Light hearted teasing...Ok...but this....

[rlh]

For you that don't read the Valpo board, your buddy Eaglebackr has for the second time accused me of being racially motivated for stating that I would vote for Dan Oppland over Caleb Green for Player of the Year. I want all of you to know that that has nothing what so ever to do with my opinion. I am sure that the main reason is because I am a Valpo fan, just as you are ORU fans and therefore will always favor your team's player. I have sent a private message to Eaglebackr telling him what I think of him as a person and as I stated before, I will no longer respond to his posts on either board (for some reason he is on our board more than yours nowdays)...I just wanted to clear the air so that my friends in Tulsa would know that these charges are untrue. I love Caleb Green and how he plays the game, but I also love Dan Oppland and how he plays. I think we are very lucky to have two such players in the Mid-Con for us to enjoy....good natured teasing is what these exchanges are all about...but this is over the line. I wish I had not given up the moderator job on the Valpo board just so I could ban him from posting there....but such is life...I hope you understand why I posted this message.....I am personally deeply hurt by the innuendo contained in Eaglebackr's posts and feel I have to defend myself. I won't again....

[tmh8286]

I agree with everything you said, rlh. I saw that on the Valpo board yesterday, and thought you handled it very well - by not responding. You have the right to form an opinion regarding players and it's pretty outrageous to be accused of racism because you choose one over the other any time, but especially when the two are reasonably close in the numbers they put up game in and game out, the work ethic of both players is outstanding, and both are standouts in their respective teams.

I know you personally, can attest for your character, and regret this repeated challenge to you.

On the other hand, I don't think that any ORU fans take that charge seriously at all. It's just the misbehavior of one of our wayward children.

Sorry!

[Guest EagleBackr]

I call 'em like I see 'em, ESPECIALLY when it comes to racism. This particular offender may claim to "love" Caleb, but SEVERAL TIMES over the past two seasons he has specifically questioned Caleb's work ethic and attitude compared to Oppland. You don't have to be black to see where he's coming from with those comments. And if ANY of you think I'm not going to point out racism whenever I see it, even when it's sugar-coated, then you're dead wrong. Just as you are free to post your opinion of me, Caleb Green, Dan Oppland, and everyone else; I am entitled to my opinion, as well...

[MrsSmith]

If you guys knew who I was, you would understand why.

So tell us who you are.

[TD]

Eaglebackr, you once took a step back and evaluated some of the negative things you said on this board. You then deleted a bunch of your messages. Might I make this suggestion. Step back & take a good look at what you're saying and what has been posted by others (including rlh) and see if you might change your opinion and stop making quick reactionary posts. Let's stop escalating this problem.

[Stl VU Fan]

I call 'em like I see 'em, ESPECIALLY when it comes to racism. This particular offender may claim to "love" Caleb, but SEVERAL TIMES over the past two seasons he has specifically questioned Caleb's work ethic and attitude compared to Oppland. You don't have to be black to see where he's coming from with those comments.

And such a sparse argument with such a wild inuitive leap would be thrown out of any court in the land. PROVE that someone who questions work ethic and attitude is doing so because of the color of skin.

And if ANY of you think I'm not going to point out racism whenever I see it, even when it's sugar-coated, then you're dead wrong. Just as you are free to post your opinion of me, Caleb Green, Dan Oppland, and everyone else; I am entitled to my opinion, as well...

Your commitment is commendable. Try beefing up your forensic diagnostic skills to equal that commitment. I have been on the receiving end of this kind of shoddy accusation myself once or twice, and you are doing your cause no good whatsoever. You are bearing false witness against a neighbor, a sin against the 8th commandment. Add to this the fact tthat no one really knows who you are, and I'm talking about your fellow ORU fans, and I really have to wonder what's going on with you.

[ORU Eli]

if there were racial slurs or generalizations being used, I'd understand. But I don't see what the point is of voicing an opinion that is, at best, based on limited knowledge or conclusions and will get everyboby stirred up b/c nobody else seems to share that opinion...

...or the point could BE just to get everybody stirred up and that's a little ridiculous to me. You have a right to your opinion but with such limited information to back it up, I think its wiser to just keep it to yourself unless your only motive is to get people upset, in which case, you need to grow up a little bit.

[Guest EagleBackr]

Eaglebackr, you once took a step back and evaluated some of the negative things you said on this board. You then deleted a bunch of your messages. Might I make this suggestion. Step back & take a good look at what you're saying and what has been posted by others (including rlh) and see if you might change your opinion and stop making quick reactionary posts. Let's stop escalating this problem.

This is not a "quick reactionary" observation on my part. It is what I see as a pattern over a long period of time. And since when is pointing out what I perceive as an injustice considered "negative" and "escalating this problem"? Wouldn't condoning it by remaining silent be the NEGATIVE thing to do? Are we so superficial on this forum that we can't soberly discuss an IMPORTANT issue like racial bias? I think we're up to the challenge, don't you? Or are we just going to stick to such scintilating topics as our uniform colors and Andrew Meloy's haircut? We can't solve the world's problems on a message board, folks, but we can't make them go away by burying out heads in our keyboards, either...

[Guest EagleBackr]

...such a sparse argument with such a wild inuitive leap would be thrown out of any court in the land. PROVE that someone who questions work ethic and attitude is doing so because of the color of skin.

I am refering, of course, to the racial steretype that is so pervasive in the basketball world today: the hard-working white player who overcomes his lack of athletic ability with hard work and team play vs. the naturally gifted black player who overcomes shoddy skills and questionable work ethic with sheer athleticsm. I'm so sick of it I could puke. You hear it all the time through code words like "he's such a heady player" or "he's like a coach on the floor" for the white point guard, but "he's so athletic" or "he poses such a match-up problem" for the black point guard with the same stats. CAN'T WE JUST SAY J.J. REDDICK AND DEE BROWN ARE BOTH GREAT GUARDS AND LEAVE IT AT THAT?!? The simple fact is, Caleb Green IS a hard worker in addition to being "what the NBA is looking for", and Dan Oppland IS a superior athlete in addition to being "a warrior", and that's why both of them are so successful...

[Guest EagleBackr]

I agree with everything you said, rlh. I saw that on the Valpo board yesterday, and thought you handled it very well - by not responding....sorry!

I don't know where YOU were looking, tmh8286, but the response from "rlh" I saw on the Valpo board said, among other things, I was "an a$$" and challenged me to a fight! Where's MY apology?

[orumom]

I don't know if any of you watched the Chicago State vs Louisville game the other night, but at one point Coach Kevin Jones started pushing his son on the sidelines and an assistant had to come between them. The announcers started talking about how much a parent who coaches expects from their child

Then the announcers talked about when Al McGuire was coaching one of his players came to him and said "I'm as good as your son! Why do you play him & not me?" McGuire's reply was "Because I love my son. For you to play instead of my son, you would have to be better." RLH has every right to be loyal to Dan, just as we do to be loyal to Caleb. In other words, all things being equal, who would you expect him to vote for?

Eaglebacker, I remember your telling me to lay off of the cooking sherry & cough syrup on the TU Board and what I said didn't have the spirit of hate that your statements do.

I think you have gone straight to rubbing alcohol. Sober up and think about the people you hurt with your statements and the image you create. You have been tolerated for some time time, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to see you banned from this board.

[Guest EagleBackr]

Eaglebacker, I remember your telling me to lay off of the cooking sherry & cough syrup on the TU Board and what I said didn't have the spirit of hate that your statements do.

Pointing out what I sincerely feel is racial bias is a "spirit of hate"?!? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!!! Isn't in fact RACISM the "spirit of hate"? Pointing it out is my DUTY as a Christian! Yeah, OK - if hating racism is what I'm accused of, then I plead guilty!! Your posts on the TU message board said you basically disliked the TU fans themselves - I don't dislike the Valpo fan in question, I just dislike his position. But, if you want ORUTerry to ban me, that's yours and his perogative - I know I'll sleep pretty good knowing I'm right...

[orumom]

Try reading for comprehension. I said I didn't like their actions, not them as individuals.

Only a coward hides behind a secret identity. You are the only one on the board that hasn't revealed who they are.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those of you who had Dr. Gillen........What do we do with fools?

We shun them

[Guest EagleBackr]

Try reading for comprehension. I said I didn't like their actions, not them as individuals.

You know, mom, I was all fired up because you questioned my honesty (or at least my memory) regarding all those posts you made on the night of December 4th on the TU message board, so I went over there to pick a few choice tidbits out to prove my point and discovered you had GONE IN AND EDITED THEM the next day! LOL - smooth move! But I did notice you left one or two intact where you called them "crybabies" for not wanting to play us anymore!

Anyway, I'm still baffled by why my heartfelt defense of the one player who is the greatest thing to happen to ORU basketball in 20 years has met with such rancor from folks such as you, but I guess if everyone else agrees with you on the topic, I'll drop it. But I do find it ironic and a bit preposterous that a bunch of WASP's on an internet message board feel so strongly that the original comments I protested WEREN'T racially motivated. How can you be so sure when you have never had to deal with racism yourself?

P.S. Regarding my anonymity, I have covered that topic ad nauseum - it obviously allows me a certain amount of freedom when it comes to fully expressing my oft-times controversial opinions. I highly recommend it for all those who have already come out of the cyber-closet with your identities - just chuck that recognizable moniker and come back with a new pen name. If any of you think that makes me "cowardly", then I guess you are entitled to your opinion. And if you would like to fight me, too, then just get in line behind "rlh"....

[Stl VU Fan]

I am refering, of course, to the racial steretype that is so pervasive in the basketball world today: the hard-working white player who overcomes his lack of athletic ability with hard work and team play vs. the naturally gifted black player who overcomes shoddy skills and questionable work ethic with sheer athleticsm.

And that is precisely my beef with you. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IS RLH'S MOTIVATION???????????????????????????????????????

Just because SOME have that motivation in mind, DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE DOES BY DEFINITION!!!!!!!!

I'm so sick of it I could puke. You hear it all the time through code words like "he's such a heady player" or "he's like a coach on the floor" for the white point guard, but "he's so athletic" or "he poses such a match-up problem" for the black point guard with the same stats.

The pervasive stereotype at work here is the one YOU are employing against RLH.

I am so sick to death of this "code words" rant. The "code words" - if such a concept exists - are also legitimate transparent words as well. Are you saying that Caleb is beyond being questioned? Not simply that it is wrong for rlh to QUESTION (note, not denigrate, but QUESTION) his work ethic because his work ethic is just fine, but that it is wrong for rlh to question his work ethic because it is Caleb Green we are talking about?

There is an important distinction between smearing a player for the color of his skin and criticizing a player for his performance on the court, and you are completely and wrecklessly obliterating that distinction for some as yet unknown reason.

CAN'T WE JUST SAY J.J. REDDICK AND DEE BROWN ARE BOTH GREAT GUARDS AND LEAVE IT AT THAT?!? The simple fact is, Caleb Green IS a hard worker in addition to being "what the NBA is looking for", and Dan Oppland IS a superior athlete in addition to being "a warrior", and that's why both of them are so successful...

Ya know, if you had simply stated your belief that Caleb is a hard worker and asked rlh how he could possibly have come to that conclusion, none of this brouhaha would have even happened. But even last year, when this started, you immediately played the race card WITHOUT any justification, lumping rlh in with your so-called pervasive stereotype crowd sight unseen.

THAT is VERY offensive.

[tmh8286]

Okay, for the record, I was on the Valpo board about 10:00 last night, and at that time there had been no response to your accusations.

When I posted this AM I had not been back on the Valpo board, and hadn't seen rlh's response that was posted after I was over there.

No apology needed, only clarification.

[Stl VU Fan]

Your pattern matching skills are substandard. Forensically speaking, you are an amateur.

Start a SOBER discussion on it and I will support you 100%. What's negative about this particular discussion is NOT that it is simply a topic about racism, but rather it is a topic about you wrecklessly throwing around accusations without sufficient evidence to back them up.

[Stl VU Fan]

Anyway, I'm still baffled by why my heartfelt defense of the one player who is the greatest thing to happen to ORU basketball in 20 years has met with such rancor from folks such as you, but I guess if everyone else agrees with you on the topic, I'll drop it. But I do find it ironic and a bit preposterous that a bunch of WASP's on an internet message board feel so strongly that the original comments I protested WEREN'T racially motivated. How can you be so sure when you have never had to deal with racism yourself?

Because we know the guy and you don't.

How can you be SO SURE they ARE racially motivated?