MrsSmith Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 This has a small relevance to sports. We went to the Stephen Curtis Chapman/Michael W Smith concert last night at the new Spirit Center on Memorial. The concert was wonderful. I thought the venue was nice and the sound was good (those two would sound good in a barn though). It is a weird setup that you enter on one side of the arena and you cannot walk around the top to get to the other side. It was totally sold out and getting there and out was quite a mess. Even though they had traffic cops, the lines were very long and the concert couldn't start on time since a good percentage of the crowd was still in line on Memorial. Contrasting the nearly sold out BOK center on Tuesday for Neil Diamond where we had almost no wait getting in or out of town. It will be interesting to see if they can get these issues worked out for future events at the Spirit center, especially the 66ers. Of course I doubt that they will have anywhere near that kind of crowd. Anyone else have any thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I have not been to the arena. How does the Spirit Center compare to the Mabee Center? I suspect that this arena would more directly compete for business than the BOK Center. The Tulsa area seems to be over supplied with arenas now (Mabee Center, BOK Center, Spirit Center, UMAC and the new Broken Arrow PAC). I know that these are not all the same, but it does highlight the competition the Mabee Center faces in booking events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I was there for the opening night of the SpiritBank Event Center, at a less edifying event, shall we say !!! It's a neat venue, and I think they'll have a lot of good shows there, but traffic IS a bear! I guess you just need to plan to get their early. One good thing, the parking garage, only a few feet away from the SEC, only costs $4.00! That's got to be a best buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I have not been to the arena. How does the Spirit Center compare to the Mabee Center? I suspect that this arena would more directly compete for business than the BOK Center. The Tulsa area seems to be over supplied with arenas now (Mabee Center, BOK Center, Spirit Center, UMAC and the new Broken Arrow PAC). I know that these are not all the same, but it does highlight the competition the Mabee Center faces in booking events. Only holds 4500, and isn't nearly as nice or well appointed as the Mabee Center. I think that the SpiritBank Event Center will probably host things that the Mabee Center wouldn't be interested in, such as mixed martial arts events and certain secular rock groups. On the other hand, according to their web site they are hosting the Creation Festival, a group of touring Christian rock bands and a guest speaker, which seems like it would have been right up Mabee Center's Alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Not sure the management of the Mabee Center is up to par.... Just an outsider's observation, but they might need to readjust their business model a bit and change the way they do (or don't do) things. Competition can expose a lot of things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I have not been to the arena. How does the Spirit Center compare to the Mabee Center? I suspect that this arena would more directly compete for business than the BOK Center. The Tulsa area seems to be over supplied with arenas now (Mabee Center, BOK Center, Spirit Center, UMAC and the new Broken Arrow PAC). I know that these are not all the same, but it does highlight the competition the Mabee Center faces in booking events. We have talked about this on the TU board some. At least with concerts, it seems like Tulsa may have maxed out its market. We have had some really fantastic acts come through the last few years (especially with smaller venues like Cain's) and we are getting some great stuff with the BOK. The question is at what point do you drain all the entertainment dollars. I hear more and more concerts ads on the radio, making me think we may have hit that point. The good news is that top acts will still sell out the BOK and Cain's, I imagine. But venues in need of some work, like Brady, I'm worried about. From the sound of things -- and I have no plans to visit the arena in Bixby in the future -- Mabee Center has a HUGE advantage in terms of parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 In some respects, with it's upper level concession stands, it reminded me of a smaller version of the UMAC. The upper deck doesn't wrap all the way around, as it does in the UMAC, though. Many of the concert ads that are running are from casinos. They bring in lots of 70's acts that are touring around. I don't know how much those affect more traditional concert venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I'm talking about recent ads for STP, Ryan Adams, Willie Nelson and others who used to sell out their shows with no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I'm not arguing here - I really don't know if Tulsa's entertainment dollars are tapped out or not - but I do know that Willie is playing at Cain's, where he has played before when in Tulsa, and that they've added another show due to demand. While Willie Nelson still has a lot of respect from older country music fans, I don't think he's the draw that he once was. A couple of years ago he played at a little home town celebration called the Old Thresher's Reunion that we go to every Labor's Day weekend in my wife's home town in Iowa. Those that play there are typically the has-beens and peripheral musicians that never quite made the big time. The fact that Willie played there kind of told me where he stands at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Willie plays a lot of shows. There is a fairly recent Urban Tulsa article about one of his promoters, Larry Shaeffer, who used to own Cain's back in the day. That said, Willie came through and played two shows at Cain's in 2001. Both sold out fast. Maybe it's an issue of Willie killing his own demand with too much product. Same thing, perhaps, with Bob Dylan (who just isn't very good live anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 We haven't seen anything yet when it comes to over-saturation: Cherokee Casino in Catoosa's long-range plan includes a 12,000-seat arena across the street to the east that will host everything from concerts to boxing/MMA events to rodeos - all within walking distance to the largest casino/hotel/resort in the state, with Oklahoma's only "Hard Rock Cafe". As soon as the intersection with I-44 gets fixed (approximately 2 years), they plan to officially announce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 We haven't seen anything yet when it comes to over-saturation: Cherokee Casino in Catoosa's long-range plan includes a 12,000-seat arena across the street to the east that will host everything from concerts to boxing/MMA events to rodeos - all within walking distance to the largest casino/hotel/resort in the state, with Oklahoma's only "Hard Rock Cafe". As soon as the intersection gets fixed (approximately 2 years), they plan to officially announce. If Garth Brooks plays the Cherokee Casino before he plays the BOK Mayor Taylor is going to be hacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 That arena would directly compete with the downtown arena. Gotta believe that the city leaders would plead/beg for the casino not to do that. There might even be a threat or two (behind the scenes) thrown in. Not sure what the city can do against a tribe though. Do you think they might be re-thinking their promotion of gaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 That arena would directly compete with the downtown arena. Gotta believe that the city leaders would plead/beg for the casino not to do that. There might even be a threat or two (behind the scenes) thrown in. Not sure what the city can do against a tribe though. Do you think they might be re-thinking their promotion of gaming? I would think that the only form of threat they could make would be some sort of political pressure, because, obviously, the casino is way out of the jurisdiction of the City of Tulsa. As you say, Terry, they may be further insulated from political pressures by the fact that they building will be on what I assume is tribal land. I suppose that when a Native American tribe buys any property that makes it tribal land, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 That arena might technically be in city limits though I doubt it - it is certainly close though. It doesn't matter though because the city would have no/limited jurisdiction. My understanding is that if a tribe acquires land in the former "Indian Territory", that real estate becomes tribal land and subject to tribal law. If this is true and not an 'urban legend', the Oklahoma tribes could take a lot of land off the tax rolls if they were inclined. Maybe one of our attorneys could opine on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Reacquired land is a little more complicated than that. I used to know this, but I'd have to look it up and I think my book that has the answer is as the office. I think it has to do with factors like how long a parcel was outside of tribal control, whether it was ever really Indian land, and potentially whether the Department of Interior will take it in trust. It's really interesting stuff. I also think the casinos heavily factor into the equation on local entertainment dollars. KT could put pressure through the state if she wanted, but I imagine there would be some quid pro quo (i.e. OKC gets some silly project in exchange). You really think they'll get I-44 done in two years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have the tribe has 'donated' money to get I-44 widened.... it is going to happen. Too many accidents in that area for it not to be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 After posting earlier today I talked to one of my employees that lives close to the casino - I didn't realize that it was as close to Tulsa city limits as it is - I guess it's located on the north side of I-44, on the west side of 193rd E. Ave, which is the eastern border of Tulsa. So it may actually sit inside Tulsa city limits, right on the edge. I thought it was quite a bit further east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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