ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Would have to say Quinton Day is the best player in the conference,,,, He leads the league in steals, assist, and is 2nd in points right now... He is also shooting 42% from the floor right now, which is damn good by a guard.. I know this is the ORU board,, but As a mid-con fan, I get tired of hearing how oppland and Green are the best in the conference when DAY's numbers show he is the best.... I wish he had some help so his team's record would be better..... If his teamates would hit some shots he would be averaging over 8 assist.....Good luck the rest of the year,,, The mid-con comes down to 3 games in march..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 ANDROO, I appreciate your spirit and your sportsmanship. You are enthusiastic about your team, but you go on all of the other active boards around the league and talk basketball, not smack. You're a great Mid-Con fan. However, I have to disagree with your assessment of Quinton Day. First of all, from the Mid-Con Stats page, updated yesterday, he is fourth, not second, in scoring. He's third in total points and fourth in points per game. You are right about him leading in assists and steals, but I doubt that many people would call a guy best in the league because of that. Should steals or assists count for more than rebounds, where Caleb Green dominates? One other place where he leads the conference that you didn't mention is in minutes played. He's on the court more than any other player in the Mid-Con. In fact, Ken Pomeroy ranks him third in the nation in that regard. Don't get me wrong - Quinton Day is obviously a great player, and a dominant player. I just think it's hard to make a case for him being the BEST player. Sportsline has him ranked fifth in league. Ken Pomeroy's new offensive rating doesn't even have him ranked in the top 500 players in the country, while several other Mid-Con players are - including Caleb Green (305) and Dan Oppland (141). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Oppland, and Green are surrounded by really good basketball players, which opens things up for them..Ne one of ORU OR Valpos starters would be our 2nd or 3rd best player...... They both are great basketball players, may be the best in the conference, But I dont see how it is a given... Quinton puts up numbers with no help, and I think it was Ron Hunter who said "DAY is one of the best players if not the best we have seen all year" following the UMKC v.s. IUPUI game.... He was 8-11 from three point range against Oakland..... He is a bg time player in the mid-con... Coming out of High School, he was recruited by the likes USC, Arkansas, Iowa Stae, K- state.. he ended up at USC but was homesick, and Him and Henry Bibby did not get along... I just really think as a mid-con fan, That Day is just as good as Green, and Oppland if not better.. George Hill is another player that may be just as good as the rest..... I would never talk smack on any other board, Just put My input in, to maybe broaden some others about mid-con basketball outside of ORU and VALPO.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You could make a case for POY for several Mid-Con players at this point. Day is undoubtedly a great player. So is Calvin Wooten, who we will get to see Thursday night. Ultimately, it's a subjective decision made by those that get to vote, and their decision may be based on all of the things we've talked about, and maybe none of them. Based on a number of considerations, I'm sticking my neck out (but not too far out), and predicting that Dan Oppland will be voted Player of the Year this year. Whether it's fair or not (in Day's case), that's who I think it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I agree, I think Oppland will win it, SHOULD HE, maybe, maybe not... He is a great player who has paid his dues....My take on Calvin Wooten, you will be dissapointed, reminds me of Michael Watson but not half as good and has a little attitude problem........Good Luck Thursday and look forward to the rest of the season... My all mid-con team up to this point would be, Quinton Day dan oppland Caleb Green royce parran George Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 My take on Calvin Wooten, you will be disappointed, reminds me of Michael Watson but not half as good and has a little attitude problem That's kind of funny, ANDROO. I know you have heard before about the less than warm feelings the good folks of Tulsa have toward Michael and his mom. He was known to taunt the crowd on more than one occasion, and on his last visit he created plenty of ill- will by taking time to go to mid-court and stomp on the Eli emblem after each shot he made. Leaving the court at the end of the game he was yelling obscenities and flipping off the students. His mom got into a shouting match after the game with an ORU fan, and Michael came back out to protect his mom and take on the crowd. It really was a bizarre situation, one not matched in any game either before or after. So when you talk about Wooten having an attitude in the same sentence you mention Michael Watson, it seems really funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Wow,, I have heard a lot of people from ORU talk badly of Michael Watson.... I happened to be in the stands for that situation, and many of the ORU students were yelling profane things at Michael all game... From what i have seen,, Nobody at ORU knows Michael Watson as a person.....I have had the honor of knowing him for the last 7 years... He is a first class citizen, and graduated with a 3.3 gpa in criminal Justice... He has been givin many praises around the country form the likes of Roy WIlliams, Dan Munson, and many others... I realize what happened in Tulsa was a disrespectful act by both teams, and fans... Not saying you,, but many ORU fans have talked bad about Michael Watson as a person,,, and that isnt fair at all... He was liked by his teamates, coaches , and "most" fans... He is a pretty good person, and had a great attitude toward his teamates and coaches... Coach Z, and Coach D both have said he was nothing but a pleasure to coach.. I bet Kampe cant say that about Wooten... Wooten on the other hand seems to get frustrated with coaches and teamates, and seemed to me that he had an attitude problem... Michael Watson had no attitude problem,, Just ask his coach and fellow teamates... It seems to me, that Michael Watson just frustrated ORU fans because he averaged an astonishing 30 sumthin points against ORU in 4 years of playing..... Just because he tore the ORU defence up, year in and year out and took his less then talented team to the mid-con semifinals 3 straight years doesnt seem just to say he had an attitude problem... I am sorry if this sounds biased, but Most UMKC fans that know michael would agree with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You know, every time this subject comes up with a UMKC fan, the response is always the same - that Michael Watson is a nice person and that he is well-liked by everyone. I have no doubt that that is true; but I will say that he didn't represent himself well when at Mabee Center. I guess I won't dignify your last paragraph with a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valpower Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Oppland, and Green are surrounded by really good basketball players, which opens things up for them... Androo, trying to factor a player's teammates into (or out of) the equation for a dubious award, is too subjective and impractical. It'd be like trying to dismiss a running back from receiving another dubious award, the Heisman trophy, because his 3,500 career rushing yards were the product of gaping holes created by his superior offensive line. Ultimately, personal stats and team performance will determine the POY. If UMKC is on top of standings at the end of the regular season and Day's number are still good, then I'd say he has a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 100% agree with you VALPOWER... If UMKC is not in the top 2 or 3, then DAY should not win the award.. Even If UMKC finishes first, i dont think he should automatically get it,, I just think he should be considered equal to OPPLAND and GREEN... No more arguing from me,, I want to get along with everyone, and enjoy the mid-con race... I really do enjoy most mid-con fans, and really respect your thoughts and post TMH and VALPOWER.... LETS ENJOY ANOTHER TIGHT MID-CON RACE....GOOD LUCK ALL.. P.S. ANYONE MAKING THE TRIP TO KANSAS CITY for ORU V.S. UMKC on the 30th????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Eli Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Androo - I can't wait to hear after the game what your take will be on how the Maniacs were received by the UMKC fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUBlue Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Would have to say Quinton Day is the best player in the conference,,,, He leads the league in steals, assist, and is 2nd in points right now... He is also shooting 42% from the floor right now, which is damn good by a guard.. I know this is the ORU board,, but As a mid-con fan, I get tired of hearing how oppland and Green are the best in the conference when DAY's numbers show he is the best.... I wish he had some help so his team's record would be better..... If his teamates would hit some shots he would be averaging over 8 assist.....Good luck the rest of the year,,, The mid-con comes down to 3 games in march..... ANDROO two words for Day......Larry Owens ....will shut him down. Day scored 4pts in 40 minutes vs Missouri, 16pts in the Wichita State, 36 minutes. Good teams handle him. Lets face UMKC hasn't had a tuff schedule so it has helped DAY pad his Stats. But we will see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl VU Fan Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Androo, trying to factor a player's teammates into (or out of) the equation for a dubious award, is too subjective and impractical. It'd be like trying to dismiss a running back from receiving another dubious award, the Heisman trophy, because his 3,500 career rushing yards were the product of gaping holes created by his superior offensive line. Ultimately, personal stats and team performance will determine the POY. If UMKC is on top of standings at the end of the regular season and Day's number are still good, then I'd say he has a shot. Reminds me of the argument this past season for why Andruw Jones should be the MVP in the National League - "He had SOOOOOOOOOO many young guys around him he had to carry the whole load himself, blah, blah, blah." It is a slightly more plausible argument in basketball, where an individual's chance to contribute "points" is much more deeply impacted by the teamwork of his teammates. In baseball, every hitter gets pretty much the same chance to "score points" (get hits, walks, etc.), though the help of teammates is still crucial to an individual scoring runs. Of course it also reminds me of the argument that the MVP should be awarded to a player on a team that makes the playoffs, which I also strongly disagree with, though I suppose in basketball there is slightly more plausibility to that argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDROO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I TRIED BEING FRIENDLY, AND END THE CONVERSATION, BUT CERTAIN ORU FANS ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO FUEL THE FIRE... LETS BRING THE FACTS TO THE TABLE..... Q-DAY'S STATS V.S. ORU 2 GAMES 18 POINTS 4 STEALS 4.5 ASSIST AND 5 REBOUNDS ...... HMMM,, SURE SOUNDS LIKE ORU KNOWS HOW TO SHUT HIM DOWN... iN FACT OUR WHOLE STARTING LINE UP LIT ORU UP 2 TIMES LAST YEAR... ORU 1-6 V.S. UMKC LAST 7 TIMES THEY PLAYED... FUNNY HOW UMKC'S TEAM HAVE NOT BEEN NEARLY AS GOOD AS ORU THE LAST 3 YEARS BUT WE SIMPLY FIND A WAY TO WIN.... I HAVE TO CREDIT SCOTT SUTTON,, HE MAKES UMKC TASK ALOT EASIER.. fAILS TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT.....THANKS SCOTT OUT COACHED,, OUT PLAYED,,,, OUT HUSTLED EVERYTIME YOU PLAY UMKC..... THATS THE BOTTOM LINE WHEN UMKC PLAYS ORU......... IF YOU CANT BEAT UMKC THIS YEAR, I DONT KNOW IF YOU EVER WILL..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 ANDROO, now you're talking trash, and I don't think ANYONE on here, ORU or Valpo fans, talked trash to you. Blue thinks Larry Owens will shut down Day. That's an opinion, not trash talk. No need to lose your cool. I personally am hoping that ORU is able to break the stranglehold you've had on us the past several seasons. I thought we would last year, but Aaron and English had something to say about that. Maybe this year we'll do it. But saying all that stuff you are about your man, Quinton Day, puts a lot of pressure on him when he comes down here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAdder Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Why won't Day win POY? Because it's POY, not MVP. Anyone remember Andrew Wisniewski a few years back? He had no talent around him, heck, I don't think Centenary won a game against a D-1 team last year after he left, he powered them to a #3 seed in the Mid-Con tourney, but it wasn't enough to get POY, Odell Bradley got it that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleFanatic Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Oppland, and Green are surrounded by really good basketball players, which opens things up for them..Ne one of ORU OR Valpos starters would be our 2nd or 3rd best player...... They both are great basketball players, may be the best in the conference, But I dont see how it is a given... Quinton puts up numbers with no help, and I think it was Ron Hunter who said "DAY is one of the best players if not the best we have seen all year"... I would have to think theopposite way. Dont you think if Owens or Tutt or Oppland or Kone played at Centenary or Chicago State, they would obviosly shine there? Yet Green on a team with very talented players can still put up 30+ pts in multiple games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Why won't Day win POY? Because it's POY, not MVP. Anyone remember Andrew Wisniewski a few years back? He had no talent around him, heck, I don't think Centenary won a game against a D-1 team last year after he left, he powered them to a #3 seed in the Mid-Con tourney, but it wasn't enough to get POY, Odell Bradley got it that year. That's a great bit of trivia, Adder!! I'm impressed that you remembered who won POY that far back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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