tmh8286 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Rob, first of all I want to say I like Barry. I really do. I mean nothing negative in the things that I said. I have followed the Bears ever since he left here to coach them. I've even emailed him from time to time over the years to congratulate him or whatever. I can't speak for what oruvoice means by "an ORU guy", but here's what I mean by it: he's loyal to the purpose and mission of the University. It means something different than just winning games. You know all these guys personally - I don't. So I only know how things appear from the outside. As much as I liked Barry when he was here, he didn't strike me that way. Sutton and Crew, for whatever it's worth, do. I think most of us realize that Scott Sutton may bolt if he gets a golden opportunity to move up the ladder, and I don't think that anyone is going to resent him if he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 When you say "ORU guy," what exactly do you mean? What does an "ORU guy" look like? Is he an ORU graduate? Is he a charismatic Christian who speaks in tongues and believes in the seed faith message? Does he cringe at the thought of drinking a beer or other alcoholic beverage? What is an "ORU guy"??? That's easy - here ya go: ...if that isn't Brother Bob Stamps, campus chaplain from back in my day, then it's District Attorney and ORU grad Tim Harris. Either way, close enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 That's easy - here ya go: ...if that isn't Brother Bob Stamps, campus chaplain from back in my day, then it's District Attorney and ORU grad Tim Harris. Either way, close enough! Now THAT is funny OT! But really, too much hair to be Tim Harris (perhaps back in his ORU days though) today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If winning 26 games and a share of the Mid Con regular season championship is "mediocre" Mike, how do you define ORU's level of success in the eight seasons since Hinson left? Seven (7) years of mediocrity or below and one season of success (2005-06)? You really can't compare apples to apples in looking at the Mid Con vs. the Valley, agree? The Bears have been jobbed twice (2) on NCAA tournament appearances during Barry's tenure and arguably could have been invited another year too. And Mike, being the insider that you are, you understand why Hinson left ORU, and it's NOT because he didn't like ORU or wasn't an "ORU guy" as you're trying to paint him out to be. As much as Barry was hired by Bill Self (and on his coat tails), he was hired by Richard Roberts as ORU's "head coach designate" and Self's top assistant when Bill came to ORU. They were introduced together at the press conference and both interviewed with the hiring committee. Barry actually really likes ORU and the Roberts family, he still cheers for ORU to win every game. Barry never won 26 games at ORU. He won like 18 & 19 respectively. That IS mediocre, yes sir. He's not an ORU guy because he bolted after two mediocre years for a very small step up. If he leaves for a big step up or after he really accomplished something big, then I have no grudge. Like Self, he did something BIG at ORU and was ready to go. No problem! If Scott leaves after this season, with an NIT and two straight NCAA appearances, no problem! Good luck Scott! In my humble opinion, Barry did very little for ORU. I'm not mad at him. I don't hate the guy, but I feel NO PITY for him WHATSOEVER. He bolted for Springfield Missouri and got a nice pay check for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Now THAT is funny OT! But really, too much hair to be Tim Harris (perhaps back in his ORU days though) today! "Hi-dee-ho there, neighbor!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Yes some of our fans have been a little to quick to want Barry out. I have been a big Barry fan but 8years and no NCAA's is to long. The MVC can get at large bids so its not like he has just had bad luck and not won the MVC tourny. This is the most talent we have ever had and the same things happen every single year. We start out great and look to have a good chance to do good in the MVC then we go through a January lull that kills us every year. This team is built to run, run, and run some more and we play to those strengths at the start of the year and once something gets a little hard he switchs to a slow down defensive game plan. Eville game one- we run, run, run and win 106-to 50 something Eville game two- we slow down, we lose and only score in the 50's This is why we lost the SLU game too, he slowed the pase down and this team cant play like that. This happens every year. Its time for a change. Like only one other team hasnt been the the NCAA's in the Valley in Barry's 8 years. This isnt to high of expectations, we have a much better program then to be lumped in that group. Yes we got snubed last year but still almost doesnt count. Barry said that we didnt need to win the first game of the Valley tourny to make the NCAA's, guess what we lost and didnt get in. You win that game and we go. This is another reason fans are getting tired of it. He says stupid stuff like that. I could go on and on. I like the guy, he is very nice and a good family man and I wish it could work out but I just dont see it working. Two things ... (1) Evansville just beat SIU at home prior to playing the Bears, so IN Evansville the Aces can and will beat a lot of very good teams and (2) teams, even explosive offensive teams, will have off nights offensively (shoot poorly and/or be stiffled by an opponents outstanding defensive effort) but there is never an excuse to be poor defensively or to rebound poorly or to have unforced turnovers. Yesterday at Evansville, the Bears outrebounded the Aces 34-24, had 11 steals (Eville made 14 turnovers so ONLY 3 unforced TOs by the Aces) to 5 steals for Eville (and the Bears committed 16 TOs; 11 unforced!). Additionally, the Bears committed 25 fouls to Eville's 14 for the game and the Aces hit 21-30 FTs to the Bears' 6-9! MSU was a pathetic 4-21 from 3pt range. Bottom line, the defensive effort and rebounding was there to win, but poor shooting and ball handling along with some unfavorable officiating did MSU in at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Barry never won 26 games at ORU. He won like 18 & 19 respectively. That IS mediocre, yes sir. He's not an ORU guy because he bolted after two mediocre years for a very small step up. If he leaves for a big step up or after he really accomplished something big, then I have no grudge. Like Self, he did something BIG at ORU and was ready to go. No problem! If Scott leaves after this season, with an NIT and two straight NCAA appearances, no problem! Good luck Scott! In my humble opinion, Barry did very little for ORU. I'm not mad at him. I don't hate the guy, but I feel NO PITY for him WHATSOEVER. He bolted for Springfield Missouri and got a nice pay check for doing so. Typo, 36 games (and I meant over two seasons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 He's not an ORU guy because he bolted after two mediocre years for a very small step up. If he leaves for a big step up or after he really accomplished something big, then I have no grudge. Like Self, he did something BIG at ORU and was ready to go. No problem! In my humble opinion, Barry did very little for ORU. I'm not mad at him. I don't hate the guy, but I feel NO PITY for him WHATSOEVER. He bolted for Springfield Missouri and got a nice pay check for doing so. Barry was right in the middle of everything he and Self did together at ORU. He served ORU for six (6) years (representing 91 victories in those six seasons) and won the university a share of their first Mid Con regular season championship as head coach. He continues to prove that he is a solid recruiter (MSU has their most talented team ever in the history of basketball there - all Bears fans admit that regardless of their feelings about Hinson). He doesn't want anyone's pity, so no worries. He's done a heckuva job at Missouri State and he'll eventually move on and win games somewhere else too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If he's such a friend of ORU, then how come we don't go home & home with them? We HURT for good home & home opponents and they are two hours away. Hmmmm????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 He won like 18 & 19 respectively. That IS mediocre, yes sir. And that's fine, I don't necessarily disagree with you on what "mediocre" is, but you didn't answer my question ... THEN HOW DO YOU DEFINE THE LEVEL OF ORU's SUCCESS IN MEN'S BASKETBALL IN THE EIGHT ( SEASONS SINCE HINSON LEFT? Mediocre or below until the last two (2) seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Typo, 36 games (and I meant over two seasons). 36 wins in two years as head coach.....my point is made. And, no post season games? Not even an NIT season? VERY MEDIOCRE. Mediocre at BEST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 36 wins in two years as head coach.....my point is made. And, no post season games? Not even an NIT season? VERY MEDIOCRE. Mediocre at BEST. Bill Self only won 55 games in four seasons (13.75 per year) at ORU. And going into this season, Scott Sutton had won 121 games in seven seasons (17.29 per year) at ORU. So if 18 wins a year makes Hinson mediocre, what does that make Self and Sutton? Mikey, let's drill down a little deeper ... Hinson's conference records are: 22-8 (.733) in 2 seasons in the Mid Con (2nd & 1st respectively) and was 2-2 in the Mid Con tournament (losing twice in the championship game) and at Missouri State, Hinson is 75-51 (.595) during 7 seasons in the Valley (he's finished 2nd, 7th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 5th, and 2nd in arguably the best "mid-major" conference in D-I men's basketball) and has an 8-7 (.533) record in the Valley tournament (lost the championship game three times). He's 4-3 (.571) in the NIT. Barry's overall combined regular season conference record is 97-59 (.622) combining his Mid Con and Missouri Valley records over nine (9) years. To me, if you want to be critical of Coach Hinson, he's 0-5 in conference tournament championship games. Perhaps 2007 is the year of vindication for guys with reputations for always losing the big game. Peyton Manning won a big one yesterday and he's got an even bigger one on February 4th in Miami. Perhaps if Peyton can do it in "the city where the heat is on," then Barry will be able to do the same in the STL on March4th! Sutton's Mid Con record is 70-36 (.660) in 7 seasons in the Mid Con (he's finished 5th, 7th, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, 1st and 1st). Mid Con tournament record is 8-6 (.571) with one (1) tournament championship and one runner-up. Scott's 0-1 (.000) in the NIT and 0-1 (.000) in the NCAA during his seven seasons. Any comments, Mikey? You're awfully critical of Barry yet his numbers are better than Scott's, so can we deduct that you think Scott has done at best a mediocre job too? My appeal is simply for fair balance. If you don't care for Barry Hinson as a person, fine, but if you want to call him "mediocre at best," then just realize you're calling Scott mediocre at best too by doing so. Bottom line, I think they both have grown and developed into very solid D-I head coaches and both will win many more games for their respective programs (now and beyond). Both Barry and Scott are better today than when they started their D-I head coaching careers seven and nine years ago respectively. I predict they both will coach in the NCAA tournament this season and depending on ORU's seed, both could win a game or two and make a sweet sixteen appearance. When/if that happens, they both will most likely be offered "too good to turn down" type deals from "bigger programs" and both Missouri State and ORU could well be hiring new head coaches in April 07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Scott and staff have steadily improved. Re-read your own post and you will see their steady improvements. When Scott was hired, those of us who know, knew there was going to be a learning curve. Same with your boy "Slick Willie". STEADY IMPROVEMENTS! Barry wasn't here long enough and he left the ORU program in worse shape than when he got it. Both Self and Sutton have improved the ORU situation. Barry simply opportunistically used ORU to advance his career. In addition, Scott is MUCH MORE of an 'ORU guy'. While sometimes I think Scott needs to "go off" on officials or be more "animated" on the sidelines, his demeanor and personality is more of a representation of ORU values, than his two predecessors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Scott and staff have steadily improved. Re-read your own post and you will see their steady improvements. When Scott was hired, those of us who know, knew there was going to be a learning curve. Same with your boy "Slick Willie". STEADY IMPROVEMENTS! Barry wasn't here long enough and he left the ORU program in worse shape than when he got it. Both Self and Sutton have improved the ORU situation. Barry simply opportunistically used ORU to advance his career. In addition, Scott is MUCH MORE of an 'ORU guy'. While sometimes I think Scott needs to "go off" on officials or be more "animated" on the sidelines, his demeanor and personality is more of a representation of ORU values, than his two predecessors. I completely agree with you and that's why I said it first (in my own words, and I said it about both Hinson and Scott Sutton); Scott has made steady improvements and clearly signing Green and Tutt had everything to do with that; once they are out of eligibility after this season, ORU has players in place (currently on the roster and/or commitments from recruits) to continue to win the Mid Con and ultimately make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis ... which is exactly what ORU fans should expect given the strength of the league and potential at ORU. Will ORU be "as good" or "even better" once Green and Tutt are gone, perhaps ... we'll find that out soon enough, but until then there is plenty of this season left to enjoy. We've hammered this horse too many times to revisit it again now, but once again I will remind you that the team Hinson left at ORU returned FIVE (5) STARTERS from the defending Mid Con regular season champions and that team finished only 13-17 and fifth (5th) in the league under Sutton. The following season, ORU dropped to 10-19 and finished seventh (7th) in the conference, and from there it's been a gradual climb up to the top of the league where Golden Eagle basketball belongs in the Mid Con and exactly where ORU was when Barry left. Looking at what Hinson did at Missouri State in a similar yet arguably worse situation, he inherited a team with THREE (3) returning senior starters (from a team that lost FIVE co-captains to graduation, including the Bears' very talented big in the middle, Danny Moore) from a 22-11 Sweet Sixteen team (Alford's only NCAA team at SMS). Barry won 23 games with that team and went 13-5 in the Valley to finish in second (2nd) place (won ten straight to finish the regular season with a RPI of 34 and was snubbed by the NCAA). Hinson's second year at SMS was a "rebuilding" year where his finished 13-16 overall, and 8-10 in the Valley (7th place out of ten schools) - both represent Hinson's ONLY sub - .500 records during his seven (7) seasons in Springfield. Alford arguably "left the cupboard" more bare at SMS, and still many around ORU like to blame Hinson for the fall off in Golden Eagle basketball after Barry left. The biggest difference though is this, Sutton and Hankins were on the ORU staff with Hinson from day one so the transition at ORU should have been much more seamless than the one at SMS. Ultimately, I'm tired of people around ORU unfairly putting the blame all on Hinson for ORU's lull in men's basketball success after his departure. Simply said, it's not completely accurate or fair balanced at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blevins Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Can't you two guys just pick up the phone and call each other? This thread is reminiscent of some the HugeORUFan and orumom back-and-forths! Just talk at the dinner table for cryin' out loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Can't you two guys just pick up the phone and call each other? This thread is reminiscent of some the HugeORUFan and orumom back-and-forths! Just talk at the dinner table for cryin' out loud! Great point, CB; I told Mikey I'd buy him lunch or, so I'll call him and set that up ... or better yet, I can just ask him here ... Mike, how about lunch this Friday, are you available to join me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTex Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 once again I will remind you that the team Hinson left at ORU returned FIVE (5) STARTERS from the defending Mid Con regular season champions and that team finished only 13-17 and fifth (5th) in the league under Sutton. Chad Wilkerson and Blake Moses were seniors in 1998-99, Hinson's last year. They weren't starters? Edit to add: and Chad was the Mid-Con Player of the Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I told Mikey I'd buy him lunch or, so I'll call him and set that up ... or better yet, I can just ask him here ... Mike, how about lunch this Friday, are you available to join me? ...I think we should ALL meet for lunch this Friday - and if Rob's not buying, then "Six-Figure Voice" should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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