The Sound of Signing Day

[vcboy2000]

I love how TU fans come over to our board and talk about the glory days of old when they had players that could supposedly school Caleb and Ken. Truth be told, Pond, if you go back far enough in TU's 'glory days' you will see that ORU is the one that started the schooling between the universities here in Tulsa. Our best players in program history (including our run to the Elite Eight) would destroy TU's best 9 out of 10 times. So why don't you go ahead and let us enjoy our current success, and we'll let you keep reminiscing about the days of old.

[MadAdder]

Yeah, I think it's funny how one school is always talking about how great the past was, while the other school is talking about the present and the future.

[orumom]

Tutt barely can touch the rim.

I have some bad news for TU fans. Tutt actually dunked the ball a couple weeks ago. My source says he has worked very hard in the early offseason. Watch out for Ken next year everyone. He has really worked on becoming more athletic. The foot surgery may have fixed something that could have been there the entire time.

[ORU Eli]

haha...your 'source'...can he still fall under the category of source considering you used to change his diapers and feed him fruity pebbles? =)

[orumom]

haha...your 'source'...can he still fall under the category of source considering you used to change his diapers and feed him fruity pebbles? =)

Just being funny... I figure the TU posters don't know who I am or my son.

[ORU Eli]

i know, just joshin' ya

[Guest EagleBackr]

...for whatever reason, I thought Ken played better after he came back from the injury than he did at ANYTIME this year OR his sophomore season - just looked GREAT. Glad to hear he's working hard this summer. Here's the question: can Ken and Caleb EACH average 20 points a game next season? How cool would that be?!?

[praetorfenix86]

That would be absolutely amazing. No team had to guys who each averaged 20 ppg this year, but I think Ken and Caleb could do it. At the beginning of the season we will definitely be relying on their offense and leadership completely, and they could build up some huge numbers.

[vcboy2000]

I don't think we want both to average over 20 pts. I could understand Caleb averaging more than 20 pts. But what happens if Ken has a really off night or gets hurt again? The defense would suffocate Caleb until the rest of our guys adjusted. Duke is a good example of this. Every game they lost this year JJ Reddick had a poor shooting night. That's what happens when your offense relys on 1 or 2 guys.

[Guest EagleBackr]

I don't think we want both to average over 20 pts. I could understand Caleb averaging more than 20 pts. But what happens if Ken has a really off night or gets hurt again? The defense would suffocate Caleb until the rest of our guys adjusted. Duke is a good example of this. Every game they lost this year JJ Reddick had a poor shooting night. That's what happens when your offense relys on 1 or 2 guys.

I'm not saying we have to rely on just the two of them - after all, that's just 40 points between them a game. We need 30-40 points from somewhere else each night. I'm just saying both of them are going to be capable of dropping ON AVERAGE 20 points a night, every night. In reality, that will be 12-15 points a night for one of them, and 25-28 points a night for the other one, depending on what the defense gives each game. I think it's VERY feasible, for the reason you listed: no "night in, night out" 10-points-a-game guy like Larry Owens was this year (my money for that guy next year is on King, but we'll see...)

[ORUTerry]

The interesting thing to look for next year is how the team chemistry works out. Adding five new players - as well as three red-shirt players - will create a new dynamic on the team. That is essentially eight (!) new players, three of which have practiced with the team but have not played in a game. Who will be the leaders on the court and in the locker room. Last year, that was JB and maybe Mickey & Larry. The team will have to deal with intangible in addition to whatever talent is on the court.

It will be fun to see who wins the contest for the open slot as small foward.... the other positions (except for maybe center - Sean King is still a bit of an unknown) seem to be locked up. Lots of competition for that open slot (Vealy, Ogunoye, Hazell, Sango, Ehambe, etc.)

[Gold*]

See, Ghould*, this is where you lose even more credibility. Basically, you're going to defend dear ol' TU no matter WHAT they do - or DON'T do! If I'm not mistaken, none of those April 2005 signees contributed much last year, and one of them (Ashton Hall?) quit the team in the middle of the season. Time will tell, but it's obvious Coach Wo hasn't signed a Brandon Rush or Kevin Bookout or JamesOn Curry type who can be a huge impact guy right away, or even a Caleb Green/Ken Tutt who can start right away and make all-conference. And other than McLean, you haven't signed near enough good players the past two years to rival Marchello Vealy and Adam Liberty and Jeremy Hazell and Shawn King and Kelvin Sango on the ORU side. Just one decent guy in two years ain't gonna cut it! But don't worry - there's still time for our assistant coaches to trick your staff into signing some lousy players soon!! (inside joke from the TU message board...)

Again, check your facts.

There were six late signees last year: Mitchell, Reese, Crow, Earls, Coleman, and Wheatly. Mitchell started for us half the year, Reese was hurt put played quite a bit, Crow started all season. Wheatly came on strong the last couple of months and Earls was red-shirted with a foot injury. Coleman redshirted after opting for TU over prep school and potential offers from the Big East and ACC, IIRC.

Hall was a JP signee in November of '04.

Reese is gonna be a heckuva player and y'all wanted Mitchell. Earls should start for us next year and will likely be a Wallace type (solid defender and ball handler), only with more scoring.

You have a point that many TU fans are anxious -- we lost a point guard to Berkley last fall and many were angry -- but, like I've said in other places, there are subtle hints that indicate we'll get a couple of other good ones here pretty quick.

One more point before I go -- no one could sign players this past weekend, as far as I understand, because it was a dead period. So, players were either going to sign around the time y'all signed Sango or this coming weekend. Same story all over the country. Lots of good programs are looking for a player or two.

[Gold*]

Gold, sure you signed a bunch of players last April, and sure, you are going to sign a bunch this April, but guess what, last year's class wasn't any good, and this years won't be either! If you don't have them ready to sign on the first few days of the signing period, you aren't going to get much quality. But Gold, if you don't want to believe me, here's an example for you... Look back to your squad this year... Do you remember them?? They stunk, and they were all signed in April... Now what did you say about signing guys in April??

Our entire team was not signed in April. Seems like our best scorer, McDade, signed three years ago and that Ramsdell signed around the same time. Wallace and Price signed the year before that. I think those four lead us in minutes.

I disagree regarding the quality. One reliable indicator of a player available this late are the schools that have offered him. For example, we're after a point guard out of Texas and competing with Wichita State and Creighton, and possibly Virginia, for him. None of those are programs to scoff at. Another example is that players like Darrell Arthur are still available. We've recruited a forward out of Toronto along with Cincinatti, Nevada, and Iowa and passed on him -- he's visiting the other places.

Are many good players gone? Yes. But have all good players signed? No.

TU chose two guys they wanted last summer and made a full court press to get them -- they got one. I think the plan all along was to look at what our needs were and fill up the remaining scholarships accordingly.

We had a young team. Of the players that you seem to think are bad, only one -- Crow -- could have been expected to do much last year. He was also recruited by Tennessee and had a decent year, although really let us down in the CUSA tourney. We also recruited a JUCO point guard that broke his foot the night before our first game and redshirted.

I'll take our recruiting class this year against your class this year, no question.

[Gold*]

I have some bad news for TU fans. Tutt actually dunked the ball a couple weeks ago. My source says he has worked very hard in the early offseason. Watch out for Ken next year everyone. He has really worked on becoming more athletic. The foot surgery may have fixed something that could have been there the entire time.

How is that bad news for TU fans? You only get two points for a dunk. I hope that guy tries to dunk on us and quits launcing the threes.

But, cool for you.

[maniac prez]

Gold, you are halarious! Have your class this year, you've got to be kidding me! And talking about your guys that have been on campus for years, I wasn't referring to them when I was talking about last years team. I was talking about your recruiting class, not the whole team. Your recruiting class was all signed in April, and they did absolutely nothing! Some started some games, but they didn't do anything to make you guys better. Your older guys aren't any good, and none of your younger guys were good enough to come in and make a serious impact like Tutt and Green did their freshmen years. You can have your recruiting class, you guys are still going to be terrible, while our recruits are going to step into starting roles and make major impacts on a team that is going to win their conference and go to the NCAA tourney for the 2nd straight year!

[Gold*]

Gold, you are halarious! Have your class this year, you've got to be kidding me! And talking about your guys that have been on campus for years, I wasn't referring to them when I was talking about last years team. I was talking about your recruiting class, not the whole team. Your recruiting class was all signed in April, and they did absolutely nothing! Some started some games, but they didn't do anything to make you guys better. Your older guys aren't any good, and none of your younger guys were good enough to come in and make a serious impact like Tutt and Green did their freshmen years. You can have your recruiting class, you guys are still going to be terrible, while our recruits are going to step into starting roles and make major impacts on a team that is going to win their conference and go to the NCAA tourney for the 2nd straight year!

The word is "hilarious." Normally I'd write that off as a typo, but the "I" is a long way from the "A" on the keyboard.

You did in fact say that our team was made up of players signed in April -- that was not the case.

In fact, while all the new players that contributed for TU signed late (April through June), we actually had three November signees that year. One never made it to campus, one went to JUCO with what were believed to be grade issues, and another is rumored to be transferring. That said, your claim is wrong because our entire recruiting class wasn't signed in April.

McDade became a good player last year. He played better against Memphis than any of your guards, that's for sure. Ramsdell is a nice complimentary player. I think Reese is a Marcus Hill clone in the making (less of a point guard and more of a banger, yet just as quick) and Mitchell will be a solid player.

I'll be the first to admit that we have a ways to go. But making projections based on unproven players demonstrates very much the same degree of hubris that got some many TU fans in trouble a few years back. Who knows what will happen? That's why we get room to argue and poke fun at each other. From time to time, though, it helps to know the facts.

Then again, as Colbert says, "The facts may change but my opinion doesn't."

[ORUJason]

Reese, Crow, and Earls will all be solid players for TU next year, but neither Mitchell or Ramsdell will be significant scoring threats.

They will provide defense and rebounding, but TU will still be a player or two away from a really solid lineup, and without a lot of quality depth.

That is why I think many TU fans were anticipating a couple big signings from Wojcik that could make TU really competitive. Maybe those signings will come, or maybe they will have to settle.

I do think Wojcik is a decent coach, but TU will probably be one more year away from turning things around.

I'm not sure how many scolarships TU has available, but what's left of this recruiting season will be crucial for their future.

On a similar note, ORU will be more athletic and taller at the guard position, so we could be better next year than we were this year, but our biggest need will be a stud forward who can carry the team once Caleb is gone.

I'm sure many Mid-Con teams (as well as some TU fans) will be waiting for the 2007-2008 season when Caleb and Ken will be gone.

I hope by then we will have the horses to keep our recent success going.

[Guest EagleBackr]

I'll take our recruiting class this year against your class this year, no question.

...I'm gonna print this out, put it in a little time capsule, bury it in my back yard right next to my kids' dead hamster, and then dig it up in 18 months to compare how our recruiting class this year stacks up against TU's from this year. Just as soon as I empty the time capsule of all the hyperbole I clipped out and buried a few years back about how Gonzo, Tiechman, Price, etc. were going to get John Phillips and TU back to the Sweet Sixteen again! Keep dreaming, Ghould* - keep dreaming!

P.S. If your returning players are so promising, why is all the talk on your message board currently centered around the rumor that two players' scholarships will not be renewed for next season for the sole reason of bringing in better players? And why can't you guys STILL not sign any of the best metro high school players (Sidorakas being the latest one to slip through your proverbial fingers). Remember Eric Coley? Marcus Hill? Shea Seals? Pooh Williamson? The Rahilly brothers? (and don't trot Bartlesville's Mitchell out again: the main reason he didn't sign with us is because we would have red-shirted him - he knew he could play right away with your "team".) What does it tell you that better local players are now REGULARLY signing with ORU instead of TU?