Old Titan Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Rob, this is exactly what we talked about at breakfast on Thursday. What were you trying to accomplish by putting this on the board? Are you just wanting everyone else to know your stance as well? Hang in there, Mike - serious suggestions along these lines could have been made to you, either in confidence or through Golden Eagle Club channels, over the summer. Recommendations made on November 1st smack of "gotcha" marketing. Nothing like having some old timer saying you should fish with minnows, after he sat there and watched you buy worms without saying a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Hang in there, Mike - serious suggestions along these lines could have been made to you, either in confidence or through Golden Eagle Club channels, over the summer. Recommendations made on November 1st smack of "gotcha" marketing. Nothing like having some old timer saying you should fish with minnows, after he sat there and watched you buy worms without saying a word. (1) Mike, you know I'm absolutely FOR you and NOT against you...my sincere apologies for offending you by posting my thoughts here...didn't give it a second thought and honestly just thought it might add some momentum to your efforts given the folks who read the board... (2) OT, Mike and I talked about this on Thursday morning over coffee AND LAST SPRING over soft drinks...I've posted it here many times before in different words so please before you go throwing stones, please check your facts...frankly, it's absolutely NOT too late to do EXACTLY what I recommended...Mike's challenge is others don't care as much about the issue (selling affordable tickets to fill empty seats) as perhaps they should. Conversely, although I'm not paid to, I absolutely do care; that's why I shared directly with Mike AND here on the message board (which is read by both GEC board members AND university board of trustees) an idea that is worth looking at. The whole "gotcha" idea couldn't be less appealing to me regardless of what an insecure has been like yourself may think. I sell at a high level everyday and happen to know a lot about it...my recommendations come absolutely free of charge and without strings attached... For the record, I'm actually a paying customer who just doubled his GEC contribution for the upcoming season NOT because I'm excited about our home schedule or because I'll even be able to attend more than five of our eleven regular season home games but because I'm supporting something that means a lot to me and always will...it's really too bad you have such difficulty recognizing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Hear, hear!! Now that's one of the best posts I've read on this board in a LONG time! I couldn't agree more ... right out of Chapter 26 in the textbook on fixed and variable costs! I LIKE IT!! Let's get some folks in those empty seats!!! Thanks Count...you're absolutely correct it's basic business principles we're failing to implement and it's not like I'm some new genius or something...I've been saying it in different ways for a long time and while I appreciate your props and recognition of a sound business concept, it's apparently not seen as favorably by insecure folks like OT... Guys let me say this loud and clear, God has blessed me beyond my wildest dreams and I'm doing real well selling in a space that pays way better than selling tickets to mid-major athletics events. I only offer my two cents here because I think it might help, and absolutely not because I'm looking for a "gotcha" opportunity or anything like that. As Mike Carter often says, I've got much bigger fish to fry my friends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I just don't think people buy tickets very often unless they have an emotional tie to the team. I absolutely agree...unless it's the most affordable opportunity to take the family out to an entertainment event that is safe, fun and convenient for the whole family. After they come once or twice, an emotional tie may very well begin to form for many folks. That's what I'm talking about...it's why Chick-fil-A passes out samples of their chicken in the food court at the mall. They know their product will often sell itself if they create an opportunity for a potential customer to try it...stimulate an appetite with a deal that's too affordable to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I believe we have a great product with terrible packaging. AND as we discussed over coffee, a grossly inflated price tag...sorry, but $17 is far too expensive for a single ticket to an ORU basketball game. REMEMBER: offer a BETTER product AND sell it for MUCH LESS money than the competition...new release hit movie at the theatre for $8 or an ORU basketball game vs. Western Illinois for $17? Big 12 Football championship game live in HD on ABC at home/at your favorite sports bar watch party or $17 for ORU vs. UALR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wow, Golden Boy has all the answers. He's sooooooooo smart!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU_Ed Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Saw another Sweat Gold Billboard southbound at about 22nd & Harvard. RJ's face bigger than life. Loved the placement. All the TU people leaving games going south have to pass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wow, Golden Boy has all the answers. He's sooooooooo smart!!! Take it for what it's worth from an "insecure has-been", but I can't wait to see if Barry Hinson also logs on here several weeks after the start of the season with sage advice for Scott Sutton. Doubt it - he's too classy to recklessly second-guess his direct successor in a public forum. For the record, when was I ever a "has"? Can't talk now: have to get back to selling at a mid-major level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Take it for what it's worth from an "insecure has-been", but I can't wait to see if Barry Hinson also logs on here several weeks after the start of the season with sage advice for Scott Sutton. Doubt it - he's too classy to recklessly second-guess his direct successor in a public forum. For the record, when was I ever a "has"? Can't talk now: have to get back to selling at a mid-major level. I prefer to call myself a never-been... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballmangc Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Putting out a quality product every year will help too...a few more times making the NCAA tournament (and eventually winning a game) AND beating cross-town rival TU will help us see attendance increase, but it will be gradual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 How many of us have ever called a phone number on a billboard immediately after seeing it? I've never bought something because of a billboard. Now it might lead me to investigate something, but nobody has ever made money off of me directly because of a billboard. I hired our very own orusenior to do the artwork. He did a very good job for us, and I'll hire him again. The billboard artwork is one of the few things I get to do as far as ticket sales advertising. We actually have 10 billboards each month, and they move to a different location every month. I can't speak for the commercial since I didn't handle it. Others in the department directed and produced it. However, I don't think anyone would be talking about the commercial if it were just a commercial with some slam dunks highlighting our accomplishments. I don't know if TV spots sell season tickets. I could see them making people aware of upcoming games. I think the point of a season ticket spot just lets people know that basketball is here. I just wanted to make sure that our ticket number and website address was visible throughout the entire commercial. Too many people have DVR now and fast forward through commercials. So at least you can see something that might grab your attention while skipping commercials. The main point of the commercial was to make sure people were aware of our number and website. I agree that we all want to see MANY more people at ORU basketball games. Let's be honest with ourselves though. How many people care about ORU basketball? We have a low percentage of alumni that even purchase season tickets. Probably 75% of our booster club membership is made up of non-ORU graduates. We have over 5,000 households in the Tulsa area that have an ORU graduate. That alone should fill the lower level each night. So we basically have to throw out the majority of ORU alumni since they don't support their own school for the most part. So let's look at the Oilers game last night. How many of those people attending just went to the game to see the arena or to drink beer at a sporting event? How many of those people actually went to watch Oilers hockey? Another thing to consider in the sports business is how often does anyone actually purchase a ticket? I put ORU in a category closer to the Drillers, Oilers, Talons, etc. instead of comparing us to TU. People often get tickets through their employer or a connection of a friend. The key, in my opinion, is for ORU to sell many more tickets to local employers. I just don't think people buy tickets very often unless they have an emotional tie to the team. We could give away 5,000 tickets away each night and maybe half would use them. That is much better than empty seats. It also will make money for concessions and the gift store. I know the needed cure for our attendance and ticket revenue issues runs much deeper, and the remedy needs to be much stronger than the suggested promotion. I'll leave it at that... Rob, this is exactly what we talked about at breakfast on Thursday. What were you trying to accomplish by putting this on the board? Are you just wanting everyone else to know your stance as well? I want to promote the hell out of ORU basketball, and I want to advertise like crazy. However, my budget is terrible. I believe that any business should use a % of gross profit for the advertising budget, but that is not how things operate here or most institutions. The advertising budget at ORU has been pretty small. We depend on trade deals way too much. You get what you pay for in this world. I believe we have a great product with terrible packaging. Mike, I just wanted to say that I'm with you and I think that the vast majority of the board is too. At the same time, I think that we are concerned about the attendance situation at games and in the spirit of trying to help with whatever ideas we can come up with, we are posting our thoughts and adding them to the discussion. Most of what you see here, you might laugh about because it's so silly and a lot of the rest of it won't work because of some reason known perhaps only to yourself. I continue making suggestions though and hope others do likewise on the off chance that something we say may spark a new idea that might help. Not to say anything I think would be tantamount to giving up and I wasn't taught that where I went to school. Unfortunately (but not necessarily) your job is so front and centre that it might seem like criticism when something is said. As far as I'm concerned though, it's not. Take the wheat and sift out the chaff. We're for ya, and not agin ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I prefer to call myself a never-been... The funny thing is, I never said the suggestions being made were without merit. In fact, they're intriguing. But the timing of this manifesto, and they way it appears to throw MM and the ORU athletic department marketing effort under the bus, just as it pulls away from the station for a season-long trip, is terrible. We've all seen it before: after a typically small and earnest group of people have worked long and hard to come up with a plan to address a myriad of complicated, intertwined problems, one person; good intentioned or not, with little prior involvement with the project, and absolutely no intention of following through on their suggestions; starts throwing around half-baked, unproven and unfunded new ideas in the 11th hour, totally undermining the hard work that has preceded it. I'm speaking, of course, about the current presidential campaign. Seriously, to quote Bob Woodward, to Carl Bernstein after he discovered Bernstein was re-writing Woodward's stories in All The President's Men: "I don't mind what you did - I mind the way you did it." So, once again, I say: Hang in there, Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 A lot of coaches in general don't like to hear this, but opponent matters. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of attendance boost we get next year when we host Missouri, New Mexico and Tulsa. Also, ORU basketball isn't the hot ticket it was four or five years ago. We've become yesterday's news. That happens in towns like Tulsa where we have lots of competition for a small amount of consumers. We were the hot ticket in 2004-05 and 2005-06 because we were new and fresh; we hadn't been consistently successful for over 20 years. Now it's like a "ho-hum" attitude toward. Wait and see what happens in the media this year. Everyone's excited about OU and TU, and OSU has a new coach. That's exciting. We're somewhat boring. It's "same-old, same-old" at ORU. Scott Sutton is back for his 10th year (ho-hum). ORU is the conference favroite again (yawn). The home schedule is pretty bad (zzzzz). That's the attitude. We have a lot to be proud of on the inside, but to the outside it's a case of "second verse, same as the first". We're not the only game in town. This stuff is cyclical, it'll come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Big Brother Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 The funny thing is, I never said the suggestions being made were without merit. In fact, they're intriguing. But the timing of this manifesto, and they way it appears to throw MM and the ORU athletic department marketing effort under the bus, just as it pulls away from the station for a season-long trip, is terrible. We've all seen it before: after a typically small and earnest group of people have worked long and hard to come up with a plan to address a myriad of complicated, intertwined problems, one person; good intentioned or not, with little prior involvement with the project, and absolutely no intention of following through on their suggestions; starts throwing around half-baked, unproven and unfunded new ideas in the 11th hour, totally undermining the hard work that has preceded it. I'm speaking, of course, about the current presidential campaign. Seriously, to quote Bob Woodward, to Carl Bernstein after he discovered Bernstein was re-writing Woodward's stories in All The President's Men: "I don't mind what you did - I mind the way you did it." So, once again, I say: Hang in there, Mike! OT-- Consider the source, man. Consider the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 QUOTE: I believe we have a great product with terrible packaging. i have to call BS on that one. i would recommend anyone that wants to bang on the marketing staff to look up the home schedule... John Brown UALR ...that's it for non-conf. then we get the scintillating summit schedule (nice alliteration). Centenary IPFW Oakland UNKC SUU WIU IUPUI SDSU NDSU ...no billboard, commercial, ad campaign, or "marketing genius/salesman" is going to pack the house w/that schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 ...no billboard, commercial, ad campaign, or "marketing genius/salesman" is going to pack the house w/that schedule. Couldn't agree with you more UNLESS you price it right and use the before mentioned mediums to target the right audiences...right now I'm not sure we're doing that, what says you?... Families who are looking for a fun and affordable night out during tough economic times for a lot of folks would find it much more appealing at an appropriate price tag. You're absolutely correct, that schedule is not worth $17 a ticket...but it is worth $2.50 or $3 a ticket. The product is more than the match-up on the court...it's the band, the cheerleaders, the gimmicks and promotions, the bells and whistles...it's the FREE parking and a safe and convenient South Tulsa location...so on that, I have to agree with Mike Minyard, regardless of the opponent, it's still a great family entertainment product. We're just pricing it like it's TU vs. Memphis or Oklahoma vs. Davidson...if/when we right price it and expose people to it, it will sell. So if one wants to interpret me as "banging on the marketing staff" here, please understand I know they have nothing to do with the schedule...that's not their fault and in no way am I suggesting they're to blame for that. But it is someone's fault if tickets aren't packaged and priced appropriately to make it more appealing to folks outside our standard fan base. We're going to get and keep our 1,500-2,000 loyal ORU fans...I'm suggesting we try to reach out and expose our product to people who aren't going to pay $68 for their family of four to attend a game but would pay $10. Thinking of it terms of politics, we've got our base secure...we need to grow our support by reaching out to undecided folks who are looking for an affordable entertainment option and might find our product appealing if given the opportunity. We're insane though if we just do the same thing (expensive ticket prices) year after year and expect a different result... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballmangc Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I don't know...how many times have you picked up free tickets from QuikTrip for the Tulsa Drillers...and then actually used them? I know at least a dozen times i've gotten "free" tickets and not gone. And in my opinion for most games there are plenty of ways to already get cheaper that $17 a ticket anyway from ORU promotions. Last year there were tons of promotions offering cheaper tickets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I don't know...how many times have you picked up free tickets from QuikTrip for the Tulsa Drillers...and then actually used them? I know at least a dozen times i've gotten "free" tickets and not gone. And in my opinion for most games there are plenty of ways to already get cheaper that $17 a ticket anyway from ORU promotions. Last year there were tons of promotions offering cheaper tickets... $17 a ticket is almost like a "suggested retail price" - no one should have to pay that with any effort at all, if they don't want to. First off, season tickets are quite a bit less per seat than the single game ticket price. That's your best value, and there are a variety of options from which to choose, especially for families. Virtually every home game also includes a BOGO (Buy One, Get One Free) promotion, or an outright free ticket giveaway, plus there are season-long coupons out there all over the place for BOGO's and/or dollars off a ticket. In the case of an ORU game, anyone who pony's up $17 a ducat either didn't try to save their money, or doesn't really care. Those types (and there aren't that many) would probably pay even more if they wanted to go to the game that badly. A lot of the marketing effort is a combination of tried-and-true ticket plans that schools of all sizes have used for years, along with some new tweaks from other programs, athletic marketing seminars, etc. It's not like it's done in a cave with just a calendar, a pocket calculator, and a Quija board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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