tournament. I will be pulling for you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl VU Fan Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well said, Crusaderjoe. The only Valpo fan that is bitter about the tourney being in Tulsa no longer posts on the Valpo board (for reasons unknown) and most of us chide him if he brings it up these days. We understand that it was the Tulsa Sports Commission that managed the event, and I personally know that several ORU fans were excellent hosts to the visiting teams all weekend long. I wouldn't go so far as to believe that no one from ORU was the least bit involved in bringing the tourney to Tulsa, but so what? That'd be like saying no one at UMKC was the least bit involved in bringing the tourney to KC, and we all know that's not true. What the Valpo folks are talking about is the compromise that has to be made in order to have a successful tourney. The most ideal and best situation, for the players and the fans is to have it in a neutral city equa-distant from every school in the conference (if such a place even exists) - for obvious reasons. But no one has any illusions that this is the first year such an inequity has existed, and we're not bitter about Tulsa having the tourney. We aren't looking for excuses for the failure of our teams. We'll be watching on selection Sunday to see where you are going to be placed, and I'll be watching on March Madness On-Demand at cstv.com (which is FREE!!!!! this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Southwestern Bell Telephone Pioneers had 87 members volunteer to help the last I heard. This shows how involved the community as a whole was. I think the team hosts were all members of the Golden Eagle Club and most of them took it so far as wearing the other team's apparel and cheering for them when they weren't playing ORU. That is something I haven't seen in other host cities. There were even members of the Tulsa Golden Hurricane Club that volunteered.......this is definitely March Madness!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 We all know that Valpo fans are regular visitors to our board, especially at times like this with the tournament and all, so anything we post on our board will be read by Valpo fans. They know the same thing about us. When Rick posts stuff like that, he knows we'll see it. After reading his posts for the past several years I've learned that they are intended as much to get a reaction from people as they are to express his feelings. I feel pretty certain that's what is going on here. Rick probably believes most, if not all, of what he's saying, but the purpose of saying it now it to antagonize us a little bit. I think we're playing into his game. Am I right, Rick? Just got a chance to come over here and visit. I've been preoccupied with other stuff. Yes you are right. Here is my post on the Valpo board which conveys my sentiments: First, it should made perfectly clear that Valpo did not win the tourney this year because we did not play well and we got beat by a better team. That said, NO ONE in their right mind would argue that there is not an advantage to a team when the tournament is held in their own city. Why does the RPI change for winning away games? Certainly only a moron would suggest that ORU does not have a home court advantage as long as the tourney is in Tulsa. How about we have the conference tournament at Valpo High School for the next four years? Any takers at ORU for that? Surely the home team does not win every game but I think most reasonable people would agree that there is in fact an advantage, slight perhaps, but an advantage nonetheless when the games are at home. Duh!! If this situation is allowed to continue and the games are going to be held in Tulsa from now on, there is no doubt in my mind that ORU will have a home court advantage every year. Why aren't the coaches speaking up? And if they are, why isn't someone at the Mid-Con listening? Bid yes, but be equitable and reasonable. That this was even allowed to happen completely astounds me. Something needs to be done. Seeking equity and fairness is not whining, it's the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Gonzaga and Winthrop both won their tourneys on their HOME courts. They play in better leagues than we do. If it's good enough for Gonzaga then it's good enough for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is what I remember: The Tulsa Sports Commission (not ORU) bid on the Mid-Con Tournament three years ago in order to attract a sporting event to Tulsa. (That is their job.) The Mid-Con rejected the bid - even though it was higher than the bid submitted by Kansas City - because it included the Mabee Center as the venue. The conference schools did not want the tournament played on a member school's home court. The Mid-Con ended up in cavernous Kemper Arena (16,000 seats) and lost money on the tournament. The TSC then re-bid for the next year using the UMAC as a venue. The Pavillion was also contemplated. ORU participated by agreeing to help with volunteers, but the TSC (along with the Mid-Con) is in control of the event. The result has been the two of the best (as defined by attendance) conference tournament the Mid-Con has ever had. My understanding is that until last year, the conference had never made money with the tournament. From a purely financial perspective no one should argue that Tulsa is not the best place. But again I ask, what if it was better financially for the next four or five years to hold it not at Valpo U but at Valpo High School? Any takers from ORU? You can't be serious if you think you don't have a home court advantage. That's complete nonsense and you all know it. We lost to you guys because you have a better team. We did not lose this year because the tourney was in Tulsa. But if there is a close game between ORU and any other team in the Mid-Con, one would have to be completely brainless to suggest that ORU would not have a very large home court advantage for no other reason than Tulsa is in your own city. That has never happened elsewhere in the Mid-Con since championships were held at a "neutral" sites. We had to drive over 250 miles to the Quad and over 100 miles to Ft. Wayne. The Mid-Con originated in the Midwest and although some latecomers to the conference are not located there, most schools are and the venue for the tournament should be at a neutral site close to the Midwest or at least as some have suggested mid-way between all the schools locations. Do any of you claim to make the case that it is fair to have the tourney every year in Tulsa barring the financial argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Gonzaga and Winthrop both won their tourneys on their HOME courts. They play in better leagues than we do. If it's good enough for Gonzaga then it's good enough for us. Ok, I ask you Doctor, how about we play the next 10 years at Valpo High School? If it's good enough for ORU, it's good enough for Valpo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 How about we have the conference tournament at Valpo High School for the next four years? I have to ask, does it seat 5662? Does it have a video scoreboard? Does it offer the MidCon free internet streaming of the games including 16 student volunteers to do the broadcasts? Can you get over 300 volunteers from your community to work the event? Does Valpo have an international airport? Will hotels donate lodging? Since the last 2 years are the first time that the MidCon has turned a profit, would you be willing to guarantee the gate? http://umac.unionps.org/arena.htm Since we drove north for 6 years we could look at Valpo High in 2011. If they have the same quality of facilities, but to my knowledge Union is one of 5 model schools nation wide with a $40 million facility and most of the MidCon schools don't even have that for their home court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoRick Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have to ask, does it seat 6000? Does it have a video scoreboard? Does it offer the MidCon free internet streaming of the games including 16 student volunteers to do the broadcasts? Can you get over 300 volunteers from your community to work the event? Does Valpo have an international airport? Will hotels donate lodging? Since the last 2 years are the first time that the MidCon has turned a profit, would you be willing to guarantee the gate? http://umac.unionps.org/arena.htm Since we drove north for 6 years we could look at Valpo High in 2011. If they have the same quality of facilities, but to my knowledge Union is one of 5 model schools nation wide with a $40 million facility and most of the MidCon schools don't even have that for their home court. For the sake of argument because I don't know the details, if it did meet all of your requirements, would that be ok with ORU to have it at Valpo High School? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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