ORU GRAD Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks SOLO . You are absolutly right. We have some great recruits coming in next year and some super players coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 And I look forward to seeing them play and cheering their efforts. No matter who is coaching them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There are some classy folks over there (11th & Harvard) that are very cordial and respectful towards our athletic teams and our University. There are a LOT of folks that aren't. GRAD expressed exactly where my frustrations lie after reading their thread. they hate for the most part our name and what we stand for! Yet they want what we have. Mind boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManiacAlum Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Sean maybe, but I would be shocked if Scott went to TU. I agree that TU is no longer a win-at-all-costs rivalry game that it once was...but does the argument that ORU isn't the fledgling D-I program that it was in the late '90s, also make the case why not to jump ship to a TU or MSU. They ain't exactly the programs they were 10-15 years ago either. Especially TU, which is just an absolute trainwreck. Sutton's situation seems to be a lot different than Self's and Hinson's. Both in terms of where they were in their careers, and the state of the respective programs. All of those benefits available at TU, will be available somewhere better. He's had too much invested at ORU to make a move like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They have some talent over there and their class for next year is very good also. I doubt they will fire him after this year as they would owe him a ton of $$. Of course they would do backflips if someone else would actually offer him a job. Lord knows his agent puts out enough feelers for one! Someone would walk into a good situation if they could keep everyone there. It will probably make for another interesting spring if ORU has a successful year and manages to make the tourney again. Scott has done a great job and i'm sure he is happy at ORU but you never say never! If Scott did take a job then it would get interesting to see who would be next in line. Should have a pretty good team again next year when Glover and Bilsbury become eligible. They will be nice additions. Though i have to admit it has been great to see GOLD in so much pain over there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Though i have to admit it has been great to see GOLD in so much pain over there. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU GRAD Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ja - meine schadenfreude läuft über. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 unless they hire Mike Carter as AD and assurance that Sean would get the ORU job, I don't see Scott moving to TU for a bump in pay of 100K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They would have to be in the $700,000 to $800,000 on their next hire i would think. I will pass on guessing who will be the next coach if Scott leaves. I really don't think they have the $$ to pay off Doug W. to get rid of him and i sure don't think he is getting the level of jobs he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 No doubt that TU fans discussing wanting either ORU's head coach or an ORU assistant coach as their next head coach is a HUGE complement to the quality of our coaching staff and to Mike Carter for hiring well. Scott Sutton has said repeatedly that it would take a "special" opportunity to take him away from ORU. I have always thought that the "special" opportunity would be a job in a BCS conference where 4-6 invitations to the Big Dance are up for grabs each year. Otherwise, Wichita State or TCU would have been appealing enough to make the jump. The only thing TU has going for them that would make them appealing is that they are located in Tulsa where he already lives. He wouldn't have to uproot his family but could get a bump-up in pay. However, the headache that would come with that bump-up would not be worth the extra $ because the expectations of many vocal TU fans are unrealistic. Whoever eventually follows Doug Wojcik will go from hero to zero unless they make the NCAA tournament regularly. Based on the current one-bid scenario and Memphis' Top 25 ranking, TU would have to win the conference tournament to get to the NCAA and that would be easier for Scott to do at ORU because there is no Memphis in the Southland Conference. If Scott makes another NCAA tournament, maybe the right BCS job will open up and they will target Scott, or maybe not. Scott has been at ORU for 12 years because he likes it here, believes in the vision of the university, and has found a situation where he can consistently win 20+ games a season and have a reasonable chance to make the NCAA tournament. I believe that TU is a more significant rival than MSU or WSU or SMU or UALR because TU has about the same number of students as ORU, is a private university, and is located in the city of Tulsa. I have several good friends who went to TU and used to have several TU grads as co-workers. When you have regular interaction with TU fans at work/church/etc., that adds greatly to the rivalry/banter and helps to add meaning to the Mayor's Cup game each year. I would guess that ORU has played TU more often than almost any other university and that history also makes the rivalry special. TU has the $ to pay to attract a quality coach, but until they hire a new president, it won't be clear whether the administration would be willing to spend big bucks to bring in a high exposure/high quality coach. Wojcik will probably end up winning 20 games again this year and make the CIT or CBI and will hold onto his job for another year, so this may be a moot point after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 TheEagleman wouldn't blame Scott Sutton or Mike Carter for taking other higher paying higher profile jobs....but TU?....if that happens....screw them!....I would feel the same way as when Bill Self went to our cross town rivals.....Sean Sutton?....heck, I really wouldn't blame him as much but don't think he would take the job either.....I agree we need to have some pride and I don't think any of those guys wind up at TU........TU Stinks....hope Wojcik continues to run them into the ground..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Had a VERY interesting conversation this weekend with an acquaintance in the TU Athletic Department that I had not talked to in a long while, and they said there is likely NO chance Doug Wojcik is going to be removed at the end of this season, as so many TU fans are expecting (hoping?). They said there's actually a sentiment among "the powers that be" that Wojcik is doing just fine "for a mid-major like TU", and that it's unfair he's expected by TU fans to compete with the ghosts of Nolan, Tubby, Bill, et al. They also pointed out that no one at 11th & Harvard wants to spend the kind of money it would take to buy him out, then spend the money it would take to hire a new coach, at least not from what they have in the coffers right now. They said there is no way they could justify making a move on "a guy who's going to win another 18-to-20 games this year, and become our all-time career wins leader in the process." They said it could be a PR disaster. I point this out in the context that one potentially attractive job opening for Scott Sutton apparently will not be a job opening at all this year - which, selfishly, is great news for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasPlayr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Not trying to question your sources, " inside the athletic department", but for every one of those that say no, there are as many if not more that says yes. And, the money IS in place. Don't kid yourself by thinking TU doesn't have boosters that wil/have put up the money. A good example of where we have fallen is the seats on the south, center sections, are mostly padded and carry the highest prices, including the seat donations($500 per seat, per year). Those seats have fallen to a low of 1/2 empty at all games. Then you have the Courtside seats that were added last year at the request of those big donors. They carry a $1000 per seat, per year price tag. And those donors did not renew their season tickets, andthe seats are usually only 1/3 filled at most games. These seats are where TU's biggest supporters have traditiońally sat. They are not there, and their numbers have fallen dramatically this year. That is a lot of money not coming in, and it will play a huge part on any decision at the end of the year. I agree that if the recent run continues, there would be the PR negativity working against the " movement" to make a change. But, if the attendance does not come back, then economics plays a huge part. And we both know it is not just winning games, you've got to put a product on the court that your boosters are willing to come see, and pay to see it. However, I will give DW a lot of credit. He is coaching like his career is on the line, and it is paying off huge. Putting the right players on the court at the right time. Subbing the right players. Making key adjustments in the middle of games. Those things are all coaching decisions that were not being made earlier in the season, or for that matter, several seasons. Now, you could say that he his trying to save his job, or even trying to put TU in an embarrasing PR situation at the end of the year. But, you might also say that he is auditioning for his next job. Should he continue this run thru the conference tournament, and get the auto bid to the NCAA, then he could be gone anyway. But, it would also make it extremely hard to make a change that wasn't mutually agreeable to both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 This person didn't say TU "didn't have the money"; they said TU "didn't want to spend the money" on a buy-out/new coach. That's a big difference. And I brought up the empty seats, and their reply was, "Well, a lot of those seats are paid for. They're just not coming to the games." And they said it like that was OK (which brings to mind Oklahoma, where their football donors don't use their basketball tickets much, either). I'm telling you, this person would know what was going on, and they seemed pretty indifferent about the whole thing, like maybe it's only a big deal to a few TU basketball fans, and that didn't necessarily mean it was a big deal to the people who would make the decision. Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasPlayr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And it could all be moot by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone77 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For the first time that I can ever recall going back to the very first ORU -TU games in the 70's, I am actually rooting for TU basketball. Selfishly of course. All this talk about a potential coaching change has me really cheering for DW and the Hurricane. The more they win, the more likely he stays. Although it was painful to see Bill Self go to TU, who would argue that it was a great career move for him, and personally I think it is great to have a former ORU coach with a national championship under his belt. ORU is no longer seen as a coaching graveyard. Self has come back to ORU in the off-season and spoken at some donor events and has always been very deferential to ORU in the media. I sat next to an Illinois booster on a flight once and he thought Bill Self was the devil himself for going on to Kansas, but didn't have any problem with the Illini scooping him (with money) from TU. It is a coach's career, which is very different than our loyalty as alums and fans. Hard to stomach any of our coaches going across town, but if it happens we will survive and thrive, just as we have in the post Bill Self era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasPlayr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Jason, TU's administration flatly refused to send the team to any tournament other than the NCAA last year. They were not going to "Pay to play" anywhere. In fact DW was told straight forwardly, "NCAA or nothing. that is what the fans expect, it is what we expect." That refusal angered DW so much that he refused any interviews for nearly 2 months. There was no end of year "State of the program" type interview that every coach has done for the past 20+ years. So, If TU was not willing to "Pay to play" last year, and they are playing to smaller crowds this year, why would they possibly do a 180 & go against the requirement from last year, and decide to Pay to enter a tournament this season. I think it is pretty clear that after 7 years, it should be NCAA or nothing. And, granted there is the attendance factor that goes along with the job. But, that is ultimately how you measure progress in the program as directly related to the Coach doing his job. But, I bet the decision has more to do with season ticket sales and actual attendance figures than anything else. Sources within the athletic department could be anyone. But, it would have to come from the AD, or the President himself to sway me from what I believe is going on behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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