Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 minute ago, eagle88 said: Utah State is a good 3 point shooting team but we don’t defend the 3 hardly at all. We make their 3 point shooters look like NBA All Stars! Part of it is our small guards Abmas, McBride and Phipps can’t match up defensively. Overall we played ok and hung in there. Good effort from Vanover, Jurgens and McBride. We need Max to hit his stride quickly! This ^^^ Someone is going to have to pump some SERIOUS sunshine to convince me there's not something seriously wrong with Max this season. And I'm afraid it's within that most valuable piece of real estate on the human physique: right between the ears. Finally, a memo to anyone agreeing with the "Maybe we will learn from this!" mantra: if this roster & coaching staff was capable of learning that lesson, don't you think it would have sunk in by now? HOW MANY LESSONS ARE REQUIRED?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 USU 61% from 3....Abmas 1-6.... what ever happened to Mad Max?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, theeagleman5 said: USU 61% from 3....Abmas 1-6.... what ever happened to Mad Max?? I guess he needs to get mad again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle88 Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 Just to further the point: Ashcroft has a career high against us tonight. Appel from SDSU goes off on us last year for a career high 40 points I believe. See how our opponents use us to get career highs? I’m not sure about Ashcroft but Appel is inconsistent and often has outright bad games. Tonight we shot well enough to win but our defense sunk the ship! Tough loss when we really had a chance to win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis 83 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I think some of y’all are being unfair when criticizing our 3 point defense. It is really hard to prepare for something if you can’t replicate it in practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, Otis 83 said: I think some of y’all are being unfair when criticizing our 3 point defense. It is really hard to prepare for something if you can’t replicate it in practice. Hey, I wonder if there’s actually a nugget of truth hiding in your tongue-in-cheek assessment: ORU’s perimeter defense always seems to wilt under the pressure of a patient offensive possession that works for the extra pass and 3-point shot, getting lost in their rotations especially when the ball goes inside-then-out. I now find myself wondering if the scout team ever goes that deeply into an offensive possession in practice, or if they simply jack it up early in the shot clock, just like the starters? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 It seems like the defense cannot stop the drivers early in the shot clock, so then they are just in scramble mode until the other team finds the open man. The guards are small but could use their quickness to stay in front of their man. They seem to be doubling the post much more than last year but then that opens up for good shooters to knock down threes. It has become pick your poison with ORU's defense: give up an open three or DJ trying to guard a much bigger center in the post, which is usually a layup. This team has enough weapons that if Max just scores 15-17 points a game then the Eagles are fine. They really do not need him to carry the offense this year. Connor had a good game but 2-3 times he had a 6'2 guy in the post and shot fall-away jumpers that were short. Carlos made some nice fakes and drives to the basket for layups. The offense is more well rounded this year and all five starters scored in double figures tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Keenan Henderson said: This team has enough weapons that if Max just scores 15-17 points a game then the Eagles are fine. Not if he's shooting 5-for-12 to get those 15 points, they're not. Or going 1-for-6 from three, they're not. Or committing five turnovers and five fouls, they're not. Anybody else turn in that kind of stat line, and the cries would all be to bench the offender. Everything about Max's game right now feels forced: bad shots, bad passes, bad decision-making with the ball and on defense, etc. It's an utter breakdown from the free-wheeling, one-step-ahead-of-the-other-guy style we saw throughout his sophomore season and in flashes last year. Now, it just seems like torture to wring out what little offense he can supply, such as in the 39 (!) minutes he logged Tuesday night. Seriously, I feel sorry for the guy, and I pray he figures it out, but it's not just due to great defense being played on him. It's his current inability to handle what is simply good, sound defense that every team he's faced has been employing since he blew up two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle88 Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 I think we all agree that we want Max to play at his peak potential but in all honesty the biggest problem we faced last night was our lack of defending the 3. With 3 minutes or so left in the game we tied the game up! Our offense was fine! Then all of a sudden Ashcroft hits 3 3’s without a hand in his face. Ashcroft is a very good shooter but heck an average shooter can hit 3’s when he is not contested. The difference between shooting an uncontested 3 and a contested 3 is huge. Those of you who have played basketball at any level know that! If we are going to win the Summit we are going to have to fix this! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, eagle88 said: If we are going to win the Summit we are going to have to fix this! Finishing top 3 in the Summit is looking like a long shot now. Defense and rebounding just aren’t there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasgrip Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Lots to consider, and much of it mentioned here. But average 3-pt rate in D1 is low 40s. When a team goes off for 61.3% there's not too many other factors that eclipse that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 58 minutes ago, Dr. Cornelius said: Finishing top 3 in the Summit is looking like a long shot now. Defense and rebounding just aren’t there. Found myself reminded of SDSU last year while watching USU; and seeing ORU struggle in the same ways vs. both. The question is whether this year’s version of SDSU is as good as last season, and/or whether ORU can figure out something about defending the perimeter. Not holding my breath in that regard… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idig32 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Defending the three certainly is a problem and I agree with others that it is really THE key for this team. Think if we had just allowed an average percentage from 3. We would have won by probably double digits. I actually think the problem with the defense isn’t rotations generally. There appeared to be a few times when there were some communication breakdowns, particularly in transition. However, the rotations generally were pretty good and we forced a lot of turnovers largely due to good rotations and nobody wanting to shoot over Vanover. The main problem to me appears to be that when guys are recovering to shooters, they aren’t staying on the ground. They run out and jump for the first shot fake they see. There were a couple times guys over-helped on drives and then were a step slow to get out on shooters. When our guys stayed disciplined and didn’t jump for shot fakes, we had a lot more success defending. Mwamba in particular is really good at this. During the stretch in the second half where Utah State was struggling so much on offense, Mwamba (and everyone else) was doing a great job of staying down on shooters. I think the lineup was Mwamba, Phipps, Vanover, Jurgens, and McBride. As I have watched both the Saint Mary’s and Utah State games this year, I think my defensive strategy would be to keep Vanover under the rim and run every 3-point shooter off the line and make them drive and deal with him. If Vanover is taking a break, then do the same thing with Weaver, Herron, or Clover. Teams would probably get some good shots, but at least the shots they get wouldn’t be threes. Overall, I am not super worried about the season. When Max gets going again, and the defense gets better (I believe it will get better as guys get better at working together with Vanover) we’ll see how good this team can be. I don’t think there’s a team as good as Utah State in the conference, so I feel good about how we’ll fare in the conference schedule. Lastly, I really love that Jurgens is playing so much. He is a fantastic player and I love watching how crafty he is getting to the rim. Of course his defense is great as well. He played a great game and I think that’s a good sign for the rest of the season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 BAD NEWS...our "Defense" is still non existent....GOOD NEWS....ORU pretty much assured of winning the next two games at Mabee Center vs. Rogers St and Ozark Christian....so we will be 5-3 when we take on the very edgy Golden Hurricane of Tulsa in 10 days.....and speaking of edgy....TheEagleman will await the comments of ORUVOICE with great anticipation...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, theeagleman5 said: BAD NEWS...our "Defense" is still non existent....GOOD NEWS....ORU pretty much assured of winning the next two games at Mabee Center vs. Rogers St and Ozark Christian....so we will be 5-3 when we take on the very edgy Golden Hurricane of Tulsa in 10 days.....and speaking of edgy....TheEagleman will await the comments of ORUVOICE with great anticipation...... Eh. Nothing edgy to add today. I'm in the Thanksgiving spirit and ready for some Punkin Pie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Old Titan said: Hey, I wonder if there’s actually a nugget of truth hiding in your tongue-in-cheek assessment: ORU’s perimeter defense always seems to wilt under the pressure of a patient offensive possession that works for the extra pass and 3-point shot, getting lost in their rotations especially when the ball goes inside-then-out. I now find myself wondering if the scout team ever goes that deeply into an offensive possession in practice, or if they simply jack it up early in the shot clock, just like the starters? Is Demari Williams not playing at all? Had high hopes for him according to folks that had seen him this summer. Supposed to be an athletic wing that can really defend at 6'6". Thought he would a contributor this season. Are they getting any baskets inside at all? As far as post ups? I know that is not what Connor wants to do but was hoping Mwamba would help with that. Losing the big that went to the G-League really hurt for this season. Hopefully they will figure it out before Tulsa game and can take care of them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Happy Thanksgiving and Go Eagles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, darrenj said: Is Demari Williams not playing at all? Had high hopes for him according to folks that had seen him this summer. Supposed to be an athletic wing that can really defend at 6'6". Thought he would a contributor this season. Are they getting any baskets inside at all? As far as post ups? I know that is not what Connor wants to do but was hoping Mwamba would help with that. Losing the big that went to the G-League really hurt for this season. Hopefully they will figure it out before Tulsa game and can take care of them again. Puzzling why the much-ballyhooed defensive transfers Mwamba and Williams are seeing so little time, with supposed three-point specialists getting their minutes instead while struggling with shooting percentages that boggle the mind and cringe-worthy defensive lapses. As in past years, playing time seems largely predicated by one thing: chucking up threes. If you're a gunner, you get time. If you're not, your time suffers. Shaking my head Tuesday night at the line-up on the floor down the stretch in crunch time: Abmas, Jergens, Thompson, McBride and Phipps. That, my friends, is the rare (for good reason) FIVE GUARD line-up. But, hey, why not - it's not like ORU is lacking in rebounding, defense in the paint, and length on the perimeter (wait, wait - I'm now being told that is EXACTLY where ORU is lacking). I'm guessing the only thing keeping ORU from running a six guard line-up is the resulting technical foul... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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