Dr. Cornelius Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Nice to see the other team in town finally make it onto ESPN's Top Ten Plays! Kevin Ford had been hogging the limelight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 When did this become the TU board? People are mad. This is really complicated stuff. There are some clear issues with the talent. We have two really good players and an incomplete deck after that. Woj signed two point guards last year and neither is on the team. We had 22 turnovers last night. For the diehards, there is plenty of frustration. While many want to dismiss that board as looney, some of the loudest protesters are among the best, most successful, classiest, most reasonable TU fans. TUMe was very good friends with Catbird and is a smart, smart man. LEC is among the best TU fans ever. DC fan has season tickets and hasn't lived in Tulsa for 20 years. Panic is the son of a TU All American. II is the best poster we have. The people who follow it the most have some perfectly valid questions. Why they are never discussed by the local paper, the coach, or even some of the more connected people on that board is a mystery. I like Wojcik and want to see him thrive. But it hasn't been all peaches and cream. I'm just glad we're able to be angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLO_Gold Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 When did this become the TU board? People are mad. This is really complicated stuff. There are some clear issues with the talent. We have two really good players and an incomplete deck after that. Woj signed two point guards last year and neither is on the team. We had 22 turnovers last night. For the diehards, there is plenty of frustration. While many want to dismiss that board as looney, some of the loudest protesters are among the best, most successful, classiest, most reasonable TU fans. TUMe was very good friends with Catbird and is a smart, smart man. LEC is among the best TU fans ever. DC fan has season tickets and hasn't lived in Tulsa for 20 years. Panic is the son of a TU All American. II is the best poster we have. The people who follow it the most have some perfectly valid questions. Why they are never discussed by the local paper, the coach, or even some of the more connected people on that board is a mystery. I like Wojcik and want to see him thrive. But it hasn't been all peaches and cream. I'm just glad we're able to be angry. For once I agree with something Gold says. Let's shut this puppy down and move on! I for one love that Doug is over there. How could it be any better? He's keeping a team w/ tons of potential at a mediocre level. I say contract extension! I can't wait to beat them at the Mabee Center next year. No but honestly - I really do wish him all the best. If he doesn't succeed at TU, he will somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej32 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Makes it pretty embarrassing to be a TU fan right now. Honestly, reading that reminds me of the Louisville football fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I remember Gold*. He and AshVID used to post on the TU and ORU message boards. As for the "why are we talking TU", it's because - like it or not - TU and ORU are each fighting for the same front-running sports fans in town to supplement their hard-core fan bases. Consequently, everything that happens basketball-wise at 11th & Harvard affects the folks at 81st & Lewis, and vice-versa. We're just the only ones willing to admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 TheEagleman watched some of last night's TU game and thought they gave it a pretty good effort and probably should have won...the crowd was a bit subdued and even the ESPN commentators chastised the fans in the first half for "not being into it".....TheEagleman noticed only a few empty seats up in the corners....would love to see an ORU-TU game on ESPN next season....especially because we will kick their butts!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was listening to sports radio discussions today of the TU-Memphis game and several who were at the game said there were 2000-3000 empty seats. The same thing was true for the TU-BYU game that I attended earlier this year. I was rooting for TU and even giving it to the refs some and I thought there was some decent crowd support in that game even though there were a lot of empty seats. My sons could not bring themselves to root for TU (which is fine with me) but I explained that when TU wins it helps ORU's RPI, so they got into it a little. Jerome Jordan and Idlet (their 2 big guys) played with no confidence and couldn't establish much of any post game. TU's defense is good, but their offense is ugly and based a lot on jump shots. I cannot imagine Jerome Jordan being successful in the NBA when he doesn't seem to bring it consistently at this level. It really makes me appreciate Marcus Lewis and Kevin Ford. They may not be 7 feet tall but they have developed aggressive mindsets and know what to do with the basketball. Marcus willed our team to a win against Oakland in the 2nd half last Saturday night. I appreciate the confidence that they are playing with right now. And for the record, Doug Wojcik is not the problem at TU, the unrealistic and impatient fans are the problem. Doug is such an obvious improvement over John Phillips but it is a long road back to consistent success. They should be thankful for Doug Wojcik. I don't care for how much he used to yell at his own players, but I think even he has settled down a little since his 1st 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Makes it pretty embarrassing to be a TU fan right now. Honestly, reading that reminds me of the Louisville football fans. Wow. Not even the same universe. Kragthorpe hasn't done well with a team that made a BCS game the year before he came. He's a classy coach in a bad situation. Louisville fans have flooded our boards for years now whining about him. Kragthorpe doesn't even have his own staff there -- he inherited Petrino's and that has been part of the problem. The Wojcik thing is a different animal. Even the most negative TU fan will tell you they want Wojcik to succeed. Wojcik has rebuilt TU from its depths under Phillips. The criticism of Wojcik centers generally on two things: his playing style, where some purists think TU should only play up-tempo basketball (a bunch of bunk in my book), and his recruiting. I think there are some very fair questions about a couple of recruits that should be asked. If you have a center like Jordan, it's fair to ask the question as to why we don't have a point guard, even of the Shawn Williams variety, who could get him the ball. Wojcik gets paid the big bucks. The stuff like LEC being goofy at the game is not the issue. That will blow over. LEC will still have his seat on the end and Wojcik will still be the coach next year. The World really missed the boat on the coverage of this deal -- but that's what I expect from Sittler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I remember Gold*. He and AshVID used to post on the TU and ORU message boards. As for the "why are we talking TU", it's because - like it or not - TU and ORU are each fighting for the same front-running sports fans in town to supplement their hard-core fan bases. Consequently, everything that happens basketball-wise at 11th & Harvard affects the folks at 81st & Lewis, and vice-versa. We're just the only ones willing to admit it. I seem to remember hearing otherwise on this board. Maybe I'm misremembering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I seem to remember hearing otherwise on this board. Maybe I'm misremembering. Oh, you're probably thinking of where I've said a couple of times that I don't think beating TU - or even playing them - is as important to ORU now as it was 10 or 20 years ago, because of being in a conference now and not needing a win over TU to get natonal recognition or a post-season tournament berth. And I still stand by that: it's nice to be competitive with the TU's, OU's and OSU's of the world, but a loss to them is not the gutshot it used to be for ORU's ultimate season goals. This season is a perfect example: if ORU ends up winning the Summit League regular season or tournament championships, no one is going to care one bit what happened against TU in November, and it's going to have very little or no impact on ORU's postseason seeding. But, on the other hand, I think the public perception in town of where the two teams rank in relation to each other is very important to the overall health of the respective basketball programs. That perception extends beyond over who wins when they play each other. It involves the entire game experience: style of play, level of opponent, the seating, the band, the cheerleaders, the parking, the promotions - EVERYTHING. There's a decent number of college basketball fans in town who flit back and forth between the two school's home games due to factors such as these, and it doesn't take much to alienate them. So if fans are getting skittish at one program (like they were last fall during the RR fiasco) or frustrated at another (because the coach is calling them poor fans), then I think the fallout is significant to BOTH programs, at least at the turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 .... and that is where Doug Wojcik needs to be careful. If it is perceived that he is (directly or indirectly) alienating fans and keeping them from attending games (and spending money) - then the TU administration will move against him. Money talks.... TU is having a decent season and came within a hair of beating Memphis... they are not a fun team to watch to the casual fan, but their defense will keep them in games. I am almost certain that Wojcik will be back next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Which goes back to why I started this thread in the first place, and I think touches on what SeniorLovesTU alluded to: despite a winning record, there's no a whole lot of fun going on in the TU basketball program right now - on or off the court - and in contrast there seems to be a lot more fun happening in ORU basketball - on and off the court - despite a rocky start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Oh, you're probably thinking of where I've said a couple of times that I don't think beating TU - or even playing them - is as important to ORU now as it was 10 or 20 years ago, because of being in a conference now and not needing a win over TU to get natonal recognition or a post-season tournament berth. And I still stand by that: it's nice to be competitive with the TU's, OU's and OSU's of the world, but a loss to them is not the gutshot it used to be for ORU's ultimate season goals. This season is a perfect example: if ORU ends up winning the Summit League regular season or tournament championships, no one is going to care one bit what happened against TU in November, and it's going to have very little or no impact on ORU's postseason seeding. But, on the other hand, I think the public perception in town of where the two teams rank in relation to each other is very important to the overall health of the respective basketball programs. That perception extends beyond over who wins when they play each other. It involves the entire game experience: style of play, level of opponent, the seating, the band, the cheerleaders, the parking, the promotions - EVERYTHING. There's a decent number of college basketball fans in town who flit back and forth between the two school's home games due to factors such as these, and it doesn't take much to alienate them. So if fans are getting skittish at one program (like they were last fall during the RR fiasco) or frustrated at another (because the coach is calling them poor fans), then I think the fallout is significant to BOTH programs, at least at the turnstiles. I think the bigger issue lately is competition from the BOk, the Indian casinos, and just really unfortunate economic times. Wojcik's style doesn't exactly endear fans. I wonder if part of that is he is trying to win ugly because that's what he has the talent for or if he's just not that great an offensive coach. Maybe a little of both. The comments were a wrong time, wrong place deal. Everyone was upset after that loss. There are some other things I noticed that bothered me, but I've kept all that off the boards. Then we have Sittler -- the local sports tabloid writer -- making a mountain out of a molehill. LEC isn't the problem. Why Woj was listening to that and not coaching his team is a whole other deal. This will pass. As for fun, everything I hear is that the current players are having a ball. The fans are a whole other deal. Some issues remain with the in-game production. Losing to OSU and OU the way we did certainly didn't do much to excite the casual fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I doubt the coaches of the Drillers, Talons, 66ers or even Thunder would get much mileage out of complaining about their fans, their promotions, their cheerleaders/band, The Beach Boys, etc. What is it about college coaches (Wojcik, Stoops, etc.) that makes them think it's OK to shame their own fans/alumni into cheering harder for their teams? Isn't player motivation the responsibility of the coaching staff? I just appreciate Scott Sutton's take on the whole thing. Talk about someone who could have a legitimate reason to complain about fan support, at least in terms of sheer numbers! Yet he seems genuinely appreciative of every fan that follows ORU, to the point where I would swear he and his staff appear to have a sense of obligation to provide "ORU fan" with a win every time out, and seem apologetic whenever it doesn't happen. Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I don't think Sutton would ever thinking about pulling the nonsense about calling out the fans. In fairness, Wojcik has made two comments about the atmosphere in two years. The first was well deserved. Whoever runs the Reynolds Center and/or plans the schedule of events at games really needs to get it together. It has improved slightly, but please no more little kid dance routines. I'd rather they let middle school kids play a game every half. Whatever the case, that first episode brought about some changes. The second comment has really been taken out of context. He said that sometimes the crowd waits for the players to get them going and that instead the players might benefit if the crowd tries to get them going. He didn't dwell on it. He didn't call Canester or TUMe names. Woj is an emotional guy and I think he was upset. He had a point -- a lot of TU fans (not all) sit on their hands way too much. That needs to improve. But that goes back to the wrong time/wrong place thing. Everyone was let down, not just him. Woj made a similar comment on 1430 yesterday that made a lot more sense. He said our fans spend way too much time on the refs and that's totally true. I'm one of the worst offenders. If he had waited a couple of days after the game, or gotten on the PA before the game, or figured out some way of telling the fans what he wants them to do, it would have worked. There's a communication issue in all of this and it has long been a mystery, just as much as why Woj won't talk about Hernandez and Jackson leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKC Eagle Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 and in contrast there seems to be a lot more fun happening in ORU basketball - on and off the court - despite a rocky start. I think Mr. Ford gets a lot of the "fun" credit so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I just appreciate Scott Sutton's take on the whole thing. Talk about someone who could have a legitimate reason to complain about fan support, at least in terms of sheer numbers! Yet he seems genuinely appreciative of every fan that follows ORU, to the point where I would swear he and his staff appear to have a sense of obligation to provide "ORU fan" with a win every time out, and seem apologetic whenever it doesn't happen. You know OT, thanks for pulling my coat here because I meant to post this actually a couple weeks ago...after we had struggled to our 3-11 record heading into January, Scott really stood up and acknowledged that we probably should have won 3-4 more ballgames (so a 6-8 or 7-7 record rather than 3-11). He didn't make excuses for it really other than pointing out that he really underestimated how much practice time they would lose due to the heavy travel schedule in December which made it more challenging for the team to get better while playing (and losing) all those games. But again that "excuse" was something Scott actually owned as his own responsibility and he shouldered 100% of the blame. How he spoke about our 3-11 record just confirmed again for me why Scott is so likeable...he's just a genuine high quality guy. Truly much more endearing to fans (both casual and die-hard) than pointing fingers at other folks and passing the buck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You know OT, thanks for pulling my coat here because I meant to post this actually a couple weeks ago...after we had struggled to our 3-11 record heading into January, Scott really stood up and acknowledged that we probably should have won 3-4 more ballgames (so a 6-8 or 7-7 record rather than 3-11). He didn't make excuses for it really other than pointing out that he really underestimated how much practice time they would lose due to the heavy travel schedule in December which made it more challenging for the team to get better while playing (and losing) all those games. But again that "excuse" was something Scott actually owned as his own responsibility and he shouldered 100% of the blame. How he spoke about our 3-11 record just confirmed again for me why Scott is so likeable...he's just a genuine high quality guy. Truly much more endearing to fans (both casual and die-hard) than pointing fingers at other folks and passing the buck... +1 great take GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.