ORUTerry Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Here is the link to the article. Sounds like they have improved their talent level. The reason I post this story is the reference Bill Haisten makes to Caleb Green: "The TU program was disfigured by the recruiting mistakes that occurred after Self left for Illinois in 2000. Caleb Green could have been a star at TU -- but he wasn't recruited by TU. Instead, he has had a spectacular career at Oral Roberts. Study the Golden Hurricane's post-Self rosters, and you see several recruits -- not two or three, but several -- whose ability was considerably overestimated." It is remarkable how much this sticks in the craw of TU..... http://www.tulsaworld.com/SportsStory.asp?ID=060717_Sp_B1_Newre2765_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU GRAD Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Haisten is like so many Tusla sports radio and Tulsa World announcers and writers that it makes me churn inside. The article also discussed the Hurricanes last three years of not being number uno in the city. It seems that they have so dominated in the past that ORU is not even of thought. What garbage! Haisten has them in the NIT and in the NCAA next year. My saying is TIME will TELL. I still feel our program is better and our coaching staff is solid. We are not going to become NUMBER 2 this year and I hope for years to come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 ...I thought it was a pretty solid article until it came to the predictions at the end. I don't know if I've ever seen a columnist in a major newspaper list bullet-point won-loss predictions for the next two years for ANY college team in ANY sport. Who knows anything for sure about these guys yet: how they'll play as a team, how they'll respond to Woz-His-Name, whether they can stay healthy, maintain their eligibility, etc.? You can call them TU's best recruiting class in years, because that sort of thing is measured by how they were ranked coming out of high school/prep school/junior college/etc. But to make the next leap about how they (or any recruiting class at any school) will pan out two years from now is frankly ridiculous. Prediction: TU will probably be better under Wo-Nelly than they were under John Phillips. Prediction: If TU turns things around, Wo-Chick will take the VERY FIRST better job that presents itself. Prediction: As long as Coach Sutton's staff remains intact, ORU will remain very competitive with TU and other mid-majors across the land, which ain't bad for a little ol' Bible college from Oklahoma. Prediction: Every year when the two teams play each other, regardless of how either team is doing that year or who is coaching them, the game will be a toss-up, favoring the home team slightly - AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST DECADE OR SO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I don't think it's hyperbole to say this is TU's best class in years. They could honestly be the highest touted ever actually... I never remember Self, Tubby, or Robinson snagging players away from the Big East or major metros like Houston. That said, what Backr says is true: being highly touted and showing the ability on the court are two different things (just ask Texas football until last year). About the Mayor's Cup; I think we know pretty well that talent doesn't always equal a win (Bihnam's 4-point play) but come this December we have a class that could go through their 4 years not only never losing to TU but never trailing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoState417 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 About the Mayor's Cup; I think we know pretty well that talent doesn't always equal a win (Bihnam's 4-point play) but come this December we have a class that could go through their 4 years not only never losing to TU but never trailing them. That was one of the most fun endings to a game iv ever been to. TU almost scored at the end too. You also have to mention that he had only 4 fingers, it makes it sound even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 A few points that I just HAD to get out... 1. Haisten is not popular with most TU fans. He BOTCHED coverage of TU sports for year or so, most notably with the coaching search. Everyone and their dog knew we were talking to Doherty, Wojcik, and Jankovich -- yet this guy was still writing about Nolan, even after he knew there was no way Nolan would be the coach. He just has an amazing ability to say the wrong thing at the wrong time. TU makes it to a bowl? Haisten: too bad, you don't have enough enough money to pay Kragthorpe. TU women have an unbelieveable basketball season? Haisten: say goodbye to your coach. TU's PA announcer gets hired away? Haisten: Haha, those dorks have a mid-major attitude with their support staff. (Well, I made te last one up.) I swear he picked against TU every game in football last year... maybe even when we played Rice. 2. This is nothing new for Haisten. He writes differently than other writers, choosing to make odd predictions and throw out somewhat odd facts. 3. Many TU fans are a little leary on the prediction. This class has talent, don't get me wrong -- we're definitely headed in a better direction. But to even begin to compare this class to the one with Harrington, KJ, Kurtz, Heard, and D-Mac is crazy-talk. That class, if they ranked classes after five years, was probably a Top 10 class. Heck, Kurtz was a freak for a school like TU to have -- with Ruffin, we had two of the best big men in the country. This one is fine, but not in the same league. Perhaps Haisten is setting us up so he can rip us again? "See folks -- my prediction was wrong. TU isa letdown because they only won 16 games this year and lost in the FIRST round of the NIT." Just you wait... 4. A few of you are very right to point out that many recruits don't pan out. Some of our best recruits ever never played. Want to know who our most heralded player in the aformentioned '98 class was? DeAngelo McDaniel. The next year, our biggest recruit might have been Demario Hooper. Neither have jerseys hanging from the rafters... but others who were under the radar, like KJ, were pretty darn good players. 5. Most TU fans are SO over the Caleb Green thing. Heck, most don't even talk about JP anymore. Those days are compartmentalized with Keith Burns, Nathan Doudney, and Buzz Peterson (although Buzz's wife will always be fair game on the TU board). You got a great player, we blew it, got duped, hired the wrong coach, and wasted an opportunity... yet still outdrew you most nights last year, whether the powers that be want to admit it or not. 6. As far as being upset about folks hyping TU before the first tipoff, and I sense a little of this, remember something: many of the same folks on this board had hyped Caleb Green before he ever played a minute of D1 ball. I vividly remember TV commercials for ORU basketball, with the bizarre Marxist/"Working Class" theme, during the summer BEFORE his freshman year... in other words, the school was hyping him. I wouldn't hold my breath about seeing Ben Uzoh and Jamel McLean in a TV spot anytime soon. Back to the salt mines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 A few points that I just HAD to get out... 1. Haisten is not popular with most TU fans. He BOTCHED coverage of TU sports for year or so, most notably with the coaching search. Everyone and their dog knew we were talking to Doherty, Wojcik, and Jankovich -- yet this guy was still writing about Nolan, even after he knew there was no way Nolan would be the coach. He just has an amazing ability to say the wrong thing at the wrong time. TU makes it to a bowl? Haisten: too bad, you don't have enough enough money to pay Kragthorpe. TU women have an unbelieveable basketball season? Haisten: say goodbye to your coach. TU's PA announcer gets hired away? Haisten: Haha, those dorks have a mid-major attitude with their support staff. (Well, I made te last one up.) I swear he picked against TU every game in football last year... maybe even when we played Rice. 2. This is nothing new for Haisten. He writes differently than other writers, choosing to make odd predictions and throw out somewhat odd facts. 3. Many TU fans are a little leary on the prediction. This class has talent, don't get me wrong -- we're definitely headed in a better direction. But to even begin to compare this class to the one with Harrington, KJ, Kurtz, Heard, and D-Mac is crazy-talk. That class, if they ranked classes after five years, was probably a Top 10 class. Heck, Kurtz was a freak for a school like TU to have -- with Ruffin, we had two of the best big men in the country. This one is fine, but not in the same league. Perhaps Haisten is setting us up so he can rip us again? "See folks -- my prediction was wrong. TU isa letdown because they only won 16 games this year and lost in the FIRST round of the NIT." Just you wait... 4. A few of you are very right to point out that many recruits don't pan out. Some of our best recruits ever never played. Want to know who our most heralded player in the aformentioned '98 class was? DeAngelo McDaniel. The next year, our biggest recruit might have been Demario Hooper. Neither have jerseys hanging from the rafters... but others who were under the radar, like KJ, were pretty darn good players. 5. Most TU fans are SO over the Caleb Green thing. Heck, most don't even talk about JP anymore. Those days are compartmentalized with Keith Burns, Nathan Doudney, and Buzz Peterson (although Buzz's wife will always be fair game on the TU board). You got a great player, we blew it, got duped, hired the wrong coach, and wasted an opportunity... yet still outdrew you most nights last year, whether the powers that be want to admit it or not. 6. As far as being upset about folks hyping TU before the first tipoff, and I sense a little of this, remember something: many of the same folks on this board had hyped Caleb Green before he ever played a minute of D1 ball. I vividly remember TV commercials for ORU basketball, with the bizarre Marxist/"Working Class" theme, during the summer BEFORE his freshman year... in other words, the school was hyping him. I wouldn't hold my breath about seeing Ben Uzoh and Jamel McLean in a TV spot anytime soon. Back to the salt mines... A few points I just HAD to make regarding this bizarre post: ...on second thought, who really gives a rip what a delusional TU fan thinks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 If I'm delusional, what are you, "Punching Bag?" Why the hate? Is that what you do when you have NOTHING to argue with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blevins Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 One thing that always rubs us wrong over here is that we never get credit for RECRUITING Caleb. It's always how TU failed to recruit him or ignored him. The media portrays it as if Caleb came across town and begged us to take him. That's just not the case. Scott and his staff deserve a lot of credit, becuase Caleb did have other offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blevins Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 You got a great player, we blew it, got duped, hired the wrong coach, and wasted an opportunity... yet still outdrew you most nights last year, whether the powers that be want to admit it or not. Huh? ORU averaged 6,276 fans in 12 games in '05-06 TU averaged 5,862 in 13 games in '05-06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Back to the salt mines... Huh? ORU averaged 6,276 fans in 12 games in '05-06 TU averaged 5,862 in 13 games in '05-06 Maybe all the salt is getting to you, Gold ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I said "most nights." I went to every TU game and watched a few ORU games on TV (and talked to folks who were at ORU games). There were a lot of nights that TU had way more folks in the stands. I think those attendance figures are done using "new math." TU certainly bases their figures off "tickets sold," but I wonder what ORU does... given how y'all sell tickets door to door and such. Look, this is probably my weakest "observation" -- it just comes from watching a lot of basketball and seeing a bunch of marigold color seats at ORU games (perhaps they are fans DRESSED as marigold seats). Just trying to liven up your board. I'm suprised no one reacted to the observation regarding the Caleb Green ads before he ever played a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Maybe all the salt is getting to you, Gold ... Salt? I like salt. It looks like the oddly optimistic press about TU hoops got under the craw of some of your fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Exactly what is wrong with selling tickets door to door? I've never heard of it before (aside from your comment) but I don't see anything all that strange about it. Tickets sold are tickets sold. I'm also not sure how you can criticize our selling and attendance practices when for 12+ years all that was needed to enter Skelly Stadium was a canned food item or membership in a Boy Scout troop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I said "most nights." I went to every TU game and watched a few ORU games on TV (and talked to folks who were at ORU games). There were a lot of nights that TU had way more folks in the stands. I think those attendance figures are done using "new math." TU certainly bases their figures off "tickets sold," but I wonder what ORU does... given how y'all sell tickets door to door and such. Look, this is probably my weakest "observation" -- it just comes from watching a lot of basketball and seeing a bunch of marigold color seats at ORU games (perhaps they are fans DRESSED as marigold seats). Just trying to liven up your board. When compared to actual fact, looks like your "observation" is a complete stretch at best. (FYI, empty seats doesn't equal fewer fans when the Mabee Center has 2,220 more seats than the Reyonlds Center.) And since we all know that every school inflates home numbers, I can guarantee you that TU did not average 5,862 "tickets sold" per home game. (Apologies for the table being so messy. Things didn't copy and paste well from Word.) Tulsa Opponent Date Result Attendance S.F. AUSTIN 11/19 Lost, 72-82 4536 TEXAS A&M-CC 11/26 Won, 73-67 5543 OKLAHOMA 11/30 Lost, 53-62 8555 SOUTHERN ARK. 12/11 Won, 56-51 4861 SOUTHERN 12/19 Won, 60-48 4770 NORTH TEXAS 1/2 Lost, 61-67 5412 * SOUTHERN MISS 1/14 Won, 72-63 7217 * MARSHALL 1/18 Won, 66-57 5619 * MEMPHIS 2/1 Lost, 61-84 6740 * UTEP 2/4 Lost, 62-69 5902 * RICE 2/11 Won, 80-73 OT 5707 * SMU 2/22 Won, 73-56 5525 * TULANE 3/4 Won, 63-59 5824 ORU Opponent Date Result Attendance UTAH STATE 11/19 Lost, 67-72 OT 6941 ST. GREGORY'S 11/29 Won, 90-52 4721 TULSA 12/3 Won, 68-52 8756 MISSOURI STATE 12/7 Lost, 76-88 4671 * WESTERN ILL. 1/7 Won, 83-66 4361 * IUPUI 1/14 Won, 86-76 6871 * OAKLAND 1/19 Won, 74-63 6018 * CENTENARY 1/26 Won, 74-53 5027 * S.UTAH 2/2 Won, 89-57 5929 * CHICAGO ST. 2/4 Won, 69-58 7492 * UMKC 2/16 Won, 86-79 6017 * VALPARAISO 2/25 Won, 87-78 8514 Comparison: High attendance: TU 8,555 vs OU; ORU 8,756 vs TU Low attendance: TU 4,536 vs S.F. Austin; ORU 4,361 vs. Western Illinois Avg. in conference games: TU 5,045; ORU 6,278 Largest attendance in conference game: TU 7,217 vs. S. Miss.; ORU 8,514 vs. Valpo Avg. attendance on nights when both teams played at home ? TU 5,885; ORU 7,101 Games with attendance less than 5,000 ? TU 3; ORU 3 Games with attendance between 5,000 and 5,999 ? TU 7; ORU 2 Games with attendance between 6,000 and 6,999 ? TU 1; ORU 4 Games with attendance between 7,000 and 7,999 ? TU 1; ORU 1 Games with attendance over 8,000 ? TU 1; ORU 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 When compared to actual fact, looks like your "observation" is a complete stretch at best. (FYI, empty seats doesn't equal fewer fans when the Mabee Center has 2,220 more seats than the Reyonlds Center.) And since we all know that every school inflates home numbers, I can guarantee you that TU did not average 5,862 "tickets sold" per home game. (Apologies for the table being so messy. Things didn't copy and paste well from Word.) Tulsa Opponent Date Result Attendance S.F. AUSTIN 11/19 Lost, 72-82 4536 TEXAS A&M-CC 11/26 Won, 73-67 5543 OKLAHOMA 11/30 Lost, 53-62 8555 SOUTHERN ARK. 12/11 Won, 56-51 4861 SOUTHERN 12/19 Won, 60-48 4770 NORTH TEXAS 1/2 Lost, 61-67 5412 * SOUTHERN MISS 1/14 Won, 72-63 7217 * MARSHALL 1/18 Won, 66-57 5619 * MEMPHIS 2/1 Lost, 61-84 6740 * UTEP 2/4 Lost, 62-69 5902 * RICE 2/11 Won, 80-73 OT 5707 * SMU 2/22 Won, 73-56 5525 * TULANE 3/4 Won, 63-59 5824 ORU Opponent Date Result Attendance UTAH STATE 11/19 Lost, 67-72 OT 6941 ST. GREGORY'S 11/29 Won, 90-52 4721 TULSA 12/3 Won, 68-52 8756 MISSOURI STATE 12/7 Lost, 76-88 4671 * WESTERN ILL. 1/7 Won, 83-66 4361 * IUPUI 1/14 Won, 86-76 6871 * OAKLAND 1/19 Won, 74-63 6018 * CENTENARY 1/26 Won, 74-53 5027 * S.UTAH 2/2 Won, 89-57 5929 * CHICAGO ST. 2/4 Won, 69-58 7492 * UMKC 2/16 Won, 86-79 6017 * VALPARAISO 2/25 Won, 87-78 8514 Comparison: High attendance: TU 8,555 vs OU; ORU 8,756 vs TU Low attendance: TU 4,536 vs S.F. Austin; ORU 4,361 vs. Western Illinois Avg. in conference games: TU 5,045; ORU 6,278 Largest attendance in conference game: TU 7,217 vs. S. Miss.; ORU 8,514 vs. Valpo Avg. attendance on nights when both teams played at home ? TU 5,885; ORU 7,101 Games with attendance less than 5,000 ? TU 3; ORU 3 Games with attendance between 5,000 and 5,999 ? TU 7; ORU 2 Games with attendance between 6,000 and 6,999 ? TU 1; ORU 4 Games with attendance between 7,000 and 7,999 ? TU 1; ORU 1 Games with attendance over 8,000 ? TU 1; ORU 2 I'll concede those are the reported numbers and that TU has a whole lot of corporate seats that no one ever uses -- there were two rows last year in the high dollar area that were never used at all. Heck, we resorted to doing really cheesy halftime shows where hundreds of grammar school aged girls performed "cheerleading" routines at the half, so we could get their parents, siblings, and extended families to games, buying tickets and so forth. It's just my observation. You don't see the upper deck of the Mabee Center when you watch games on tv, unless it's a camera angle from the baseline. My observation was from lower level seats. A lot of nights, TU had more fans in the stands. Again, it was my weakest argument and is based on my completely un-scientific observation. That said, y'all must have a lot of fans that look like marigold color seats. Mabee Center is bigger, but not that much bigger from the camera angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Exactly what is wrong with selling tickets door to door? I've never heard of it before (aside from your comment) but I don't see anything all that strange about it. Tickets sold are tickets sold. I'm also not sure how you can criticize our selling and attendance practices when for 12+ years all that was needed to enter Skelly Stadium was a canned food item or membership in a Boy Scout troop. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Hey, TU used a cheese wrapper promotion for football. Those who live in "erector sets" shouldn't throw stones, or something like that. I'm just pointing out something that gets under the skin of many ORU fans. The point wasn't essential to my argument. But it does raise another interesting point -- if ORU has such a talented team, why can't the product just sell itself? Y'all have a very talented AD, especially when it comes to "hype." But is all that hype really bringing home the bacon... er, cheese wrappers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Just trying to liven up your board. Man! My internet connection goes down for a day and look at all the fun I've been missing! Thank you, Gold*, for livening up our board for us. I think a few benign comments from one of ORU's more outspoken critics is better than no activity at all!! You even brought the slumbering Eaglebackr out of hibernation! Please, feel free to push our button any time! One other thing - it may come as a surprise to you, Gold*, that ORU sells quite a few corporate seats as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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