oruvoice Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 While talking to Rob "Barry Hinson's Agent" Marshall yesterday on the phone, I was reminded of something that I wanted to share for a while... It has been brought up before that, the players and coaches want to win more than the fans do. Therefore, we should watch it when being critical. I disagree with that premise. Do the coaches and players WORK harder to win? Sure. No argument. But, players, coaches, staff, and administrators almost always leave for greener pastures. Their ultimate allegiances are to their families and themselves. And, I understand that. They should be. My point simply is...whether it's Bill Self, Barry Hinson, or whomever, there will come a time (sooner or later) that ORU will be a distant memory to them. Meanwhile, it's the fans (us) that remain constant. I have bled ORU blue & gold for 16 years, some of you for MUCH longer and I have a REAL, REAL hard time thinking that ORU hoop success means more to someone (player or coach included), than it does to me (or any of you die hards). P.S. - This thought is not meant to diminish the efforts and desires and work ethic of our team and staff. Just had this on my mind for a while and the Hinson discussion over the last few days brought it to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUBlue Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Just to add a little more to your comment Voice......being somewhat of an insider, I know the coaches want to win and I mean everytime out. The loss against MSU was pretty hard on the coaches and believe me no one beats themselves up more then Coach Sutton. Coach Sutton will learn from this and move on .....and we should learn something from this. Just to add one more comment for the fans that are not happy: This was a big game folks the fans needed to bring their A game. What do you do to make the Mabee a place to win? I didn't do my part Wednesday I still had a voice and my butt was comfortable after the game. So, Fans, I blame us! Get off your butts! We should have been up the whole second half. The team was flat and the fans were too...all I could hear is what are we doing? ....what the ....was that?...wow where's the time out?.... WE buy a ticket and want to be entertained how about this ......we should entertain our coaches and players to the point where they can't be flat! I blame the FANS for the loss me included! Did anyone else notice that when the team returned to the floor for the second half only a hand full acknowledged them them with a clap, everyone else was stuffing their faces or chatting. Why don't our cheerleaders lead them back on the floor with the flags at half time? TU's cheerleaders do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Just to add one more comment for the fans that are not happy: This was a big game folks the fans needed to bring their A game. What do you do to make the Mabee a place to win? I didn't do my part Wednesday I still had a voice and my butt was comfortable after the game. So, Fans, I blame us! Get off your butts! We should have been up the whole second half. The team was flat and the fans were too...all I could hear is what are we doing? ....what the ....was that?...wow where's the time out?.... I blame the FANS for the loss me included! Did anyone else notice that when the team returned to the floor for the second half only a hand full acknowledged them them with a clap, everyone else was stuffing their faces or chatting. Not buyin' it, Blue! This game wasn't lost because of the fans. I was screaming my head off till I felt it was hopeless. Fans can't be expected to carry the game if their not getting support from their coach. Case in point: End of the first half, JB shoots a three and misses, scrum for the rebound and it goes out of bounds off an Eagle with 1.7 sec on the game clock. I don't know if the refs were just SO observant, or if Barry said something to them - I suspect the latter - but they went over to the scorers' table and added .3 sec added to the clock so that MSU got the ball with 2.0 sec on the clock. Players on both teams scrambled for the inbound pass. The ball is thrown the length of the court to the man Larry Owens was guarding at a point about where the block is under the basket. Larry and his man both go up, the MSU player tips the ball and it goes immediately out of bounds. No more than 0.1 sec (really none, it happened so fast) should have gone off the clock. Instead, 1.1 sec goes off, and we get the ball back with .9 sec on the clock. I am screaming over and over, "Two seconds, two seconds!" Finally I turn to my wife and say, "I can't believe that they aren't doing something about the clock." My dear wife said,"Well, why should he do something because some nut in the stands keeps yelling 'Two seconds!' over and over?" You know, she had a point. We inbounded the ball with .9 sec on the clock and missed the shot at the buzzer. When I thought about it, my wife was EXACTLY right. Why should the ref respond to me? It was the coaches job to try to get the clock corrected. Obviously SOMEONE, either an official or the MSU coach, thought it was important enough to make that adjustment at the other end; why didn't we? Your other points are well taken, though, Blue. ANY time the Eagles take the floor we need to be on our feet. In the case you mentioned, I WAS on my feet cheering for them, BTW. I agree about the cheerleaders, too. Maybe someone needs to work with them or their coaches or whoever to help them be a little more a part of the flow of the game. Then again, NCAA regs may have something to do with that. One other thing I'd like to point out, so that my feelings aren't misconstrued - most of the time I'm NOT critical of Scott's coaching. This was one time I think he could have done better. That's all. I'm not expressing any sort of ongoing frustration that I feel about our coaching staff. It's a one time thing for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 GREAT POINT. GREAT POINT. GREAT POINT. Did I mention, GREAT POINT, tmh!!! The refs go to the monitor at Barry's whim two other times and then he gets an ARBITRARY 0.3 seconds. Meanwhile, we say NOTHING about it and when the inbounds goes out, losing 1.1 seconds, we say nothing. I forgot about that, but it did tick me off at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I thought I was the only one who noticed that..... I could not believe we did not try to get the extra time back on the clock. Especially since they had just added time at the behest of the MSU coaches. I was screaming my lungs out.... The fans in front of me moved about five minutes into the game and my family kept giving 'the look'. Oh well, I'm doing my part from a fan standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone77 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I didn't have a voice left. In fact with about 10 minutes left to go in the game I told my wife I was losing my voice and I was feeling like I couldn't help anymore.....but I lost it shouting my lungs out IN SUPPORT of the Eagles. You can ask Coach Williams if he ever hears our group yell at the refs cause he knows us and regularly thanks us for it. We were also shouting for more time on the clock on that out-of-bounds play to no avail. Please don't paint us all with the same brush as many of us are very actively involved in the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I think Blue knows that he is preaching to the choir when he posts things here about fan involvement. It is the other segment of fans that just sit there without cheering or standing up that he is addressing. Like the people who moved from where I was sitting because my sons and I were 'making tto much noise' and standing up too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Blue usually tells me I can't blame things on the officials. I know I can't blame it all on the officials, but before the game Barry was visiting with them & they were all laughing and slapping each other on the back. When Barry wanted something reviewed he got it. When Phipps tried to talk to them at half time he was told to go back to his bench. Sutton was ignored too. I understand we had MidCon officials in Joplin last year, so it was only fair that we have Valley officials here. I also know if we had played the second half like we did the first half we could have won. But, you can't count on Larry to score 40 points in a game while JB & Tutt keep missing shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Overall I don't feel like the officiating cost us the game, mom, but had the officiating been a little different maybe Caleb would have had a little more impact than he did, which would have maybe opened things up for out perimeter shooters a little more, or given them a little more confidence, or kept Larry playing like he did in the first half, or something. It's really hard to estimate the subjective effect of poor officiating in a game like that. What bugged me even more than the QUALITY of the officiating was the ATTITUDE of the officials. I thought that they treated our team and our coaching staff with indifference, even condescension. "We're from the MVC, we're gonna show you how the big boys play", was the nonverbal message I picked up from those guys, through the entire game. I said as much to my buddies during the game. Tell me, did you EVER see them discuss a call with Scott? Terry, you TIVOed it, check it out. Mom, what you are saying regarding Coach Phipps, as well as some other things I've heard, only confirms what my impression was. Those guys were a joke. Undeserving of the authority they wielded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl VU Fan Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Overall I don't feel like the officiating cost us the game, mom, but had the officiating been a little different maybe Caleb would have had a little more impact than he did, which would have maybe opened things up for out perimeter shooters a little more, or given them a little more confidence, or kept Larry playing like he did in the first half, or something. It's really hard to estimate the subjective effect of poor officiating in a game like that. What bugged me even more than the QUALITY of the officiating was the ATTITUDE of the officials. I thought that they treated our team and our coaching staff with indifference, even condescension. "We're from the MVC, we're gonna show you how the big boys play", was the nonverbal message I picked up from those guys, through the entire game. I said as much to my buddies during the game. Tell me, did you EVER see them discuss a call with Scott? Terry, you TIVOed it, check it out. Mom, what you are saying regarding Coach Phipps, as well as some other things I've heard, only confirms what my impression was. Those guys were a joke. Undeserving of the authority they wielded. Reminds me of listening to Mike Kelly and his side-kick do the MU-UMKC game on the radio this year. They were quite obnoxious and condescending as they diagnosed that UMKC was expecting to get charging calls they normally get, but this is the Big 12 and we don't call it that way. I'm sick and tired of hearing about "The Big Ten Way" or "The Big 12 Way" or whatever when it comes to officiating. The only "Way" I'm familiar with is The Rule Book, which is the same for EVERYONE. If they were really not charging fouls, then it's because that's what the rule book says, not because "This is the Big 12". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I'm sick and tired of hearing about "The Big Ten Way" or "The Big 12 Way" or whatever when it comes to officiating. The only "Way" I'm familiar with is The Rule Book, which is the same for EVERYONE. If they were really not charging fouls, then it's because that's what the rule book says, not because "This is the Big 12". Here, here, Stl VU Fan. Very well put. Couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Wouldn't consistancy "by the book" be refreshing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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