tmh8286 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 as for the golden bird going to another league - has to be another league that wants you. This line made me think you were from another school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReallyBigORUFan Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Well, I guess if you can't beat 'em, go where you have a chance of getting an At-Large bid and maybe sneak in. Outside of a couple of women's sports, Valpo didn't have any chance of winning any Mid-Con championships in the near future and probably figures that they might get a third or fourth spot to a post season tournament somewhere. That's definitely where the money is. Good luck to Valpo. I hope it works out better for Valpo than it has for Youngstown State. At least YSU has state money to fall back on with their athletic department; if VU doesn't make a good showing, the League dues will eat up any NCAA shares. The travel savings will be eaten up by the facility upgrades that will be necessary to compete. If you can't keep up in the Mid-Con, you definitely won't keep up in the Horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 i found the last post puzzling. when ysu went to the horizon - it was, and quite franky still is, a fairly poor program. minimal success in the mid-con, and minimal success in the horizon. dont believe valpo will need many facility improvements, if any to be competitive (is not to say they should not pursue that). at the mid-major level, top teams in one league should be fairly competitive with top teams in another league. difference tends to be in how deep a league is. horizon has been deep than the mid-con. no different than if oru went to, oh lets say the mvc or the horizon, would expect us to be competitive and challenge for titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Have you seen Valpo's baseball field? They will definitely have to make changes there. The ARC will be the smallest arena in the Horizon. Good move for Valpo.... they will go through a transition period but can develop natural rivalries with Butler and other schools in the league. The irony is that the Horizon League is the former Midwestern Cities Conference - the first conference ORU joined in the early 1980's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlh Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Most of the members of the Horizon are the original members of the Mid-Con who defected over a weekend several years ago. We have a history with UIC, UWGB, Wright State, Cleveland State, UW-Milwaukee, and Youngstown State. I don't think we'll be overwhelmed on any level and actually will be more competitive in some sports (think baseball). As far as facilities, a new track is being planned and money collected as we speak and the baseball field has already be updated some, but more is planned in the future. Other than that our facilities are just about as good as most ot he Horizon league, although the ARC is smaller than the rest. A shocking move and I personally will miss all my friends in Tulsa. It has been a great rivalry that has developed, and it's too bad it may end soon. We;ll see....maybe we will continue to play, but it won't be the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReallyBigORUFan Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 i found the last post puzzling. when ysu went to the horizon - it was, and quite franky still is, a fairly poor program. minimal success in the mid-con, and minimal success in the horizon. dont believe valpo will need many facility improvements, if any to be competitive (is not to say they should not pursue that). at the mid-major level, top teams in one league should be fairly competitive with top teams in another league. difference tends to be in how deep a league is. horizon has been deep than the mid-con. no different than if oru went to, oh lets say the mvc or the horizon, would expect us to be competitive and challenge for titles. Didn't mean to be puzzling...just don't think that Valpo is at the mid-major level yet. Outside of a couple of women's sports, they don't win many conference titles. They compete well as a low-major, but not at a mid-major level, much like YSU. If Valpo can get into some NCAA competitions as an At-Large bid by being a 3rd or 4th place Horizon team, then Valpo will be better off than being in the middle of the Mid-Con pack because, as we all know, no middle-of-the-pack Mid-Con team will ever get to the NCAAs. This is the best opportunity for Valpo to make an impact to improve their facilities that DO need to improve if they are going to compete with some of the schools of the Horizon that they will be going head-to-head with - not only on the court, but for the same kids in the same conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Valpo was usually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in men's basketball RPI. There are no current options for addition to the Mid-Con that will match their quality in men's basketball. As a result, this will hurt the overall RPI of the conference, and hurt our opportunity to get better than a 16-seed in the tournament. On the positive side, it will definitely improve our opportunity to win the mid-con basketball tournament on a regular basis if IUPUI and UMKC are the toughest teams left in the conference. I don't think the Missouri Valley will have an interest in ORU unless they lose a member to another conference. But if something like that were to happen, then our recent success in men's basketball and baseball would have to improve our chance for consideration. Besides the Mid-Con, (and the MVC), the Southland and Sun-Belt would be the only 2 other conferences that would make regional sense. The Southland is no better than the Mid-Con from a competitive standpoint, and they didn't want us anyway about 10 years ago. However, if the Mid-Con did fall apart in the next few years, the Sun-Belt would probably be a good option, and I would think the interest would be mutual. The Sun-Belt would even be a small step-up in quality, but the travel would still be somewhat difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Congrats to Valpo on the move. Better athletic conference will also bring institutional growth as well. I wish you all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cornelius Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think the silver lining in all of this is that ValpoRick is now Cleveland St.'s problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyb Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I don't think we'll be overwhelmed on any level and actually will be more competitive in some sports (think baseball). Can you please explain how you'll be better in baseball?? Don't get me wrong, it's a great move for Valpo to join the Horizon, but right now the Valpo baseball team has an RPI of 283 (out of 293) and it's definitely not that low solely due to Mid-Con competition. You're 5-20 against non-league DI competition. Just curious where you're line of thought is coming from . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Dr. C, I was thinking the same thing! Mick, I think he is saying that the Horizon league is not that great in baseball. (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlh Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 We cannot compete with ORU on the baseball diamond...and neither can anyone else in the conference. You enjoy the same success in baseball as we once enjoyed in basketball...and that's not going to change. The Horizon League does not have an ORU in baseball, therefore I would think we would be more competitive than at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titansoccer8 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 And we all thought ORU's RPI was bad in the past! We will forever struggle to keep it below 150. I agree that Valpo arguably was the biggest name in the conference and significantly responsible for elevating our RPI to near respectable levels... ORU needs to start thinking about themselves! We must move to the Sun Belt or the Southland...prefer Sun Belt because the Southland is loaded with junk. Adding IPFW or the Dakota schools will only make the conference more geographically dispersed and less attractive. It just boggles my mind that some conferences continue to hold grudges toward ORU or view ORU with a bad-eye. I would argue that ORU's purpose and principles are far less offensive than BYU's. Perhaps Richard should extend the marketing/branding make-over to the Athletic Department and help us convince the other conferences that ORU is a very respectable program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 The Southland appears to be set at 12 teams.... Louisiana-Monroe is leaving to enter the Sun Belt while the University of Central Arkansas and Texas A&M - Corpus Christi are coming into the conference. They currently have 11 team.... less one and then add two. I repeat, how in the world did we (Mid-Con) not extend an invitation to Texas A&M-Corpus Christi? The Southland is a Texas-Louisiana league full of directional or no name schools..... kinda like the Mid-Con. Rather be in the Sun Belt - or the Missouri Valley (which I don't think is possible in the short term). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Marshall Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 We cannot compete with ORU on the baseball diamond...and neither can anyone else in the conference. You enjoy the same success in baseball as we once enjoyed in basketball...and that's not going to change. The Horizon League does not have an ORU in baseball, therefore I would think we would be more competitive than at present. First of all, congrats and hats off to Valparaiso University. What a fantastic opportunity for your athletics department. It's a natural, perfect fit for VU. Secondly, you're right, Valpo will actually have an opportunity to be competitive in baseball, but to me it's sad to see one of the Mid Con's best basketball schools to be leaving the league. It's really nothing ORU fans can hold against VU, because frankly if ORU had the opportunity to join the Missouri Valley Conference, the Golden Eagles would leave too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I agree Rob.... it is a great fit for Valpo - can't blame them at all for leaving. I'm curious what your thoughts are in terms of strategy: leave or stay? If we try to leave, would anyone have us? Do we concentrate on the Sun Belt? If we stay, which teams (and how many) would you invite into the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlh Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 One thing to consider that everyone seems to have overlooked....according to the Horizon commissioner and the VU administration, the Horizon League called Valpo, not the other way around. To my knowledge, VU has never contacted the Horizon about leaving the Mid-Con. That's what makes it so intriguing to me...also, this all happened in a very short period of time. The call came within the last week and the conference itself only made the decision within the last 60 days....at least that's what was announced at the news conference... My point is, that begging to move conferences might be fruitless (see IPFW). YOu might have to wait for someone to decide they want you. I'd love for ORU to come with us to the Horizon, but that's not practical. I'll really miss visiting Tulsa. I've always enjoyed it. We'll have to make this years visit a big blowout..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I don't think anyone is blaming Valpo for changing leagues. I know reports say that the Horizon approached them, but I wouldn't care if it were the other way around. Switching to a more competitive conference is an excellent move in the right direction for the long-term success of their athletic program. It doesn't matter how it's done. Titan Soccer, the marketing firm that is currently responsible for the university face lift proposed changes to our mascot and athletic logo. The word was that Mike Carter liked none of the designs or changes that they proposed. This was despite other reports I heard from VPs that they liked the new designs. I wonder if Mike's distaste had to do with all the hard work he and his staff have placed into marketing Eli and giving the ORU logo a family-oriented theme. Choosing a new design, no matter how cool, would mean starting all of that hard work over, and could even portray a lack of stability or identity in the athletic department since this would be the 3rd mascot change in a lil over 50 years. Personally I thought it would really represent the positive changes that we have made as a university and athletic department in quality of athletes, coaches, and facilities. The Titan for me is always a reminder of the powerhouse years of ORU athletics. Those were the times when our Tennis, Golf, Track, Baseball, and Basketball teams where consistently on the national stage in competition. A new Golden Eagle design could signify this return. Or maybe not. Maybe we just need to switch conferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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