Later Mayor's Cup is better (TW)

[Mike Minyard]

Later Mayor's Cup is better

By JIMMIE TRAMEL World Sports Writer

11/14/2008

TULSA AND Oral Roberts face each other in a basketball season opener Saturday.

Instead of playing each other in the first game, they should meet in the last game of the regular season.

That's the opinion of Ken Hayes, one of only two men (Bill Self was the other) to serve as head coach at both of the city's Division I hoops programs.

Hayes, who is retired and resides in Muskogee, joked that people will say, "We know why he is out of coaching" after reading about his scheduling preference for the Mayor's Cup.

Let him explain and it makes sense, and dollars.

Full Story: http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?articleID=20081114_216_B2_TULSAA23778

[Old Titan]

ORU and TU should take a cue from Xavier and Cincinnati, two other private schools in the same city who play a heated rivalry game once a year:  play the game in mid-to-late December.

It serves three purposes: 

1.  It's late enough in the season that interest in college basketball is building since regular season college football is over.

2.  It gives both teams the month before to establish their identities and build story lines (thus adding more interest for fans and media both).

3.  It doesn't interfere with conference play.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  the ORU-TU game should be the last game of the non-conference schedule for both teams - the grand finale of non-conference play before each school begins league play in earnest after January 1.

[tmh8286]

ORU and TU should take a cue from Xavier and Cincinnati, two other private schools in the same city who play a heated rivalry game once a year:  play the game in mid-to-late December.

It serves three purposes: 

1.  It's late enough in the season that interest in college basketball is building since regular season college football is over.

2.  It gives both teams the month before to establish their identities and build story lines (thus adding more interest for fans and media both).

3.  It doesn't interfere with conference play.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  the ORU-TU game should be the last game of the non-conference schedule for both teams - the grand finale of non-conference play before each school begins league play in earnest after January 1.

You're absolutely right, OT.  I'm sure that there were practical considerations that played into this year's date.  IF both schools were in agreement with your view, then it should become a priority date, set up two to three years in advance (or more), so that it could be maintained in a  premier spot in the schedule.

Unfortunately, I don't think that both programs always place that degree of emphasis on this game .

[Mike Minyard]

I wish we would play it the same Saturday as Bracket Buster weekend.  I believe that's when Memphis and Tennessee played last year.  I just think that's a great time to lob in a big non-conference game.

I'm also in favor of making the rivalry an annual home-and-home (two games each season)

[ORUTerry]

Making this game the last non-conference game makes the most sense. As OT said, it gives time for teams to gel and fans to get to know new players. The schools and media could build the game up and football would not have to be a direct competitor.

Making it the first game out of the chute is head scratching. In ORU's case, we don't have a good idea of the nature of this team - and may be until January or February until we do.

[Old Titan]

Making this game the last non-conference game makes the most sense. As OT said, it gives time for teams to gel and fans to get to know new players. The schools and media could build the game up and football would not have to be a direct competitor.

Making it the first game out of the chute is head scratching. In ORU's case, we don't have a good idea of the nature of this team - and may be until January or February until we do.

Wouldn't work - TU and C-USA are not part of the BracketBuster, so they have conference games that week and weekend.

[Mike Minyard]

Check this out too: http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2008/Final/W_111408_A_2.PDF

This was the second page of the front section of the Tulsa World this morning.

[tmh8286]

Check this out too: http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2008/Final/W_111408_A_2.PDF

This was the second page of the front section of the Tulsa World this morning.

Okay, that's a little redemption for that "clip" you posted yesterday . . .

[Mike Minyard]

Wouldn't work - TU and C-USA are not part of the BracketBuster, so they have conference games that week and weekend.

I'm not saying as part of the Bracket Buster.  I'm just saying the same time frame.  TU could play that date if Memphis plays a non-conference game that same day.

[Old Titan]

Yeah, and I just realized a huge flaw in my reasoning:  students are all gone from mid-December until after January 1st.

So maybe a little later than this year - first week of December - would be best, just like they've played them the past few years before Doug Wojcik became involved in the process.  He seems intent on playing the game as soon as possible each year, almost as if he wants to get the distraction out of the way.

[Mike Minyard]

People still don't care about college basketball the first week of December.  You going to play the same day as the Big 12 championship?

The best crowds for both schools are in February.

[Gold*]

Yeah, and I just realized a huge flaw in my reasoning:  students are all gone from mid-December until after January 1st.

So maybe a little later than this year - first week of December - would be best, just like they've played them the past few years before Doug Wojcik became involved in the process.  He seems intent on playing the game as soon as possible each year, almost as if he wants to get the distraction out of the way.

Over the summer, I heard some rumor about how they were trying to get this game on tv this year or somehow negotiate tv games for both schools.  It never made a lot of sense to me why they they chose this date, but like a lot of things, Woj (or someone else at TU) prefers to keep the fans in the dark.  I think there was something going on over the summer and it never worked out.

[Old Titan]

People still don't care about college basketball the first week of December.  You going to play the same day as the Big 12 championship?

The best crowds for both schools are in February.

WE DON'T NEED EXTRA GAMES IN FEBRUARY - WE NEED NON-CONFERENCE GAMES IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER!!  BUT, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY AM I SHOUTING?? 

Isn't the grind of the Summit League in February, especially the travel, enough?  Eight conference games in 28 days in February as it is - do we really need a ninth?

Do we really want the distraction of the Mayor's Cup, along with the risk of injury, just days before the conference tournament, which for the next few years will also be a roadie?

Ken Hayes is thinking like it's 1979 and ORU is still an independent, without a conference tournament and needing a big win late in the year to impress the NCAA and NIT committees.

That's not the case anymore - all we need to do is win the Summit League tournament, and we're in. 

We don't need the TU game sitting there like a pink elephant on the 18th hole of a Putt-Putt course, taking our focus off the big picture and threatening to ruin our entire round.

[LarryL]

OT hit the nail on the head on this one.  How about just after the first of the year, when students just get back, but with most of the conference schedule remaining?

[tmh8286]

WE DON'T NEED EXTRA GAMES IN FEBRUARY - WE NEED NON-CONFERENCE GAMES IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER!!  BUT, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY AM I SHOUTING?? 

Isn't the grind of the Summit League in February, especially the travel, enough?  Eight conference games in 28 days in February as it is - do we really need a ninth?

Do we really want the distraction of the Mayor's Cup, along with the risk of injury, just days before the conference tournament, which for the next few years will also be a roadie?

Ken Hayes is thinking like it's 1979 and ORU is still an independent, without a conference tournament and needing a big win late in the year to impress the NCAA and NIT committees.

That's not the case anymore - all we need to do is win the Summit League tournament, and we're in. 

We don't need the TU game sitting there like a pink elephant on the 18th hole of a Putt-Putt course, taking our focus off the big picture and threatening to ruin our entire round.

Okay, let's see:  November is out; December is out; January is out; February is out; March? Probably out, with the tournaments going on and all.  How about a mid- summer meeting out at Champions?  No, wait - they tore it down. 

I guess there's really no good time to play TU . 

[bballmangc]

Okay, let's see:  November is out; December is out; January is out; February is out; March? Probably out, with the tournaments going on and all.  How about a mid- summer meeting out at Champions?  No, wait - they tore it down. 

I guess there's really no good time to play TU . 

How about the first game of the season?  Say around Nov 15

[tmh8286]

How about the first game of the season?  Say around Nov 15

Now THAT'S a great idea!!!  Why didn't we think of that before??

:-D

[EagleFanatic]

I was listening to the radio this morning and they had the voice of the golden hurricanes on as a guest. His take was that Wojcik wanted to start the regular season off with a bang instead of the usual 20 point win over nobody's-heard-of-em state.