ORU-MSU

[ORUTerry]

Uh... my head hurts. Please tell me that there will not be a test on this later. I'm just glad ORU won the game... no matter which pitcher gets credit for the win.

[Old Titan]

Like I said, if Luna pitched OK - and it appears he did - I have no problem with him getting the win and Crichton getting the save.  Both did well, it's good for both to come away with something.

But you're right - there are a LOT of areas in scoring a baseball game where the official scorer just uses his judgement.

Here's an example of a slightly different scenario:  What if Tackett had pitched seven solid innings, but left the game in a 2-2 tie.  Then Luna comes in and gives up four runs in the bottom of the eighth before finally retiring the side, for one inning of work.  But, ORU comes back in the top of the ninth with seven runs to take the lead, and goes on to close out the game with Crichton pitching the bottom of the ninth.

NO WAY I would give Luna the win in that situation, even though technically he was the pitcher of record when ORU scored the seven runs - it would have to go to Crichton in my book, though it's a shame you can't still just give it to the starter, Tackett.  He was actually the most effective pitcher over the full nine innings.  But, that's baseball!

[tmh8286]

You know, I really never gave this stuff much thought until the last year or so.  But the game of baseball has had over a hundred years to figure out how to handle these situations, and when you think it through, it really all makes sense.  Imagine that!

[Bogus Smith]

But you're right - there are a LOT of areas in scoring a baseball game where the official scorer just uses his judgement.

You're right...not only is there the judgment call on wins vs. saves, but hits vs. errors (and who gets the error), sacrifice flies, sacrifice bunts, passed balls vs. wild pitches, etc.  That's what makes the game of baseball such an interesting sport.  A lot of people find it boring, but you have to be a life-long student of the inner workings of the game to really appreciate the strategy and statistics that go along with the history of the sport.  "Back in the day", I got the chance to work in AAA baseball for a few seasons.  There were many a night when players went up to the press box to see the official scorer to ask why a hit was scored an error and vice versa.  When the future and money is on the line for someone's livelihood, there is a level of seriousness that takes place in these situations that goes beyond balls and strikes - even at the college level.

[TrueBlue82]

Sorry I missed out on the chance to respond to this post earlier, OT, but it looks like you did well without me.

Judgment calls occur in baseball games almost every night.  I can remember my days in the J.L. Johnson press box when I had the final "official" call.  If it was a big game with a press presence and a very debatable call, I would often turn to the press room and take a "thumbs up, thumbs down" survey of the room (John Klein was always one of the best to play along).  I wouldn't always take the majority vote, but I would take it into consideration - and there were often jeers and/or applause when the decision hit the scoreboard.

Once the decision hit the scoreboard, you would think that the issue was over, but that's when the fun would REALLY begin!  I would quickly survey the home dugout to see if "Skipper" Cochell was standing up and walking to the dugout phone.  If I saw him moving, I knew I was toast.  He had a direct line from the dugout to the scorer's box - and he would let me know what HE saw and what HE expected me to do.  In most cases, he would tell me about a bad hop that I couldn't see from my angle - or something else to "recommend" revising the call - and of course, as the dutiful ORU statistician, I would follow his lead.  I can only remember once or twice that I listened to his update - and didn't make the change - and I don't think he ever forgave me!

[tmh8286]

I was hoping you'd weigh in on this discussion, Blue.  I knew you'd have an interesting perspective.

[Old Titan]

Sorry I missed out on the chance to respond to this post earlier, OT, but it looks like you did well without me.

Judgment calls occur in baseball games almost every night.  I can remember my days in the J.L. Johnson press box when I had the final "official" call.  If it was a big game with a press presence and a very debatable call, I would often turn to the press room and take a "thumbs up, thumbs down" survey of the room (John Klein was always one of the best to play along).  I wouldn't always take the majority vote, but I would take it into consideration - and there were often jeers and/or applause when the decision hit the scoreboard.

Once the decision hit the scoreboard, you would think that the issue was over, but that's when the fun would REALLY begin!  I would quickly survey the home dugout to see if "Skipper" Cochell was standing up and walking to the dugout phone.  If I saw him moving, I knew I was toast.  He had a direct line from the dugout to the scorer's box - and he would let me know what HE saw and what HE expected me to do.  In most cases, he would tell me about a bad hop that I couldn't see from my angle - or something else to "recommend" revising the call - and of course, as the dutiful ORU statistician, I would follow his lead.  I can only remember once or twice that I listened to his update - and didn't make the change - and I don't think he ever forgave me!

Hey, JB - were we working together in the press box the time Ron Henika, after being called for what he felt was a questionable error, sprinted in from third base, grabbed the phone, and yelled at me to "come down to the dugout so he could kick my ass"?

I distinctly remember leaning forward to look down at the dugout, and he was standing out on the steps, giving me the finger!!

(I'm kind of figuring that must have been after your stint, since if you had been there, YOU would have been the official scorer and not me, and I wouldn't have been answering the dugout phone).

Anyway, Ronnie and I had a laugh about it later, but at the time I was seriously wondering if he was going to come up to the press box and rip me a new one!