Mayor's Cup Game Discussion

[ORUTerry]

I thought I would start this thread to consolidate discussion and analysis about Saturday's game. As others have already said, you can throw out the statistics and even relative abilities of the teams for a rivary game like this. Over the last 10 years or so this game has been very competitive.

In 1999, TU brought a very talented team (Elite 8 squad) into the Mabee Center and lost on Nathan Binan's last second, fall away 3-pointer. In 2000, ORU was completely outmatched (we weren't very good) by TU talent-wise, but took the Golden Hurricane into overtime before being beaten. Rivalry games are quirky and the best team doesn't always win. It is about emotion and pride.... That is why they are so fun to watch.

[tmh8286]

I posted this on another thread, but to consolidate the topic, as ORUTerry said, I will re-post it here. In response to what tbone77 said after this post (on the other thread), I think that the good showing by TU in the game last night might add 1000 people or more to Saturday's attendance. People may not show if the expect a blowout, but many more will if they think it will be close, or maybe even an upset.

I don't feel particularly comfortable about the ORU/TU game. I'm certainly not expecting a blowout. In the games so far, overall our defense has stepped up dramatically over past years, primarily because of improved athleticism, I think, but we're still a little soft under the basket. Many of St. Greg's points came off of baseline moves and easy layups. Part of this may be due to foul trouble Caleb found himself in in Alaska, causing him to lay off a bit in a game that we controlled, but it is a vulnerability. Also, we found that when Caleb IS in foul trouble, we have a lot more trouble scoring.

We've GOT to shoot a minimum of 40-45% to win, in my opinion. Did you notice last night that OU only shot 39% for the game? Probably a lot due to not getting the ball inside for high percentage shots, as well as going cold outside, hitting only 4-20. Their athleticism really kept them in it. If we have a poor shooting night we may very well have trouble Saturday.

The game against St. Gregory served as a good tune-up for the game against TU, just as the game against OU served as a good tune-up for them. Both games served to give confidence to the teams, in different ways, and I'm predicting a MUCH closer match-up than I would have two weeks ago.

[vcboy2000]

I know matchups can be pointless in a rivalry game because the intagibles are huge, but those of you familiar with the TU roster. What do the matchups look like? Who will guard who? From what i hear there guard play is their weak point, but what about their big men?

[tmh8286]

Shooting percentages in games so far:

Game Result/Score ORU S%

-----------------------------------------

USU L/67-72 41.7

USC W/68-48 44.4

Marquette L/70-73 40.4

Monmouth W/62-54 44.2

St. Greg W/90-52 60.9

Based on these numbers I would say we need a shooting percentage of nearer 45% than 40% to give us a chance to win.

[tmh8286]

Can any HTML experts on the board explain why my lines are double spaced when using the "pre" tag? I enter the data single spaced, and when I check the appearance with"preview" they are single spaced, but when they are posted to the board they go to double spaced.

Can anyone tell me why, or what to do to prevent it?

[Stl VU Fan]

Can any HTML experts on the board explain why my lines are double spaced when using the "pre" tag? I enter the data single spaced, and when I check the appearance with"preview" they are single spaced, but when they are posted to the board they go to double spaced.

Can anyone tell me why, or what to do to prevent it?

They look single spaced to me.

[tmh8286]

They look single spaced to me.

Okay, that's weird - I was going to question you some more about whether or not you were seeing a blank line in between each data line, but now the preformatting isn't working at all. Don't know what's up with that. Not that critical anyway - I just thought that there might be a way of getting rid of the blank line.

[vcboy2000]

Just wondering why the discussion leading up to this game is non-existent on both sides. Is it because both sides know so little about the others squads, or is everyone actually clueless on how this game will turn out?

[Weatherdemon]

Just wondering why the discussion leading up to this game is non-existent on both sides. Is it because both sides know so little about the others squads, or is everyone actually clueless on how this game will turn out?

1) ORU has won the games they should and lost the ones (that at least I) thought they would.

2) TU fans are DEPRESSED about basketball.

3) After what happened last year, I don't think TU fans are up to risking humilation in smack talking. Therefore, several are playing the, "Why is this a big game," card.

4) I really don't think TU fans know much about ORU's squad except Green and Bluitt.

5) C-USA Football Championship Game is something TU fans can feel good about. Basketball is not.

On that note.

Enjoy your arse whipping boys!

Sunday Tulsa World headlines:

GOLDEN HURRICANE SHINE BRIGHTER THAN GOLDEN OPPONENTS!

Hurricane Dechristens Knights 34-24

Hurricane Defeathers Eagle 65-59

[vcboy2000]

Personally, i think everyone just knows that ORU will win, and doesn't want to bother to get excited about the game.

[tmh8286]

1) ORU has won the games they should and lost the ones (that at least I) thought they would.

2) TU fans are DEPRESSED about basketball.

3) After what happened last year, I don't think TU fans are up to risking humilation in smack talking. Therefore, several are playing the, "Why is this a big game," card.

4) I really don't think TU fans know much about ORU's squad except Green and Bluitt.

5) C-USA Football Championship Game is something TU fans can feel good about. Basketball is not.

I think that WD nailed it, with an emphasis on 1 and 3 in my mind. I think that MOST ORU fans are a little hesitant to talk too much smack to TU at this point - kind of like not kicking a guy when he's down. If TU wins this Saturday there may be a flurry of smack going in both directions!

[vcboy2000]

Well here is my take:

Starting Line-up:

Point Guard

JB vs D. James- Nothing spectacular about this matchup. I would give the edge to JB because of experience, but James has a nice height advantage too (5-9 to 6-1). I'll say this matchup is a toss up with the winner's team taking the game. Whoever can provide the most production in getting the ball to the big time scorers while being a potent offensive threat if left open will be the x-factor for the match.

Shooting Guard

Ken Tutt vs Ray Reese- Ken Tutt is going to be Ken Tutt. He will hit some deep shots from the arch. How consistent will he be throughout the game? Reese has a 4 inch height advantage over Ken. Tutt has played against taller opponents with success before, but how will he do defensively against Reese.

Wing Guard

Larry Owens vs D. Crow- Not very familiar with Crow's offensive or defensive ability. Larry will need to have an solid contribution on the boards to help ORU win. We don't want to see the outcome of this game if we lose the rebounding battle.

Forward

Caleb Green vs Anthony Price- I know people don't like to evaluate a player during a summer league, but Green was absolutely Price's daddy on the floor during Champions. Did Anthony improve? We'll see.

Center

Micky M vs. C Ramsdell- This will be a fun one to watch. During Champions Ramsdell owned big Mick when he stepped outside to hit the J, but could get nothing down on the blocks against Mick's strength. Mick also has developed a nice outside jumper that i'm sure he'll use. Hopefully it will go down so we can open it up down low for Caleb Green. Mick will also have to watch out to not pick up stupd fouls. Ramsdell is a little more agile than Mick, and if Mick is not careful he could pick silly fouls quick.

[ashVID]

This game is easy to call this year. If ORU can shoot well, they win easy. The reason TU was able to hang with OU (WAY OVER-RATED) was one reason, OU went 4-20 from 3 point land. If they shoot 40% from 3 they win by 20+

ash =o)

[Weatherdemon]

My comments in italics.

Starting Line-up:

Point Guard

JB vs D. James- Nothing spectacular about this matchup. I would give the edge to JB because of experience, but James has a nice height advantage too (5-9 to 6-1). I'll say this matchup is a toss up with the winner's team taking the game. Whoever can provide the most production in getting the ball to the big time scorers while being a potent offensive threat if left open will be the x-factor for the match.

I would rather see Wallace start at PG but I'm not sure that will happen. JB may get a career high in steals vs James. James has the ability to score and dish assists but I think JB gets the edge here.

Shooting Guard

Ken Tutt vs Ray Reese- Ken Tutt is going to be Ken Tutt. He will hit some deep shots from the arch. How consistent will he be throughout the game? Reese has a 4 inch height advantage over Ken. Tutt has played against taller opponents with success before, but how will he do defensively against Reese.

I would rather see McDade here as I think it is a much better match up. Tutt vs Reese give Tutt the edge. Tutt vs McDade is even IMO

Wing Guard

Larry Owens vs D. Crow- Not very familiar with Crow's offensive or defensive ability. Larry will need to have an solid contribution on the boards to help ORU win. We don't want to see the outcome of this game if we lose the rebounding battle.

I think this will be even. Him and Owens, IIRC, are pretty similiar.

Forward

Caleb Green vs Anthony Price- I know people don't like to evaluate a player during a summer league, but Green was absolutely Price's daddy on the floor during Champions. Did Anthony improve? We'll see.

No surprises here. Green is a much better all around player than Price. Advantage to Green.

Center

Micky M vs. C Ramsdell- This will be a fun one to watch. During Champions Ramsdell owned big Mick when he stepped outside to hit the J, but could get nothing down on the blocks against Mick's strength. Mick also has developed a nice outside jumper that i'm sure he'll use. Hopefully it will go down so we can open it up down low for Caleb Green. Mick will also have to watch out to not pick up stupd fouls. Ramsdell is a little more agile than Mick, and if Mick is not careful he could pick silly fouls quick.

Not sure how this work. MM will body CR under the basket but doesn't have the quickness to guard him anywhere else. If CR is on from outside, advantage to him. If not, advantage to MM.

In summary, I think the game will be competitive, especially by last years standards. ORU needs to shoot better than 40% and hit free throws. TU needs to cut turnovers by at least 25% and hit free throws. If the TU from last nights first half shows up, ORU by 15. If the TU from the 2nd half shows up, TU by 3. Given that, I would have to give ORU the edge by 5 despite the attempt at smack above.

[vcboy2000]

Now we finally have it going. Some good 'ol game talk.

Interested why you think McDade starts over Reese. I just assumed Reese because he started against OU.

[ORUTerry]

From what I have seen, Tulsa cannot match ORU's overall athleticism or experience level. Ramsdell and Crow are nice players; Ramsdell is better away from the basket on offense and Crow is athletic with some nice skills. Ramsdell presents some match-up problems on the perimeter - I would not be surprised if we see Larry Owens or Yemi Ogunoye defending him. I hope Crow does not have a breakout game against ORU. He is still acclimating to the change from juco to D-1.

That said, TU will not have an answer for Green - unless they play a zone defense that is packed in or double/triple team him. That will give our shooters open looks. As Ash has said, the key will come down to guard play. Michalec also presents a challenge for TU given his size and strength - and the fact that he can step out and shoot the mid-range jumper. I suspect that we will also apply some pressure defense to test their guards.

[Weatherdemon]

Interested why you think McDade starts over Reese. I just assumed Reese because he started against OU.

McDade is a better athlete, shooter, and at least equal on defense.

He does need to relax and the let game come to him vs him forcing the game. I think Reese will play better at ORU than @ home vs OU but not by much.

[ORU Eli]

I don't know if TU gives an inch or two to their players but the funny thing about any matchup involving JB when it comes to height is that its always worse than it looks. I'm a hair taller than 5'9". I've stood next to JB. He's 5'7" or 5'8" perhaps on a day with thick soles on his shoes.