Guest EagleBackr Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Same questions as TU a few years back when Harrington left. Bottom line is that ORU is 3-0 with LSG right now. Have you guys forgotten that he was by far and away the best perimeter defender on your team? He also had ice-water in his veins and a heart the size of an elephant. How many FTs did he miss in the last 5 minutes? How many big shots? Assists? Steals? Defensive stops? The team is adjusting to life without LSG. DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!! Seriously, Ash, it's not that we miss LSG desperately - I mean, what did we win WITH him? How many Mid-Con championships? Zero. How many tournaments of any kind? Zero. How many NIT or NCAA games? Zero. What we're missing is good POINT guard play - FROM ANYONE! And we've been missing it FOR YEARS!! Tyrone Tiggs was a #2 guard! LSG was a natural #2 guard!! Jonathan Bluitt is a quick, undersized #2 guard! HALF OUR ROSTER IS #2 GUARDS!! And, what do you know, we have four #2 guards on the coaching staff! Coincidence? You guys decide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Most of the teams in D-1 are lacking a true point guard..... Bluitt is better than you give him credit for - especially given his lack of stature. It is just hard for him to do certain things at 5'9". He did not have that bad of a game against Marquette - 6 assists and 2 turnovers for a 3-to-1 TO ratio. Next year we will have a true point guard in Adam Liberty. He is 6'2", a good ball handler who can really distribute the ball..... but he will never be accused of being a 2 guard with his limited shooting ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Definition of a true point guard? It's REALLY simple - run the offense, take care of the ball, pass first, shoot later. Do LSG or Jonathan fit that definition? Rushing the offense, turning the ball over, attempting foolish passes and forcing your shots makes you an "anti-point". It's ironic that arguably the best point guard to play at ORU in the Self/Hinson/Sutton era was a walk-on discovered in the Subway shop across from Mabee Center (Earl the Pearl)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyO Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I am flabbergasted at the playing time Yemi has been getting. He is hurting our offense and is only marginal on defense. Can anyone tell me what he adds to our team? I hear that he is doing great in practice but it is obviously not carrying over into games. I could understand his lack of offense if he were grabbing tons of boards or if he were really a stopper on D but he is neither. He missed clutch free throws down the stretch against Utah State and failed to contribute against Marquette. Put Larry in at the four and put another three point shooter like Chris Riouse to take pressure off Ken. If Larry is in foul trouble or you want to put him at the three, I think Marchello would be 100 times better in the game. He is better on defense, he is a better rebounder, and he is as good or better on offense. I'm not seeing it with Yemi. It's like we're playing with 4.5 guys when he's out there. I don't mean to be negative but with the amount of talent we have this year, I would hate to see it wasted because of a bad rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Yemi appears to be 3rd & 4th in assists and steals. With his wing span, I think we need him. We certainly need to have defensive players incase Larry, Mickey & Caleb all foul out. It's too easy to flat out choke without game time experience. Mickey, Caleb & Larry seem to be the only players with much consistency during the tournament. Between the 10 & 5 minute mark of the second half I just wanted to turn off the radio and chill out watching a movie, but since I consider myself a die hard fan, I obviously wouldn't do that. Eagles pull out another one. Now we hope they are over the jet lag for St Greg's and TU. See you there....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyO Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I agree that we need him IN CASE those guys foul out. But, he is getting in and staying in beginning early in the game. I understand these guys are prone to foul but Marchello is seeing very little court action even though he is playing great when he gets in. The playing time Yemi is getting right now is unjustified. He is unproven and does not contribute enough to justify his playing time. In this case the bad outweighs the good. I do think it would be positive if we worked him in with 6-9 minutes a game to get him some exposure. As it stands we are underproducing on offense and he does not add enough on defense to justify his non-existent offense. ORU Mom, how many assists and steals is he averaging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Statistics after just four games are pretty meaningless - they are too skewed by just one good or bad performance. In response to your comments about Yemi, I'm going to "tease" a different topic, then use it in a new post: "Our starting lineup should change soon - and drastically" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 You know, the last few years we have peaked WAY too early and stumbled to the finish line. Yes, our outside shooting has been poor. Yes, some of the new and redshirt guys are struggling. And you know what, I thnik it's a GOOD THING. Let the coaches and players continue to work out the kinks and let's peak in February/March this season. You folks do realize that we are working in SEVERAL new players into the system that were not on the floor last year (Fowlkes, Ogunye, Vealy). This team is 2-2 against a pretty decent schedule thus far and have played pretty poorly.....PATIENCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone77 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Only thing to add to ORUTerry's comments is that we gave up 15 offensive boards. I don't think Tutt's problem is chronic, but we haven't anybody else step up in his absense. Turnovers and missed free throws are the cause of our 2 losses. Re starters: Caleb-yep. Tutt-yep. JB- yep. Mick - yep. In my book, that only leaves LO in doubt. But you mention big changes implying more than one change. Will look forward to your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyO Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I agree with you about the fact that stats are meaningless the first few games and that was the point I was trying to make. Yemi may have a few steals and assists but I don't think that being 3rd or 4th in either category is very significant. His impact is minimal and in my opinion, counterproductive. I know we are trying to work some guys into the system but are national spotlight games the best time to work in someone like Yemi? C'mon, we play St. Gregory next week! That sounds like a good time to work him in. How about against Northeastern State and Central Oklahoma? Isn't that what exhibition games are for? I don't think it's best to "work in" a player against Marquette. I'll be patient but I'd rather be patient with a better lineup. I look forward to some thoughts on the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAdder Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I miss Cameron Tragardh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I've missed him since he left. How crazy-good would we be with him in this lineup? He should have never left when he did. Poor career move, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashVID Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 LSG was a combo guard and Bluitt is a point guard, period endstop. Did you skip my point about defense? LSG, when healthy, SHUT DOWN anyone he guarded. He also hit a number of big shots. ORU is struggling to regain the AWESOME chemistry they had most of last year. Only natural after losing such an important player and having some new faces get minutes. It will come in time... ash =o) DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!! Seriously, Ash, it's not that we miss LSG desperately - I mean, what did we win WITH him? How many Mid-Con championships? Zero. How many tournaments of any kind? Zero. How many NIT or NCAA games? Zero. What we're missing is good POINT guard play - FROM ANYONE! And we've been missing it FOR YEARS!! Tyrone Tiggs was a #2 guard! LSG was a natural #2 guard!! Jonathan Bluitt is a quick, undersized #2 guard! HALF OUR ROSTER IS #2 GUARDS!! And, what do you know, we have four #2 guards on the coaching staff! Coincidence? You guys decide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Refresh my memory but was Spencer-Gardner less than 100% every time ORU played against Michael Watson (UMKC) during his career? Watson dropped some serious point totals on ORU during his time with the Roos and I just wondered how many of those points were while Spencer-Gardner was guarding him. I know, I know, EVERYONE LOVES "LUKE" ... and "JB" ... and they are both great guys and if I personally knew either of them I'm sure I would like them along with everyone else too. But taking from EB's post earlier in this thread, what has ORU ever won with Luke or JB leading the team in terms of a game we arguably shouldn't have won and/or it was a "pick 'em" type important game (i.e., no favorite either way)? I know Fowlkes started and played the point as ORU won AT Wichita State a couple of years ago which was and remains impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashVID Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 LSG may not have helped ORU win games they should not have won but he kept them from losing games they should not have lost. I am not saying ORU cant win without him, I am not saying they would be better with him... I am merely saying, they are still adjusting to being without him. ash =o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Ash, that sounds much better and I appreciate your clarification. I get your point, and there certainly may be something to that but teams lose players every year so given your thoughts every team every year will go through a similar "adjustment" period if/when they lose a player like LSG. Thanks and please know I do value and esteem your opinions on the ORU board as being fair balanced and spoken from an educated basketball fan's perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 LSG was a combo guard and Bluitt is a point guard, period endstop. Did you skip my point about defense? LSG, when healthy, SHUT DOWN anyone he guarded. He also hit a number of big shots. ORU is struggling to regain the AWESOME chemistry they had most of last year. Only natural after losing such an important player and having some new faces get minutes. It will come in time... ash =o) While I LOVE Luke and all he did at ORU, to say he "SHUT DOWN" anyone he guarded is not true. He had MUCH heart but got career highs dropped on him by Watson and several others (IUPUI kid and Centenary kid, can't remember names) Anyway, we do miss Luke but I think when Fowlkes gets back and gets back in the groove from missing last season. And, Ogunye and others get into the flow, we will be better off by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 ...since we're on the subject, one of the things I could never understand about LSG's defense was that he would so overplay his own man outside that he would leave the rest of the defense vulnerable. When a perimeter defensive player offside the ball doesn't sag but instead plays his man tight outside the 3-point line, that's bad team defense. It may look like it keeps that guy from getting the ball, but what danger is that man 25 feet away from the basket two passes away? Sag down a few steps, take in the whole court, help out the high post, and maybe get an offside steal or two! Chad Wilkerson was a master at that. And sometimes in that sitution, when LSG would try for a steal or just plain get beat on the drive, it left everybody else on an island defensively. The eventual basket might not come from his man, but it was that over-aggression that sometimes caused the defensive breakdown in the first place. I just think point guards should ALWAYS stay between their man and the basket and not take risky chances that undermine the entire team's defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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