eagle88 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Assuming we lose Thompson, McBride and Weaver next year which is a huge part of our team and we retain most everyone else how do we replace these quality players? The obvious answer is the portal. Before we go there how much do players at say a good team like Weber State make on NIL $? It seems to me that next year will be crucial to raise and allocate NIL $ if we want a similar team to what we are used to. If anyone has an answer to the Weber State question it would be easier to know what we need to cough up to keep a competitive team. Moving forward it may become much more rare to retain players like Thompson, McBride and Weaver without paying them more. Springman really has his work cut out for him as like never before $ is a key factor. One intangible asset Springman has going for him is his impeccable integrity. I know him to be extremely honest with his players and he never promises something he can’t deliver. A perfect example of this is Patrick Mwamba. He was promised $60k to transfer to Loyola and to my source’s knowledge has received 0$ and has not played the role and minutes he was promised. So how we balance the integrity strength with raising adequate funds may very well be the key to our future success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasgrip Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 #tooearly 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Hopefully ORU can put together an NIL package to keep McBride one last season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Here’s hoping ORU, like other small schools over the past century, will remember that they have other qualities with which to attract student-athletes while enjoying meaningful success, as opposed to throwing money at the supposed “problem”. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Whatever works…. I’m not picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Old Titan Posted January 8 Popular Post Share Posted January 8 Case in point: when I was in college in the 80’s, every program was convinced they just HAD to have glamorous, stand-alone athletic dormitories that on some campuses rivaled 4-star hotels. Fast forward 45 years, and ORU’s sparkly athletic dorm from that time is now the Stovall Administrative Building. Artificial turf, indoor practice facilities, private jets, new conference affiliations, yada, yada, yada - there’s always something that weak coaches and ineffective athletic directors at programs large and small claim they must have in order to be successful, and that gullible donors are willing to waste their money on. Meanwhile, Florida Atlantic makes the Final Four this past season after giving their prospects tours of their football locker room because the basketball locker room was so pitiful. Bottom line: the players you really need, the guys & gals that are going to give their all and stick with the program, are the ones (and their families) who are more attracted to good coaches who care about them and make them better, a great campus culture that emphasizes personal growth, and last but not least, the opportunity to play. And let the ones who simply have their hand out go somewhere else to matriculate. They’re the ones that are just going to transfer in a season or two for the proverbial thirty pieces of silver anyway… 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 45 minutes ago, Old Titan said: Case in point: when I was in college in the 80’s, every program was convinced they just HAD to have glamorous, stand-alone athletic dormitories that on some campuses rivaled 4-star hotels. Fast forward 45 years, and ORU’s sparkly athletic dorm from that time is now the Stovall Administrative Building. Artificial turf, indoor practice facilities, private jets, new conference affiliations, yada, yada, yada - there’s always something that weak coaches and ineffective athletic directors at programs large and small claim they must have in order to be successful, and that gullible donors are willing to waste their money on. Meanwhile, Florida Atlantic makes the Final Four this past season after giving their prospects tours of their football locker room because the basketball locker room was so pitiful. Bottom line: the players you really need, the guys & gals that are going to give their all and stick with the program, are the ones (and their families) who are more attracted to good coaches who care about them and make them better, a great campus culture that emphasizes personal growth, and last but not least, the opportunity to play. And let the ones who simply have their hand out go somewhere else to matriculate. They’re the ones that are just going to transfer in a season or two for the proverbial thirty pieces of silver anyway… We should wish it were that easy to attract a kid to a school - just on its merit rather than its money. If we pick up a kid from the transfer portal, many times their first question(s) will be do I get an NIL agreement. How long this lasts will be as long as the NCAA decides NOT to do revenue-sharing or employee/employer arrangements (most likely through third party arrangements). The Universities will stiff-arm sharing revenues - and especially making student-athletes employees of their universities - as long as they can, but the schools are not going to win the legal battles that loom. We have to be prepared to "play ball" with the "talent pool marketplace" or see the level of talent diminish as the bigger schools will be able to compete at a higher level. It is possible that we may be able to continue to keep players like McBride, Bedford, etc., but it will be because they want to stay here because they have seen life in the Power 5 (now Power 4), but it won't be because ORU is going to be able to provide the financial reward for their skill set they may be seeking. The schools that are going to be most affected by the NIL will be schools like Tulsa and FCS schools - small schools with football. There is not enough donor money for them to compete long-term for the high school/JUCO/transfer kids. I will be surprised if TU can keep a competitive football team at the D-1 level on the field for the long-term. They will be a stepping stone for the bigger schools to allow marginal talent to develop and move on to the bigger schools (i.e., a collegiate farm system). As a matter of fact, it may end up being the model that all mid-major schools must take to give student-athletes a longer time to develop so that they can attract the attention and "big bucks" of a larger school. Not unlike hiring an up-and-coming junior college or major college assistant coach to give him his first head coaching job to show that he can recruit and compete (e.g., Bill Self, Barry Henson, Paul Mills, etc.). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Recruiting has never been easy; but somehow ORU has managed for 50 years to land its fair share of prospects in all sports, despite never even being close to the big boys when it comes to the arms race. Wonder how/why that is? There's nothing new under the sun with NIL, or the next great supposed game-changer that will eventually roll down the pike. Just another opportunity for some "Guerilla Marketing" (great business book from the 80's) for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Connor Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 7 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said: Hopefully ORU can put together an NIL package to keep McBride one last season Coach Springmann has stated several times that when he became head coach, McBride told him he was staying at ORU and he didn’t need any NIL money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2014Grad Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I think the Juco and transfer route may end up being the way we get quality players. Players like Bedford who are leaving a situation and hungry to prove themselves, but arnt highly recruited to demand NIL. We will lose some good recruits to NIL, Christians and young men of “high integrity” need money too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 22 hours ago, eagle88 said: Assuming we lose Thompson, McBride and Weaver next year which is a huge part of our team and we retain most everyone else how do we replace these quality players? The obvious answer is the portal. Before we go there how much do players at say a good team like Weber State make on NIL $? It seems to me that next year will be crucial to raise and allocate NIL $ if we want a similar team to what we are used to. If anyone has an answer to the Weber State question it would be easier to know what we need to cough up to keep a competitive team. Moving forward it may become much more rare to retain players like Thompson, McBride and Weaver without paying them more. Springman really has his work cut out for him as like never before $ is a key factor. One intangible asset Springman has going for him is his impeccable integrity. I know him to be extremely honest with his players and he never promises something he can’t deliver. A perfect example of this is Patrick Mwamba. He was promised $60k to transfer to Loyola and to my source’s knowledge has received 0$ and has not played the role and minutes he was promised. So how we balance the integrity strength with raising adequate funds may very well be the key to our future success. There is no way Loyola was going to give Mwamba $60K. Someone sold him a bag of goods on that one. He got very bad advice if someone believed that. Heck, Abmas only got $75K from TX i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I've heard somewhere (maybe it was on this board!) that Vanover was promised more than he received at Missouri as well. I have no idea how deals are made for NIL money, but it seems as though an eager coach can promise the moon to a desired player only to back out of their end of the deal without consequence. I'd think that players need some sort of protection from such dealings if there isn't something in place already. I've been haunted by the image of McBride under the arm of the smiling Coach Tang at Kanas State a few weeks ago . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 43 minutes ago, darrenj said: There is no way Loyola was going to give Mwamba $60K. Someone sold him a bag of goods on that one. He got very bad advice if someone believed that. Heck, Abmas only got $75K from TX i believe. The promises made to Patrick were myriad and ultimately all deceptive: Summer employment with a Canadian-based company to circumvent the hurdles that foreign players face legally for employment (didn't happen). Promises of somewhere between $60-80K in NIL money (hasn't happened). Assurance he would be a starter (buried down the bench so far the entire season) His and Connor Vanover's experience with the portal this season should be required reading for furure ORU letterwinners contempleting greener grass. 3 minutes ago, tmh8286 said: I've heard somewhere (maybe it was on this board!) that Vanover was promised more than he received at Missouri as well. I have no idea how deals are made for NIL money, but it seems as though an eager coach can promise the moon to a desired player only to back out of their end of the deal without consequence. I'd think that players need some sort of protection from such dealings if there isn't something in place already. I've been haunted by the image of McBride under the arm of the smiling Coach Tang at Kanas State a few weeks ago . . . Coaches have the perfect excuse after the player is in the fold, "Hey I'm trying, but I don't have any control over that; it's all handled by 'The Collective'. Just hang in there and we'll get it done." Next thing you know, the season is over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 53 minutes ago, darrenj said: There is no way Loyola was going to give Mwamba $60K. Someone sold him a bag of goods on that one. He got very bad advice if someone believed that. Heck, Abmas only got $75K from TX i believe. Max is making $300k at UT. I know everyone wants to think you shouldn’t have to break the bank for good players and that they should want to come to a school simply for a coach and a culture, but that’s not the reality. Anyone that thinks McBride is not making the most NIL on this ORU team is living in la-la land also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Both Mwanda and Vanover cost themselves a lot of future income. Neither one is playing a lot of minutes - which will make it a lot tougher to get on a pro basketball team overseas. I’ve heard that the amount of money collected/earned by players is highly inflated by the players themselves as they try to inflate their importance. Hard to get a true read on what these players are really getting. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, GoldenEagleFan said: Max is making $300k at UT. Source on that? And please don't merely reference that On3.com "NIL Valuation" page; that thing is a joke. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 If youre asking if his (or any players’) NIL is documented somewhere online, it’s not. But I know what All-Conference / POY players are going for out of the portal and what Big 12 teams can pay. And it’s much closer to $300k than it is to $100k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle88 Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 42 minutes ago, Old Titan said: The promises made to Patrick were myriad and ultimately all deceptive: Summer employment with a Canadian-based company to circumvent the hurdles that foreign players face legally for employment (didn't happen). Promises of somewhere between $60-80K in NIL money (hasn't happened). Assurance he would be a starter (buried down the bench so far the entire season) His and Connor Vanover's experience with the portal this season should be required reading for furure ORU letterwinners contempleting greener grass. Coaches have the perfect excuse after the player is in the fold, "Hey I'm trying, but I don't have any control over that; it's all handled by 'The Collective'. Just hang in there and we'll get it done." Next thing you know, the season is over... According to a source I will not name but I trust 100% Max is making $240k at Texas. The comments about Patrick are accurate according to my source as well. In my opinion we have a dichotomy. There will be REAL $ in the NIL that we at ORU will have to deal with at some level and yes the intangibles like having an ethical honest coach that will not lie or deceive players will be HUGE or as Trump would say Yuge!! There is a paradigm shift going on in the world at large and college basketball will not be exempt from it. Just like in business everyone has a market value. Every player has a market value. For some like Max who become superstars their value will be high and most likely if we land an underrated player who becomes a Max we won't be able to retain and afford him. However for the other players who are really good it will cost something monetarily to keep them or lure them to ORU. This being said it might be for example $10-30k a year or for some a car deal, etc. I am in no way shape or form arguing that intangibles will not play a part moving forward. I have thought for years that ORU in some ways has an advantage being a safe, Christian environment unlike most colleges today. If we want an average mid major program then NIL $ may not be very important. If we want a team comparable or better than the sweet 16 and last year's team then yes NIL $ or incentives will be important. And yes current and future players would be wise to carefully study players like Patrick and Connor. In my opinion the next step will be for players to hire an attorney and get a guarantee. I would suspect Max did this and when enough $ is involved and players learn how others have been screwed they will protect themselves. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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