Are we entering the Dark Ages of ORU Basketball?

[Texasgrip]

Our suspicions are confirmed... Tramel White is academically ineligible this year. I hope he has a redshirt year left and won't lose a year of eligibility.

Scott said that Bilbury will start getting some practice at PG but probably wouldn't get to the point that he could be the starter. He also said that Manghum has "probably" been better than they expected. He said his main concern is Mike being able to handle pressure and praised his defensive prowess.

Here's hoping that D.J. Jackson steps up.

http://www.tulsaworl...B5_bPoint264417

 

 

I know that we discuss this a lot over the coming months, but here is a list of our returning and incoming (recruits) players:

 

Glover

Roundtree

Lliteras

Manghum

Jackson

Billbury

Conley

Emegano

Byford

Kaufman

Word

Lee

 

Assuming no defections/changes, this leaves us with one open scholarship. Lots of young players - eight sophomores or freshmen.

I see you haven't listed Tramel White, but I never heard the final story on his status...

[Otis 83]

TMH,  and some women too.  Lean in brother!!!!

[ManiacAlum]

One of the things that is truly a mystery to me is ORU's decline on the defensive end, even if it is old-fashioned half court man-to-man. Our players seem incapable of stopping the dribble penetration and staying in position. That, along with almost textbook level help-side defense rotation used to be THE thing that was ORU basketball during the NCAA tourney years.

 

Like our woes on the offensive end, is this due to inconsistency in the lineup, injuries, youth, too many minutes etc?

 

Even the 2008 team, post Green/Tutt, wasn't blessed with a lot of talent and at times couldn't throw it in the ocean, but they played some defense. FG Pct defense was an absurd 40.0% and was ranked 25th in the nation.

 

And I know that FG defense doesn't always tell the whole story defensively, but here are the average percentages and rankings for 2004-2008 compared to 2009-2013:

 

04-08: 41.9% (avg ranking: 92nd nationally)

 

09-13: 44.3% (avg ranking: 219th nationally)

 

This includes the last 2 years where it was over 46% for each season, good enough to be ranked 304 and 320. Yikes. 

[ORUTerry]

Trammel Whte is not listed on any roster and has not been near the bench. Maybe he is not allowed to be near the team. I don't think he is on campus. I doubt we ever hear from him again.

 

Our defensive effort has got to change. You don't have to be overly talented to play defense (or rebound for that matter). It is about fundamentals (correct positioning, etc) and hustle/determination.

[tmh8286]

TMH,  and some women too.  Lean in brother!!!!

So True, Otis! My reference was particularly intended for the guys posting on this thread, but that wasn't made clear. Don't want to leave the ladies out! Some I know are among ORU's greatest fans - won't miss a game. The reference to the players also applies to the women's team. They make the same commitments and sacrifices as the guys. But I was mostly referring to our disappointment after last night, and the guys on this thread.

But feel free to expand to whomever you wish to apply it to!

[tmh8286]

One of the things that is truly a mystery to me is ORU's decline on the defensive end, even if it is old-fashioned half court man-to-man. Our players seem incapable of stopping the dribble penetration and staying in position. That, along with almost textbook level help-side defense rotation used to be THE thing that was ORU basketball during the NCAA tourney years.

 

Like our woes on the offensive end, is this due to inconsistency in the lineup, injuries, youth, too many minutes etc?

 

Even the 2008 team, post Green/Tutt, wasn't blessed with a lot of talent and at times couldn't throw it in the ocean, but they played some defense. FG Pct defense was an absurd 40.0% and was ranked 25th in the nation.

 

And I know that FG defense doesn't always tell the whole story defensively, but here are the average percentages and rankings for 2004-2008 compared to 2009-2013:

 

04-08: 41.9% (avg ranking: 92nd nationally)

 

09-13: 44.3% (avg ranking: 219th nationally)

 

This includes the last 2 years where it was over 46% for each season, good enough to be ranked 304 and 320. Yikes. 

GREAT stats, ManiacAlum. That comparison is really interesting. And I think that your question is a good one. That drop in defensive consistancy is disturbing.

While this may not explain the entire drop, I think it explains at least part of it: Yemi Ogunye. He was a one man defensive wrecking crew, and 2004 was his freshman year. When guarding the top scorer in game after game he held them to minimal points. Although I know he had some redshirt seasons in there, those lower years included his primo seasons.

That may have had a little to do with it.

[ORUJason]

It wouldn't hurt to get a decent shot blocker who could establish a defensive presence down low. I know that they don't exactly grow on trees.

[lamb740]

I rest my case...

[ORUalum]

i've moved from not worried to concerned about the direction of ORU athletics in general.  another year like this one and i'll start considering "dark ages" status.

[Old Titan]

i've moved from not worried to concerned about the direction of ORU athletics in general.  another year like this one and i'll start considering "dark ages" status.

 

This.

[ORUalum]

after 2700 posts i'm finally in "OldTitan - This Club." 

 

is this anything like SNL's 5 timers club?  do i get a smoking jacket?  access to an exclusive message board for for only club members?

 

[tmh8286]

Congrats, ORUalum!!! I've got over 11,000 posts and I don't thing I've ever got a "this." Gotten quite a few, "No, this"'s though.

That's pretty heady stuff!! You're in the big time now!

[Old Titan]

Cute. 

[Otis 83]

I rest my case...

 

Lamb740,

 

I'm trying really hard to not hear a smug tone of voice in my head when I read your post.  I truly hope that you are not gloating and are not happy that you may be right.  As a lifelong ORU fant I hope with all my being that you are wrong and believe that any ORU fan would also hope that you are wrong. 

 

Can you help me out here?

[lamb740]

Otis 83,

 

As a hardcore ORU basketball fan, I was definitely not gloating in my confirmation that we are in the "Dark Ages."  It was more of a way to vent disappointment than anything.

 

I was an ORU student from 2004-2008 (1 NIT and 3 NCAA tournament appearances).  Needless to say, my definition of Dark Ages is probably different than someone who has been a fan longer than I.  

[ORUJason]

After some reflection, I believe we aren't in the dark ages because we hung with several good NCAA tournament teams this year and at least finished with a winning record. However, we can't take another step back next year, or...

I however attended ORU during the true dark ages of ORU basketball... The last year of Trickey's second run, 2 years in NAIA, and the 1st year back in D1. As a result I have a great appreciation for the success we have had over the last 20 years.

[ORUTerry]

Things are usually never as bad or as good as you think. We are just two years removed from a 27 win season and two (?) points away from an NCAA tournament berth.

[ORUalum]

My first semester at ORU was Oral's final semester and I believe ORU was in the 2nd year of transitioning back to D1 as an indepenent.  I watched a lot of bad basketball.

 

The records of the 4 years I was at ORU:

'92-93 -- 5-22 (Trickey)

'93-94 -- 6-21 (Self)

'94-95 -- 10-17 (Self)

'95-96 -- 18-9 (Self)

 

Richard took over as president the spring semester of '93 and made it clear that cleaning up athletics was near the top of his agenda.  He dedicated one of his first Chapels to addressing the state of ORU athletics.  It was his contention that ORU was not having sucess in athletics because "we were not honoring God in athletics  and that there would no longer be two sets of rules on campus for athletes and non athletes."  He addressed a few other issues, but the main thrust was that the athletic program needed a house cleaning.  Without naming Coach Trickey by name, it was pretty obvious who Richard was blaming for much of the problem.  This is when he announced that the mascot name would also be changed. 

 

It was later announced that this would be Coach Trickey's last season as coach (I think he was also the AD??).   Of course this lead to to the awkward plaque ceremony at mid-court the final home game of the year.  As has been mentioned by others that were there, it was obvious to the hundreds of us in Mabee Center the utter contempt Richard and Trickey had for one another.

 

I know how tough Self was on those players the first few years, because I saw it.  The basketball team lived on Michael 12 and the assistant coaches were constantly riding those guys.  Heck, Barry Hinson was on the elevator so much, I almost thought he lived with them.  Self eventually ran off a lot of Trickey's players and his own first couple of recruiting classes because they would not buy into his system or the school rules.  Self had a much tougher recruiting job than the current coaches.  Frankly, the rules were much stricter and the school was "weirder."  I can't imagine what Self must have thought he got himself into when Rodney Howard Browne rolled onto campus for "Fall Revival 1993".  It's 20 years later and I'm still not sure what the heck that was.  I was so freaked out by what went on that I contemplated transferring to another school.

 

It took Self a couple of years to get things turned and get the right type of players into the program, but he eventually got to the NIT as in independent in the '96-97 season.  To this day that maybe one of his greatest coaching achievements.  The core of that team was Gill from Victory Christian, very lightly recruited Walls and Crenshaw, walk-ons McClellan and Kruse, and JUCO freak athlete Kevin Scruggs.

 

I said all that to say, that is what the "Dark Ages" of ORU Basketball looked like to me and how it got turned around.

-a commitment to honoring God in athletics

-a commitment from the administration

-a very tough coach

-recruiting the right players for a "unique" school like ORU

 

 

So what now?  I have no idea what is going now.  I know Coach Sutton and Mr Carter are men of character and are committed to winning and honoring God.  Is the school administration committed to winning and spending the resources necessary?  Has the program become soft?  Are the right type of players being brought in?  I'll leave those answers to those that are in Tulsa and close to the program.  I will say that in occasionally looking at some of the players twitter accounts I'm shocked at the disdain many current athletes have for ORU and open flaunting of the honor code.  I've seen ORU's beliefs mocked, the school referred to as a cult, just a few days ago a basketball player posted a selfie from a Dallas strip club.  I get that 18-22 yr olds are going to grinch and moan about going to a Christian school with rules. I'm not advocating bringing in only choir boys, but what kind of atmosphere is there in the athletic dept that this is seen as being okay to post so publicly.  If were going to finish 6th in one of the worst basketball leagues and lose baseball series to the likes of SEMO, McNeese, and Northwestern St can we not do it with players that somewhat appreciate the opportunity they have been given and aren't publicly hostile to the university?

 

Just my $.02