ORU - TU Game Observations

[ORUTerry]

In no particular order:

1. We will arguably be better next year....

2. ORU came out of the blocks with passion and emotion. TU could not get on track. Without Price playing incredibly on offense in the first half it would have been uglier.

3. Green is a monster.... he was unstoppable at times. Tutt also made some nice shots. I think we could have gotten them the ball some more during the game.

4. Michalec played well. He took the first several shots of the game.... wonder if he or the coaches read the message boards???

5. We had too many turnovers and played sloppy at times - that is to be expected with a large lead and multiple lineup changes.

6. Vealy is a special player. Nice 15 foot jumper; also blocked a shot (or two?) and stole a pass. His defense is getting better.

7. TU played hard the whole game; last year they folded in the second half when they were down. Wojic has them playing hard even if the talent is not there.

8. Ramsdell no ZERO points. He was in and out of the game and seemed to play tenatively on offense - though Owens/Ogunoye and Green had something to do about that. Not sure I understood the TU substitution pattern. Moved Ramsdell and Price (?) out of the game when I thought they needed to keep them in.... The TU players were not happy with each other in the first half - lots of gestures and looks.

[EasyTELGuy]

What an awesome game! In a word: DOMINATION!!! From start to finish!!!

Caleb was unstoppable! Ken looked relaxed and in great form! I haven't read the stats yet...but boy, we have a pretty special team going here!

Chello is just going to keep getting better! His defense DID pick up tonight!

Speaking of defense, I am super impressed with our defensive effort in so many games this year... even though our offense goes in waves, in terms of intensity, I'm really pleased with how tough we play defensively every time down the court!

WAY TO GO EAGLES! MAKE DECEMBER YOUR BEST MONTH EVER AS A TEAM!!!

[EaglEyes]

ORU came to play tonight!! They did a great job & I just LOVE watching them play with such passion. The smile on Caleb's face alone was really entertaining! Awesome way to beat TU!

[ORUTerry]

Caleb was playing most of the game with a huge grin on his face.... it was fun to watch. That is usually an indicator that he is "on". I thought Coach Sutton did a good job of rotating players and letting Vealy get some more time under his belt. We need him to develop and contribute later in the season.

[ORUTerry]

Link to story on ORU Athletic Department web site:

http://www.orugoldeneagles.com/index.php?url_channel_id=2&url_publish_channel_id=3854&url_subchannel_id=&well_id=2

[maniac prez]

that "smile" that you all are referring to is the "BEAT TU SMILE" that caleb gets every time that he has played them, I remember back to my freshmen year and he blew up on them, he just absolutely loves to beat them because when he came outta HS TU was legit, and they didn't even give him the time of day til late in his senior season, so he just loves rubbing it right back in their faces and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! Caleb has been dominant this year, he was great the last two years, but he's a different player this year, he can't be stopped, I love to watch him play. Ken looked very comfortable tonight, and I loved the intensity the guys had on D, we came outta the blocks so hard, we didn't even let them have a chance, we can beat most people if we play with that kind of heart and intensity, it was awesome!!!!!

[BasPlayr]

This is slightly lengthy, but please read all of it as I am trying to offer an impartial opinion here.

I agree that Mr. Green (I refer to him as such because he is indeed earned that respect these past 3 years) does seem to enjoy "Rubbing it in their faces", but i certainly hope that that is not his motivating factor. Whose face is he still trying to rub it in? There is no longer anyone At TU that had anything to do with, or control over, his recruitment situation. You can't say the players are still there, because the only ones still there are Price & Wallace, and they didn't have any control over that situation, nor could they have, and it is clearly evident that Mr. Green wasn't "overlooked" for either of them. The Coaches are gone, the staff that was there is gone, all the players that were recruited "instead of" Mr. Green are gone & the AD is gone. He has nothing more to prove to anyone at TU. The TU fans have already admitted that they too believe it was a mistake & disservice to Mr. Green to not have offered him. So, it is time to move past the "rubbing it in their faces" stuff. He has nothing more to prove to anyone in Tulsa except that he can lear ORU to the next step in his teams progress. That is to lead them to the Conference tournament Championship and then to the NCAA's. When that happens, maybe some of the "disbelievers" will be quieted and proper respect will be given to the ORU program. One thing that must happen for your team to be successful in getting to the NCAA's is for your entire squad to step up their level of play to that of Mr. Green's on a consistant basis. I personally believe this is their year to do it.

Although last nights performance was pretty dominating, the outcome of last nights game could have, and should have, been much worse. Championship teams never lose sight of the task at hand.

Here are some things that come to mind about the contest.

1) TU played pretty lousy basketball most of the night. Some of that is directly contributable to the quality of talent on the team you have, but alot of it comes from the maturity/experience of your team versues that of TU's. Had TU played as well in the game as they did against OU, We all might have enjoyed a really competitive game. As it was, TU seemed to have come in overconfidant from the OU game and simply stunk up the place.

2) ORU, at times (and by admission from some of your own fans), played sloppy basketball as well (just not anywhere near as sloppy as TU). This is something that can be attributed to the fact that after you jumped out to a large lead, the players relaxed and got into a "we own TU" attitude, thus leading to sloppy passing, ball handling, and shot selection. this cannot happen if the team is to make it into, and win games in, the NCAA's.

The next game up for ORU is a pretty significant game. Sloppy play will hurt you more against the next opponent, but more importantly, sloppy play against the Sooners at the end of the month end up costing you a game that you should win.

Now that said, I believe this is ORU's Year and am pulling for them to win their conference, the tournament and even advance in the NCAA's. I am confidant that the staff will point out the same thing that I observed and that this team will move past this "rubbing it in their faces" thing and take care of their "Unfinished Business". Good luck for the reaminder of the season. Go take care of the Sooners, and then go dominate your conference foes the way you have dominated a lowly TU. Hopefully next year I can see a much more competitive game.

[ORUTerry]

I agree that we must get our turnover problem fixed. We are not protecting the ball like we should and it is costing us possessions. Our perimeter shooting must also improve. I know we had different combinations in the game during the second half, but 30% fg percentage (2nd half) is a bit weak....

[BasPlayr]

That is what I am talking about.

And I don't believe that TU's defense had that much to do with those things either.

I know it is tough to stay focused when you are ahead by 20+, but that is the "Mental toughness/discipline" that has to be developed in this early part of the season.

[tmh8286]

BasPlayr, I know your one of the good guys on the TU board, you come to the defense of ORU FREQUENTLY over there, and post insightful and quality posts over here, and I respect you. I take your post just the way you intended it, as an impartial opinion on the game and the attitudes of players. I think that you're right: Green has no reason to be rubbing it in to TU at this point. He's not showing anyone who was involved out there at the time. Fact is, that motivation for playing hard against TU bugs me, because I, like most all ORU fans, wish Caleb was at ORU because he wanted to be, and not because he was overlooked by his first choice. But I'm dealing with it .

But you have to keep in mind that the players have computers too, and almost certainly read the boards. Do you think Mickey might have read this post by thatruth213?

"Wrongo. I have seen ORU twice this year. The bench is solid, but nothing close to the athletic depth of OU. ORU is a good basketball team, who is refuting that? I think I said ORU would win the game? I think they will. I think the big guy is a liability against mobile big men, which TU has. He is still slow, and he still has zero offensive savvy."

Or this one:

"I am not going to argue with you here, Price and Rams are both much better basketball players than Mickey. Both are very mobile. Ramsdell is an impossible matcup for Mickey. You don't want him chasing Rams around the perimeter. You will see the big guy matched on Price, who is a low post scorer. That matchup is not favorable either. Price is very mobile and that will cause the big guy trouble. Its one of the few matchups TU can exploit in their favor. Your Eagle shades are blinding you to this one. If ORU had a big time center you would be talking sweet 16. Eaglebackr, you wouldn't happen to sit on the ORU bench....Would you"

Or this by mcane:

"I am anxiously awaiting to see the strategy vs. ORU - Woj please see the Oakland video. ORU gets impatient if it can't run fluidly. Green is a petulant player that pouts when he can't get the ball. Sink on him and make Tutt and Bluitt shoot. The same game plan as against OU. Key will be for TU to handle the pressure. ORU is a two man team - look at the box scores - don't worry about Owens, Michalec or Bluitt. Keep the game in the 60s and TU has a chance."

Or this from t-townpod:

"Good assesment. MM will get a few cheap points due to his size and probable typical ORU home court officiating."

goldencaine weighed in:

"If MM was this great, he wouldn't only be playing 20 minutes. Give me a break, this kid wanted to come to TU and we did not offer, he was a last minute offer for Knight at Texas Tech and didn't pan out. MM is no better than Teichman was last year...That's not a knock, but you all are making him sound like an allstar."

Mickey may have felt a little persecuted after all of that, and felt he had something to prove.

Maybe some of the others on the team saw this post by red dirt. I know he's kind of on the fringes even on the TU board, but ORU team members may not know that:

"Outmanned? ORU may be better this year but we will never be outmanned by a Mid-Con team. ORU is thinking how great they are but PLEASE quit these thoughts. You have NOT won a conference title. You have NOT been to the NCAA tournament in many, many years. You cannot even beat a low level team when it counts. That shows the choke aspect of ORU. They are players that everyone else passes on. Please stay in your spot as a low level D1 team that is a distant second to TU in sports and academics."

Or this:

"Can we please quit talking about how great ORU is? They have played no one. We have played no one and lost. That is their advantage. These ORU fans like a#$vid and Eagle whatever love to come over here and think they are bigtime. The bottom line is that TU really does not care about a lowere level team and that includes ORU. ORU does not want to believe that but it is true. We will probably lose this game but we will always be a better program. ORU needs to step back and understand that they HAVE NOT been to a recent NCAA Tourney and that they play in the WORST conference in America."

TUFan1, you gotta love her:

"Who cares? It is still O-R-Freakin'-U. If they want to make this game in to something it is not for many fans, all the more power to them. It does not, however, mean that any fan who doesn't think of the game as a "big deal" must change their opinion...or care any more about his game than any other game against a school half of the country (or more) has never heard of."

Those kinds of smack directed at the players and their school might have a way of affecting the intensity level of the players.

One other thing I might address regarding TU fans - many on the TU board have tried to downplay the importance of the Mayor's Cup game. So unimportant that some said they weren't going to come to it. I will say, of the ORU/TU games I've attended at Mabee Center, this one was probably least attended by TU fans. If the game was SO unimportant, why were there so many more TU fans there when TU was expected to BEAT "O-R-Freakin'-U"?

In regard to your following comment, "Although last nights performance was pretty dominating, the outcome of last nights game could have, and should have, been much worse. Championship teams never lose sight of the task at hand, " I think that you were making the point that we let up in the second half, and that probably is true. I suspect that that was a coaching decision. My observation of Scott Sutton is that he is never out to humiliate a team, and that is particularly so in this situation. It wasn't all that long ago that he was a first year head coach, and it was obvious that Sutton called off the dogs in the second half. Scott will see, work with and around Coach Woj in the future, and I don't think it's in Scott's personality to try to burn bridges in that relationship. Same with the players. No desire to humiliate. That's my take.

[ReallyBigORUFan]

I agree that Mr. Green (I refer to him as such because he is indeed earned that respect these past 3 years) does seem to enjoy "rubbing it in their faces", but i certainly hope that that is not his motivating factor. Whose face is he still trying to rub it in? There is no longer anyone at TU that had anything to do with, or control over, his recruitment situation.

Green and Ramsdell have played against each other since well before high school and probably know each other's strengths and weaknesses better than any other two players on the court last night. The fact that Ramsdell got "love" from TU and Green didn't is the motivating factor for making the TU game so much fun for Green. I would venture a guess that there is much more satisfaction to Green that Ramsdell scored zero points than that he scored a double-double. Coaches and administrator come and go, but as long as Ramsdell is there to remind Green of TU's decision, I'm sure that the TU game will be special. As a TU fan, I wouldn't count on the outcome of this series being different in 2006, (although probably more competitive than last night).

[JoeyO]

Hold on basplayr. First of all, Caleb has never said that him smiling is his way of getting back at TU. So your argument about how he needs to move on doesn't make any sense. That assertion was made by someone on this board, not Caleb Green. Secondly, what is wrong with using something like that to motivate yourself? People use motivating factors like that all the time. TU may represent someone who didn't believe in him. Competitors are always trying to "get back" at people who don't believe in them. That is what makes Caleb such a good player -- the fact that he gets up for every game with intensity. I didn't interpret his smile as arrogance -- I interpreted it at someone who is playing and living to their fullest. And even if it were arrogant, I would be fine with someone who is using the fact that someone didn't believe in him as a motivating factor. Who cares that the people who didn't recruit him aren't there anymore -- TU represents a group that didn't believe in him.

[vcboy2000]

Aside from a few good points by Bas and Terry, THIS WHOLE THREAD IS A JOKE!

Bas, why are you wearing your feelings on your sleeve!?!?! Where on earth are you getting the notion that Caleb gets up for this game to get at TU for not recruiting him. Would he not play hard if he were playing for TU? Of course he would. Caleb plays hard in this game because it's our cross-town rival, and he grew up knowing first hand the lack of respect that ORU has received from the Tulsa community in past years and wants to maintain edge. Do you guys actually think he is taking it against TU because of the previous coaching staff? I don't. He just likes beating TU!

and what is this about Caleb realling wanting to go to TU and ORU fans having to deal?!?!?!?!? Dude, please lose your inferiority complex, NOW! Where has Caleb ever said that ORU was his second choice?

Personal opinions are always welcomed on message boards, but please don't post them as fact when you don't know what you are talking about.

[Dr. Cornelius]

First of all, Caleb has never said that him smiling is his way of getting back at TU.

Caleb can usually be seen laughing ANY time he plays. The recent games on ESPN or at MSU last year are good examples. I don't think he's doing it to show anybody up, he's just having fun. I don't think people ever faulted Magic Johnson or Waymon Tisdale for expressing their emotions in much the same way.

[tmh8286]

Point taken, vcb. It was really intended as sort of a joke. Guess it didn't turn out right.

But don't you think some of the personal stuff that I quoted form the TU board may serve as motivation to ORU players if they saw it? That's all I was trying to say. SHEESH!!

[BasPlayr]

VC, My post was in response to this post in this thread made by one of your fans.

maniac prez Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:23 am Post subject:

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that "smile" that you all are referring to is the "BEAT TU SMILE" that caleb gets every time that he has played them, I remember back to my freshmen year and he blew up on them, he just absolutely loves to beat them because when he came outta HS TU was legit, and they didn't even give him the time of day til late in his senior season, so he just loves rubbing it right back in their faces and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

I just was expressing my "feelings" that I hope maniac prez is wrong in that this is his motivating factor. I am hoping that Mr. Green is the bigger man and moves on from that. Being motivated because it is a crosstown rivalry is motivation enough.

If you are directing this:

and what is this about Caleb realling wanting to go to TU and ORU fans having to deal?!?!?!?!? Dude, please lose your inferiority complex, NOW! Where has Caleb ever said that ORU was his second choice?

at me, then you are WAAAAYYYYYY! of base with that one.

First off, I never said anything about that in my post.

Second, I have no clue whether TU or ORU was his first choice. I do know that TU was recruiting him and was told that he would not commit until the spring and our Former Coach decided to wait. The rest is history as ORU offered early and he is there now. The circumstances for his deciding to go to ORU is unknown to me so I cannot speak of them. But I can Fault the TU staff for not getting him to TU just as I can fault them for not getting several other players to TU. If ORU was his first choice, so be it. It doesn't change the fact that we would have loved to have him.

Here is something that we, both ORU & TU fans, might be overlooking. Who knows what would have happened if he had come to TU? With the staff that we had, how do we know that he would have had the same sort of career that he is having at ORU? If he had come to TU, do you really think that he would have had a similar support crew to what he has had at ORU? I don't. In hindsight, his coming to ORU is probably the best thing that he could have done.

Mabeej; Nothing in my post said that Mr. Green "said" anything.

If your going to attack me, then at least get all YOUR facts straight.

[JoeyO]

Basplayr, did you even read my post? You just proved the point I was making in my original post. Your whole post was based on an assumption that Caleb was smiling to rub it in TU's face. I was saying that he has never said that and that your argument is based on conjecture. Thank you for repeating what I said. You MUST have an inferiority complex if you think these are "attacks".

[ashVID]

Green always does that, it is his way of keeping loose, nothing to do with TU. Green owned Ramsdell in the OK All-star game and has ever since. It is a fact that TU was on him but did not commit because "he was not athletic enough" as one TU recruiter said. He was willing to sign then but TU wanted to "wait and see" then ORU swept in and snagged him up. Good for them. ORU was not his second choice as he was never given a choice to go to TU.

As for the things said on the TU board... I would like to say for the record that I corrected the most egregious talent evaluations, particularly those about MM, Owens and Tutt.

ash =o)