Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 No, I'm the guru.... and moderator. (Well, some of the time.) Just wanted to see what a Hoosier thought of the changes going on at Indiana. yes, you are the guru Terry! now, what do you think about the Sampson to IU thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Sampson is an interesting choice for Indiana. Not sure how good of a recruiter he is and the fact that his players defect from him should be worrisome. I hope Indiana knows for certain that the NCAA situation will not reach out and touch Sampson (and IU). I suspect that someone got on the telephone with Miles Brand and had a nice little conversation. If not, and the NCAA comes after Sampson.... well, it won't be pretty. I thought Sampson was worn out (fatigued) this year. If he thinks he is going to get a respite at Indiana, he is delusional. I wonder if he has the mental energy to take on the job. Sampson is certainly king of the hill now - just what he has wanted. He just has to make sure he keeps his footing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The following story absolutely tells it like it is ... by Greg Doyle CBSsportsline.com Kelvin Sampson would have been a good hire for Indiana 10 years ago, after he had taken Billy Tubbs' stuck-in-sand program and led it to NCAA Tournament appearances in each of his first two seasons in Norman. More than 500 impermissible phone calls put some heat on Kelvin Sampson at OU. (AP) Sampson would have been a good hire for Indiana five years ago, when the Sooners were in the middle of the most glorious four-year stretch in program history, a stretch that saw Oklahoma win at least 27 games every year with three Big 12 titles, two Elite Eights and one Final Four. Sampson would have been a good hire for Indiana three years ago, two years ago, even one year ago when he led Oklahoma to 25 wins. But now? Indiana looked around college basketball, studied its options, and went for Kelvin Sampson now? Forget Oklahoma's underachievement this season, which will go down as one of the worst coaching jobs of Sampson's career. It's worse than that -- much worse. Sampson isn't just coming off an NCAA investigation. He's in the middle of it. The NCAA has summoned Oklahoma to Utah on April 21 for a hearing before the Committee on Infractions. Will Sampson attend that hearing? And will he be wearing an Indiana sweat suit? Apologists for Sampson and Oklahoma -- and for Indiana, because Sampson is one of you now -- will point out that the NCAA has found the Sooners guilty of little more than impermissible phone calls. And that impermissible phone calls, in the grand scheme of things, are nothing. But it was more than 500 impermissible phone calls, and those calls were made not just at the wrong time of year, or more than once in a week, but to players too young to receive any calls at all. Sampson and his staff didn't break the world's biggest rule, true -- but they broke a rule nonetheless, and they broke it wantonly. And while the apologists won't take those "violations" seriously, even stooping so low as to put quote marks around the word, this is how serious Oklahoma took it: School officials had an emergency meeting last year to consider firing Sampson, but (obviously) chose not to do so. What the school did, though, was give Sampson's (former) program two years of probation, reduce scholarships, enact restrictions that will eliminate more than 1,000 potential recruiting calls and even freeze Sampson's salary. Also, Sampson had his off-campus recruiting limited. Sampson's reward? The Indiana job. Life's funny. You think Indiana will limit Sampson's off-campus recruiting opportunities and phone calls? Hell, no. Sampson cheated ... but he didn't cheat for Indiana! So now Sampson takes his NCAA-singed backside to Bloomington, and all of Hoosier Nation can spend the next 3 1/2 weeks holding its breath, waiting for that Committee on Infractions meeting in Utah. If you want to believe in the best possible scenario for Indiana and Sampson, believe this: Indiana, which is located less than an hour from NCAA headquarters in Indianapolis, didn't hire Sampson without calling someone at the NCAA for assurances that Sampson wouldn't be dragged too deeply through the mud on April 21. Maybe someone at Indiana spoke with NCAA president Myles Brand, the former Indiana president. Not sure if that's the case, but for Indiana's sake, it had better be. Otherwise, Indiana has just handed one of the prime pieces of coaching real estate to someone who might have a terrible credit report. As for Oklahoma's next move ... it's not pretty. Sampson's coaching tree is bleak, and the Oklahoma job isn't exactly considered a plum among college coaches. It's a football school for one thing, and even if it were a basketball school, it might be a women's basketball school. Throw in the NCAA investigation -- again, potential penalties such as additional scholarship reductions and a postseason ban won't be known for weeks -- and this job is not going to pique the interest of established coaches at big-time programs. If Oklahoma wants to make a painless transition from Sampson's staff to the next one, it would promote assistant coach Bob Hoffman. Hoffman is connected to Sampson, which is bad, but the NCAA didn't find him culpable in the phone-call scandal -- which is good. Hoffman, 48, won big at NAIA Oklahoma Baptist and held his own at Division I Texas-Pan American, and while this sentence doesn't make him a sure-thing hire, he does have the state connections and the relationships with current players and incoming recruits that the Sooners will need. Another likely candidate is Missouri State coach Barry Hinson, an Oklahoma native and former Oral Roberts head coach. Hinson is close with former Oklahoma governor and current OU president David Boren, for whom Hinson campaigned 20 years ago when Boren was a U.S. senator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blevins Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's impossible for rabid fans to post objectively, isn't it? Anyway... Rob, what people are trying to get you and every other Hoosier fan blinded by the past is that RIGHT NOW Indiana is no better than the third-best program in its own league. Michigan State and Illinois RIGHT NOW are better programs than IU. How can any reasonable person not see that? In the all-time annals of college basketball Indiana, clearly, is one of the Top 5 programs. But RIGHT NOW it's just another borderline Top 20 program -- just like Oklahoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Indiana basketball is a bit like Oklahoma football was in the late 90's. Great tradition, but not a lot of current success. (I know IU was in the Final Four several years ago, but the success has not been sustained.) They both have rabid, fanatical fan bases and great traditions. They both also had let other schools pass them by in terms of facilities. OU fixed the problem with Bob Stoops and Joe C. Indiana has latent advantages but needs leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKC Eagle Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Sampson . . . was NOT happy being the head coach of OU's 4th most popular sport (FB, Spring FB, Women's BKB, then Men's BKB). I think Men's BB is 5th. You forgot about Women's Softball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Indiana basketball is a bit like Oklahoma football was in the late 90's. Great tradition, but not a lot of current success. (I know IU was in the Final Four several years ago, but the success has not been sustained.) They both have rabid, fanatical fan bases and great traditions. They both also had let other schools pass them by in terms of facilities. OU fixed the problem with Bob Stoops and Joe C. Indiana has latent advantages but needs leadership. ORU TERRY KEY CODE: Four (4) = Several (in years) IU basketball and OU football are excellent comparisons Terry and one that I've used many times, although IU basketball has fortunately not dropped nearly as low as Sooner football did during the John Blake years which means it doesn't have near the "road back" that OU football faced. Plus, an effective recruiter can power up a basketball program pretty darn quick (NOTE: Billy Clyde Gillispie @ UTEP and aTm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 ORU TERRY KEY CODE: Four (4) = Several (in years) IU basketball and OU football are excellent comparisons Terry and one that I've used many times, although IU basketball has fortunately not dropped nearly as low as Sooner football did during the John Blake years which means it doesn't have near the "road back" that OU football faced. Plus, an effective recruiter can power up a basketball program pretty darn quick (NOTE: Billy Clyde Gillispie @ UTEP and aTm). Good point Rob. And, I agree. However, I don't think Kelvin is the answer. With Sampson, IU is destined to stay about where they've been for the last couple of years. 17-22 wins and maybe one win a year in the dance, on average. Which we all know, isn't going to sit well with the IU crowd who expects to be a Top 5 program. My prediction...Kelvin is gone in 3-4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Would you classify Sampson as an effective recruiter? He has been able to do well in the juco ranks, but seems to have trouble keeping the McDonalds All-American-type players happy. I wonder which of his staff members follow him up there? Hoffman is an Oklahoma (former head coach at OBU) and will probably stay with the incoming staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's impossible for rabid fans to post objectively, isn't it? Anyway... Rob, what people are trying to get you and every other Hoosier fan blinded by the past is that RIGHT NOW Indiana is no better than the third-best program in its own league. Michigan State and Illinois RIGHT NOW are better programs than IU. How can any reasonable person not see that? In the all-time annals of college basketball Indiana, clearly, is one of the Top 5 programs. But RIGHT NOW it's just another borderline Top 20 program -- just like Oklahoma. So CB by your definition of "program," does that mean Florida basketball is currently a better "program" than Kentucky? Or perhaps Maryland was a better "program" than North Carolina earlier this decade? To me the term "program" suggests something much bigger than a snap shot of a 5-10 year period. Up through the mid-90's, there wasn't a "program" going that was doing it any better than Indiana. Hoosier basketball "slipped" (no Final Four appearances) until ramping back up in 2002. While IU was perceived to have "struggled" on Mike Davis' watch, they still went 93-66 overall and 45-35 in Big Ten play. Indiana went 7-3 in NCAA tournament games during the past five (5) seasons as well (never losing to a lower seeded team), and also had one (1) NIT appearance. Has Illinois been more successful in the last six years than Indiana, yes. However, Illinois' run near the top of the Big Ten has officially run out of steam, now that Bill Self's recruits are out of eligibility and gone on to play professionally. And yes, Michigan State has had a nice run in the last eight years on Tom Izzo's watch (eight straight NCAA appearances - longest streak in the Big Ten, including four Final Fours and a National Championship back in 2000, first for MSU since Magic Johnson & Co. back in 1979), but that is changing too. The Spartans slumped to 20-13 overall (8-8 in the Big Ten, actually finishing BEHIND the Hoosiers in the Big Ten regular season standings) this season and went home after the first round of the NCAA tournament. So for the record going forward, Ohio State (another football school), is positioned as the NEW "team to beat" in Big Ten men's basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I watched a little bit of the McDonald's East/West game, or whatever it was, last night, and one of the announcers was saying that one of the kids had signed with OU and was VERY unhappy that Sampson was leaving. He said the kid wanted to play for Sampson, and was extremely disappointed that he wouldn't be there, now that he had signed to play for him. I don't keep track that much (make that any at all) of OU's recruiting, but I think they said that there were two OU recruits playing in that game last night. Another was Oden, 7'1", from Indiana, going to Ohio State. He was pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Tim, honestly, letting native hoosier Greg Oden slip away out of state to Ohio State did Mike Davis in as much as anything. If Davis signs Oden and fellow McDonald's all-American and Lawrence North HS teammate Mike Conley, he's still the Hoosiers' head coach. Not signing the in-state kids did Davis in at IU. Mike and Terry, can Sampson win the favor the Indiana HS coaches to the point that he once again can sign the big time talent from the Hoosier state? In that lies the answer to how long Kelvin survives at IU. Even if he signs big time players from other states, if he loses the in-state kids he won't be around Bloomington long. Having a native hoosier (played at Muncie North HS in Indiana, played collegiately at Ball State, and later was a very successful head coach at Ball State) Ray McCallum on staff won't hurt him any for sure as far as building rapport with Indiana HS coaches. Look for him to also hire someone like Damon Bailey in some capacity as well. :idea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Bob Hoffman will not be going on to Bloomington with Sampson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Tim, honestly, letting native hoosier Greg Oden slip away out of state to Ohio State did Mike Davis in as much as anything. If Davis signs Oden and fellow McDonald's all-American and Lawrence North HS teammate Mike Conley, he's still the Hoosiers' head coach. Not signing the in-state kids did Davis in at IU. I wondered about that. My son knew more about him than I did (I'd never even heard of him), and said he would have gone straight to the NBA if not for the new reg requiring guys to attend at least one year of college. His coach and teachers described him as a gentleman and outstanding student. When they interviewed him he seemed so quiet, meek and gentle he hardly seemed to have the persona of a player. But then they showed some clips of him during games, and he was an animal! Only thing I didn't like was in one of the clips he got in the face of the dwarf (probably 6'6", maybe shorter!) trying to guard him. He's so big he can have his way with any player he faces - no need to showboat about it. Small complaint, though. Seemed like a really good kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetorfenix86 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Don't forget Josh McRoberts. He's was an Indiana boy that left the state to go to Duke. Now he will probably be Duke's best player next year. Having him might have saved Davis's job too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Don't forget Josh McRoberts. He's was an Indiana boy that left the state to go to Duke. Now he will probably be Duke's best player next year. Having him might have saved Davis's job too. You're absolutely right. Davis lost too many Hoosiers to out of state schools. Can't do that too often and (a) win the Big Ten or advance too far in the NCAA tournament and ( keep the natives happy with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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