theeagleman5 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Now THAT is some VERY good analysis.....^^^^^^ and the major reason why we can't seem to win big games on the road.....TheEagleman is a supporter of Coach Mills but the man can be stubborn.....maybe OT and I can get him to go out for a cold one so we can pick his brain..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORob1 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Looks like we took 18 3-point attempts in the first half. Below are screen grabs of 11 of them with not one rebounder inside the arc-Zero. Not only is there not one Golden Eagle in the paint-THEY'RE ALL BEHIND THE 3 POINT LINE!!! There was 3 or 4 times one of our guys (either Vanover or Weaver were inside the arc). One of those rare times Weaver was actually in good position to grab a potential rebound, but PHIPPS shot an airball and it went directly out of bounds without anyone getting a hand on it. Geez--Is the game plan to just shoot threes at 80-90%. As players are they not taught to crash the board as shots go up? As a shooter are they not aware that NOT ONE teammate is in position to rebound a missed shot? Would someone with a higher basketabll IQ than mine, please explain this to me? Below is 11 of the 18 shots we took from deep. The second half was no better. On at least two separate occasions, I saw Max & McBride, run toward the shooter and away from the basket as the shot was going up-maybe to get back on defense, I get that but, with all five guys behind the arc, it shouldn't be as urgent to get back on D, as it would be if the other 3-4 Eagles were in position for rebounds. SMDH. I think it's ridiculous and a very bad game plan, but hey, what do I know...I'm just a dumb sales guy. A really depressed, frustrated, dumb, sales guy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORob1 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 ....and another thing, USU had 2 and sometimes 3 guys ready to get rebounds when the Aggies were launching bombs. Almost every time... Rob 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle88 Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 Since making the sweet 16 2 years ago I have often tried to analyze how we did it. That particular year we were 4th in our conference and to my recollection didn’t play good defense until tournament time and even then we almost blew a 25 point lead against NDSU. I really believe that year the stars aligned and we got a magical draw. Unless I am missing something Ohio State, Florida and Arkansas were not great 3 point shooting teams that year so defending the 3 was not something we had to be overly concerned with. Combine that with the Abmas/ Obanor pick and pop and Carlos being a lock down defender our great shooting carried us . The odds of getting 3 teams that we could match up with was a rare event. I am more and more convinced that had we played really good 3 point shooting teams we could easily have been one and done. The odds of replicating the 2020-2021 year is slim to none. We will have to in my opinion get better defensively and especially against the 3 if we want to get back to the tournament. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 ORU's umbrella offense is very frustrating for an old timer like myself as well. It's "hero ball". In order to score from the field, players have to make a heroic play, either a three or a conversion at the rim off a dribble-drive. Those two ways of scoring take an awful lot of skill, with a high margin for error. ORU is often talented enough individually to beat teams with inferior players or schemes by playing hero ball, but end up getting exposed against better talent and/or schemes. The threes don't fall against pressure on the perimeter and the paths to the basket tighten up against stronger, taller defenders. When ORU's offense is at its stagnant worst vs. good teams, there are no cutters putting pressure on the interior, no off-ball screens, simply no MOTION other than the incessent three-man-weave out top with moving screens leading to only three things: threes, dribble drives, and blocking fouls. The exception, of course, were those two magical weekends in 2021 in Sioux Falls and Indianapolis, when Max and Kevin simply took hero ball to a whole different level. But is that really something that can be counted on night in and night out, season to season? What I sorely miss in ORU's offensive philosophy (and what I love seeing in some of these smaller schools like OBU) is a strategy predicated around ball and player movement that RESULTS in an easier, higher-percentage shot for anyone on the team to convert. The TEAM becomes the hero; the scorer's main function is just finishing off the play. It's the type of attack you often see at smaller schools, or schools who historically can't attract top-shelf athletes. Why? Because it works! It's hero-LESS ball! Or at least, it used to work, before analytics somehow "proved" to a generation of college coaches that motion off the ball is not as productive; that an open mid-range jumper is somehow less desirable than a forced lay-up; that a three-pointer is a high-percentage shot for even average college players; and that offense can't be generated (or at least supplemented) by turnovers off pressure defense. Here's hoping that we're witnessing the extreme swing of the pendulum with the current obsession with hero ball offense, and that TEAM offense will somehow make it's way back into popularity at the college level (most hopefully at 81st & Lewis). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORob1 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmg1984 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, ORob1 said: Looks like we took 18 3-point attempts in the first half. Below are screen grabs of 11 of them with not one rebounder inside the arc-Zero. Not only is there not one Golden Eagle in the paint-THEY'RE ALL BEHIND THE 3 POINT LINE!!! There was 3 or 4 times one of our guys (either Vanover or Weaver were inside the arc). One of those rare times Weaver was actually in good position to grab a potential rebound, but PHIPPS shot an airball and it went directly out of bounds without anyone getting a hand on it. Geez--Is the game plan to just shoot threes at 80-90%. As players are they not taught to crash the board as shots go up? As a shooter are they not aware that NOT ONE teammate is in position to rebound a missed shot? Would someone with a higher basketabll IQ than mine, please explain this to me? Below is 11 of the 18 shots we took from deep. The second half was no better. On at least two separate occasions, I saw Max & McBride, run toward the shooter and away from the basket as the shot was going up-maybe to get back on defense, I get that but, with all five guys behind the arc, it shouldn't be as urgent to get back on D, as it would be if the other 3-4 Eagles were in position for rebounds. SMDH. I think it's ridiculous and a very bad game plan, but hey, what do I know...I'm just a dumb sales guy. A really depressed, frustrated, dumb, sales guy. Spot right on. Missing the big maple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrueBlue82 Posted November 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2022 Here are some of my observations of the game experience in Logan, that you may not have noticed from the live-stream. Arena: The Utah State arena was constructed in 1970, and is shaped very similar to the Mabee Center, except there is no upper bowl, and the seats are much closer to the court. As such, the crowd noise is very loud on the court. Overall, Mabee Center is a much nicer venue, even BEFORE the recent remodel. Crowd: The Utah State student section was loud, boisterous, and very engaged in the game, but their approach to the game was a complete reversal of what I had experienced two weeks earlier in our season opener. Whereas the St. Mary’s crowd was very positive in supporting their team and very classy to the opposition, the USU fans were focused on berating their opponent and the officials and attempting to get “in their heads”, with very little cheering FOR the home team (not judging whether the approach was "right or wrong", just noting the difference). While most of their chants are not worth repeating, I must admit that I did chuckle at their “Daddy Long Legs” taunt when Connor was shooting free throws. And, one student held a clever sign that showed a big picture of a toothbrush, with the comment “Oral B > Oral Roberts”. I’m sure she did that just for tmh8286. Utah State is also cursed with one of the worst school spirit songs known to mankind. The lyrics are (and no, I’m not making this up): “Show me a Scotsman who doesn’t love the thistle, show me an Englishman who doesn’t love the rose. Show me a true-blooded Aggie from Utah, who doesn’t love the spot where the sagebrush grows.” Seriously??? If the lyrics aren’t bad enough, the melody of the song is akin to the Beer Barrel Polka, which is not a good combination. But, I have to hand it to Aggieland, as they have mastered the art of putting "lipstick on a pig" by embracing this song, adding wildly animated hand motions similar to a Sunday School rendition of “Father Abraham”, and the entire arena sings it with gusto. Which they did - not once, not twice, but FIVE times during the game. I can only compare it to being from Stillwater and hearing “Boomer Sooner” over and over and over again – or experiencing the calling of the Hogs in Fayetteville. I still have the tune living in my head… Former Golden Eagle Emir Ahmedic attended the game and was greeted warmly by his former teammates. I love it when someone that has left our program (for any variety of reasons) comes back to support the team. This game was played at a high intensity – similar to a late season road game at a Summit League contender – or even a conference tourney semi-final. Coach Mills was as animated and focused as I have ever seen him. He was very vocal with the team – both in his encouragement and his admonishment. I sensed that he REALLY wanted this game, as it is the last Top 50 team we will play this regular season. Having watched or attended all six games this season, I believe that this was our best overall performance so far – certainly much better than we played at St. Mary’s. Overall, I thought the officiating was decent. It did seem to me that some calls in the last few minutes of the game went against us, but they didn’t determine the outcome of the game - only increased the final margin of victory. I am NOT a fan of the new “immediate flop technical” rule. Players can slip, get bumped while off-balance, etc. and fall, with no intent to “flop” – and it’s a challenge for the ref to make a snap judgment. It also destroys the flow of the game to halt the game for the free throw – which happened three times last night. I much prefer the former “flop warning”, which would’ve at least reduced last night’s stoppages to one. ORU is a MUCH better team – both offensively and defensively – with Connor Vanover on the court. He looks so lanky and thin, but he is very effective defending the paint and his height and wingspan not only lead to blocked shots (national leader), but forces opponents to redirect their normal shot direction and angle. And he hasn’t shown a propensity to foul, which is pretty remarkable. He definitely frustrated the Aggie interior offense. I think he will be a strong candidate for All-Summit League honors by the end of the season. Speaking of All-League, Max is not being Max, at least not yet. I don’t know what the challenge is, but we are fortunate to have enough talent around him to cover for him while he’s in this “slump”. I do think he will come around, but I’m certainly no expert in physiology or sports psychology, so I’m just hoping that I'm right. Last night, when the team was taking the floor for the opening tip, Coach Mills fist-bumped Max, looked in his eyes and told him to “go off”. Talk about having a green light from the Coach! If I had received that vote of confidence from my coach before a game, I would’ve pulled up for a three-point shot as soon as I crossed the half-court line for the first time! But, as we all know, it didn’t happen. Max finished with a “quiet” 17 points, and never really showed what we know he is capable of. Hmmm. Late in the game, I heard a “de-fense, de-fense, de-fense” chant rising up, while Utah State had the ball. This surprised me, because there were only ten ORU fans in the arena, of which I was the most vocal. I then realized that the cheer was coming from the ORU players on the bench, who were encouraging their teammates on the court. So, I joined in! I was pretty impressed to see the positive team chemistry amongst all the players. My wife later told me that the instigator of the cheer was Freshman Cam Amboree, who then influenced the other players on the team to join him. Although he hasn’t had much court time, I really like what I have seen from the young Amboree. The kid has LEADER and STAR written all over him. To that end, I also heard last night that there is no plan for Cam to red-shirt this season – he is on the roster to play as needed and to learn. That said, if he has played sparingly throughout the season (and would still qualify for a red-shirt), I would imagine that the coaching staff would make sure to not exceed the limit late in the year in order to preserve an additional year for him. Bad beats: For the life of me, I don’t understand why ORU fouled the inbound pass with 4.5 seconds left, down by eight. But, it sure turned some heads in Vegas, where the two ensuing free throws shifted those wagering on ORU +9.5 from the winner’s circle to a washout. Ouch... There will be a lot of debate as to whether Utah State’s 61% three point shooting was a result of their offense or our defense. Of course, there’s always a little of both. From my viewpoint, most of their 31 three point attempts were at least partially contested, if not well contested. And, the majority of shots that were uncontested were created by some excellent passing by the Aggies. I tip my hat to the USU offense. Let’s face it - having two players shooting 6-of-8 and 8-of-9 from beyond the arc would be pretty impressive even if they were standing there in shooting drills with no defense on the floor. I actually left the arena more encouraged than when I arrived. ORU went toe-to-toe with a Top 50 team on their home court, on a night where the opponent “shot the lights out” and on a night when our pre-season All-American had an “average” performance, and still fought back to tie the game with under three minutes left. We also played with the intensity of a late-season match-up – and forced 19 turnovers! I’m quite confident that ORU won’t have another opponent this season that makes 19 threes at a 61% shooting percentage. ORU is now 3-3 with no bad losses, only three road losses to top 50 teams. There is a great opportunity to start a nice winning streak with the next eight games within ten miles of campus – and the games in early to mid-December will tell us much more about the floor and ceiling of this team. Although we may not like it. ORU will continue to live or die by the three point shot, and the current eight-man rotation includes eight three-point shooting threats, which helps offset a player in a slump. And, we will soon see if/how Sir Issac Herron’s return may impact the rotation and playing time. I originally (pre-season) predicted a 21-9 regular season and a loss in the conference tourney title game. Now, after six games, I will take the OVER on 21 wins, and will also predict ORU to WIN the tourney in Sioux Falls, after two impressive performances (albeit losses) on the road against top 50 teams. We will see... 4 1 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle88 Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 Thank you for the detailed analysis True Blue! You did a great job of describing the event. I have to admit I have been frustrated today and focusing more on what the Eagles did wrong. You definitely did an excellent job of sharing what we did right and what we can do moving forward. I agree we can have a special year if we work hard and fix some things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Clear to see there are some divergent viewpoints from Tuesday night's results. The Tulsa game in 10 days, much like the Texas Southern game, may provide a more accurate indication of this team's bona fides as a 20-game winner and conference title contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 23 hours ago, ORob1 said: Looks like we took 18 3-point attempts in the first half. Below are screen grabs of 11 of them with not one rebounder inside the arc-Zero. Not only is there not one Golden Eagle in the paint-THEY'RE ALL BEHIND THE 3 POINT LINE!!! There was 3 or 4 times one of our guys (either Vanover or Weaver were inside the arc). One of those rare times Weaver was actually in good position to grab a potential rebound, but PHIPPS shot an airball and it went directly out of bounds without anyone getting a hand on it. Geez--Is the game plan to just shoot threes at 80-90%. As players are they not taught to crash the board as shots go up? As a shooter are they not aware that NOT ONE teammate is in position to rebound a missed shot? Would someone with a higher basketabll IQ than mine, please explain this to me? Below is 11 of the 18 shots we took from deep. The second half was no better. On at least two separate occasions, I saw Max & McBride, run toward the shooter and away from the basket as the shot was going up-maybe to get back on defense, I get that but, with all five guys behind the arc, it shouldn't be as urgent to get back on D, as it would be if the other 3-4 Eagles were in position for rebounds. SMDH. I think it's ridiculous and a very bad game plan, but hey, what do I know...I'm just a dumb sales guy. A really depressed, frustrated, dumb, sales guy. I really don't understand this. Not having a single guy inside the three point line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Well...its Thanksgiving so let's take a day off from the negative waves... TheEagleman will enjoy some turkey and stuffing....And Let's Go NY Giants!!!! Thanksgiving Dinner always tastes a little bit better when the Cowboys lose..... 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cletus Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the best sports board! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 hours ago, theeagleman5 said: Well...its Thanksgiving so let's take a day off from the negative waves... TheEagleman will enjoy some turkey and stuffing....And Let's Go NY Giants!!!! Thanksgiving Dinner always tastes a little bit better when the Cowboys lose..... Sorry Eagleman but The Great Turkey didn’t grant you your Thanksgiving wish. Frankly, the score wasn’t indicative of the Cowboys’ dominance. I hope that you didn’t choke on your pumpkin pie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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