West-River Jack Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 18 minutes ago, Old Titan said: Are you really expecting anyone who cheers for ORU (in Oklahoma) to engage you in a debate as to whether the current arrangement is somehow equitable? Based on reported attendance figures?? How's this: host it ANYWHERE that is at least 100 miles away from any of the state schools in the conference and that has a major airport and enough bigger hotels for far-flung participants. Like, Minneapolis for example. Happy? I didn't ask for a debate. I said I understand your concerns. I am seriously wondering what a conference tournament in Tulsa would be like. It would be interesting to see how many Jackrabbit fans would travel to Tulsa in a year when both of our teams had a successful regular season vs if it was only one or neither of our teams have been doing particularly well. I wonder if it would be more than 500, more than 1500, more than 2500. Many of our fans are used to traveling more than the 50 or so miles that separate Brookings from Sioux Falls. Someone in one of your threads, maybe this one, suggested adding one or more teams from northern Texas. Are there any possible other teams in Oklahoma or Kansas? I honestly don't know. I am not opposed to adding more teams from the more southern states. How many teams would be max for the Summit League, in your opinion? There are two or three that would not surprise me if they left in the next few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West-River Jack Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 2 hours ago, SonofaLegend said: The free throw disparity last night is one of the worst I have ever seen, but I hope that the commissioner has zero influence on the that one way or another. I'm sure the commissioner works hard at keeping all the teams happy, I just haven't seen any evidence for it. Is there a better situation we could jump to? Maybe not, and that's how I feel we are being treated. To Mills point, it's an unfortunate situation being expected to travel to South Dakota every year, to play in a hostile environment without fans. Are there other conferences with permanent championships hosted in a members back yard? Whether we have a better situation lined up or not, the league has shown they don't intend to make changes that would put the best teams in the best position to win in the NCAA tournament. Their focus is maximizing revenue from this tournament. Mills has proven he can build a program, and great as this season has been as a fan, it has just proved that despite an extremely successful season, our opportunity to play in the NCAA requires winning three games in South Dakota every year. If I were a head coach, that'd be a tough pill to be expected to swallow. I hope we can find a compromise that works for Mills! The Big 12, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West-River Jack Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 43 minutes ago, Texasgrip said: The average attendance for men's BB this year at the Mabee Center was about 5300. I haven't seen numbers for the women's games - although it has suffered (like most of the programs I'm sure) since they split the mens/womens games and travels. You are right about hurting attendance about splitting sites and travel, that dumb concept that we sometimes call mirror scheduling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 12 minutes ago, West-River Jack said: I didn't ask for a debate. I said I understand your concerns. I am seriously wondering what a conference tournament in Tulsa would be like. It would be interesting to see how many Jackrabbit fans would travel to Tulsa in a year when both of our teams had a successful regular season vs if it was only one or neither of our teams have been doing particularly well. I wonder if it would be more than 500, more than 1500, more than 2500. Many of our fans are used to traveling more than the 50 or so miles that separate Brookings from Sioux Falls. Someone in one of your threads, maybe this one, suggested adding one or more teams from northern Texas. Are there any possible other teams in Oklahoma or Kansas? I honestly don't know. I am not opposed to adding more teams from the more southern states. How many teams would be max for the Summit League, in your opinion? There are two or three that would not surprise me if they left in the next few years. No one SOUTH of Tulsa is going to join a league that insists on hosting its major sport championship more than a day's drive away...to the north...in winter. I would look at it from this perspective: what is the Summit League office going to do when the XDSU's (and then the UXD's) bolt for the Missouri Valley Conference just so the name agrees with their football affiliation? (and yes, I realize the two governing bodies are connected in name only). More importantly, what are they going to do when all the Sanford Health money dries up and Midco doesn't care about broadcasting the tournament anymore? Suddenly, that free rent in Sioux Falls just to freeze your butt off 6 months out of the year doesn't look so smart... P.S. Tulsa hosted the Mid-Continent tournament for four years back in the mid-2000's. It was poorly attended by the teams up north because (surprise!) it was too far to drive when the weather that time of year up there is unpredictable. AND THEY ALL WHINED ABOUT IT!! (lol) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I've heard rumors that Midco is having preliminary conversations with COX about possible getting their feed in the COX market. Not sure how accurate that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West-River Jack Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, Old Titan said: No one SOUTH of Tulsa is going to join a league that insists on hosting its major sport championship more than a day's drive away. North. In winter. I would look at it from this perspective: what is the Summit League office going to do when the XDSU's (and then the UXD's) bolt for the Missouri Valley Conference just so the name agrees with their football affiliation? (and yes, I realize the two governing bodies are connected in name only). More importantly, what are they going to do when all the Sanford Health money dries up and Midco doesn't care about broadcasting the tournament anymore? Suddenly, that free rent in Sioux Falls just to freeze your butt off 8 months out of the year doesn't look so smart... It's not likely that the MVC invites the schools in the Dakotas to join. We don't have a big enough media market to generate the dollars that they are likely to demand. ORU probably has a better chance, but only if you participate in the correct list of sports. The MVC isn't impressed by FCS football. FCS football probably does not generate any net revenue for the conference or for most, if any, schools that participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 31 minutes ago, vcboy2000 said: I've heard rumors that Midco is having preliminary conversations with COX about possible getting their feed in the COX market. Not sure how accurate that is. It would make sense; opens them up to regional advertisers like QuikTrip, Casey's, Sonic, Braums, Phillips, etc. who have markets in Oklahoma and in Midco's service area. Would love to see them branch out to the Buffalo Wild Wings and Chili's of the world and not have to rely so heavily on Hooters, for crying out loud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Old Titan said: No one SOUTH of Tulsa is going to join a league that insists on hosting its major sport championship more than a day's drive away...to the north...in winter. I would look at it from this perspective: what is the Summit League office going to do when the XDSU's (and then the UXD's) bolt for the Missouri Valley Conference just so the name agrees with their football affiliation? (and yes, I realize the two governing bodies are connected in name only). More importantly, what are they going to do when all the Sanford Health money dries up and Midco doesn't care about broadcasting the tournament anymore? Suddenly, that free rent in Sioux Falls just to freeze your butt off 6 months out of the year doesn't look so smart... P.S. Tulsa hosted the Mid-Continent tournament for four years back in the mid-2000's. It was poorly attended by the teams up north because (surprise!) it was too far to drive when the weather that time of year up there is unpredictable. AND THEY ALL WHINED ABOUT IT!! (lol) Is KC an option? Or maybe rotate it every 2 years? I know it didn't do well in Tulsa for those 4 years but think it would do better now. I get that the conference makes a good amount of $$ by having it up there but think they could rotate it some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenj Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 14 hours ago, ORUJason said: I think there might be a little bit of an overly negative reaction pointed toward the Summit League Conference leadership. It is inherently difficult to keep every school in a conference happy. In a conference like the Summit League, the conference commissioner is trying to keep the teams in their conference from wanting to leave. The longer he can pull that off, the more stable the conference appears and the more attractive the conference seems. Maximizing the revenue from all streams (TV, conference tournament, etc.) helps the funding of the conference and the ability if possible to pass on any funds back to member institutions, such as from the NCAA tournament participation payouts. Until someone can show me a realistically better landing spot for ORU, I think we should appreciate the stability and opportunities that the Summit League has provided in the past and currently provides for us. From previous discussions, it seems clear that ORU would have to add women's softball to even be considered for the Missouri Valley, and the last time they added teams, it did not appear that they ever seriously considered ORU. Several years back we found out pretty quickly that the Southland Conference is worse on the distance of travel and in the quality of their member institutions. The Sun Belt only wants football schools. The Ohio Valley conference is too far away and would be worse on travel without providing any increased competitive benefit. The WAC is very unstable and much worse on travel. The Horizon is farther away, does not seem interested, and does not provide any increased competitive benefit. The American Athletic Conference is a football-only conference. The Summit clearly is by far the best current situation for ORU. The Missouri Valley used to be a step-up type of conference that we could aspire toward, but they have lost many of their high quality teams, so it could be debated as to whether that would even be a better option. I think that is an interesting discussion. As far as the location of the conference tournament, the Sioux Falls area is fairly central geographically. Omaha would also be a fairly central location, but farther for the 5 northern schools (Dakotas and St. Thomas). The SDSU fanbase provides a lot of local support since it is only 30 minutes away. We do not even know if ORU/Tulsa Sports Commission has recently submitted a bid for the conference tournament. I think most of the decisions the Conference has made are very logical. A competitive ORU is good for the conference and I would think that the Dakota schools would see it that way. When we are more competitive, it increases our influence and clout. The Conference absolutely needs to improve their TV/media/streaming deals to hopefully increase funding, exposure, and accessibility. The most important thing about the conference basketball tournaments is that regardless of where they occur, that they are as fair as possible for all the participants. I felt that ORU's game last night was officiated very fairly. I think what bothered me is that the free throw disparity between Omaha and SDSU did NOT seem fair. The commissioner needs to ensure absolute fairness and emphasize that with the officials. If the tournament is perceived as being advantaged toward SDSU in any way, several other schools will not be happy about that including ORU. In most/possibly all of the other sports, they rotate the site of the tournament to the previous regular season champion. That is very fair and has benefitted ORU's baseball program significantly. Rather than saying that ORU needs to look for a better conference, ORU should be working to support the Summit League so that it will remain as stable as possible. I am absolutely in favor of ORU submitting a proposal to seed the basketball tournaments like the West Coast Conference does. I have no idea if there would be 6 member schools that would support this idea, but it makes a lot of sense to me. However, ORU has not been a 1 or 2 seed very often over our recent history, so it might not always benefit us as much as you might think unless we remain very competitive into the future. The coaches despised the Southland Conference. They wanted out of there quickly. I can't even imagine Tulsa's reaction if the AAC starting talking to ORU about joining but it sure would be fun to watch!:):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Sorry but what's wrong with Hooters???..... They sure do have some tasty wings..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 As much as we hate it, the tourny isn't going anywhere. It doesn't matter who it favors or who it discriminates against. The fact is, there is not enough pull in the league to have it outside of the Dakotas where the interest is extremely high because there are no other major universities or professional sports. The seats are full. It is the super bowl for the frozen tundra. If we want out, we are going to have to find a better conference who wants us. The only way that happens is for us to be dominant for a number of years and make ourselves attractive to the Missouri Valley or Conference USA, or some other mid-major conference that doesn't require football. I can see ORU and other schools pressuring the league to make a change in the way the conference bracket is laid out, so that it favors the team that won the regular season. But let's face it, the tournament is firmly frozen in the arctic regions of the country and it ain't going nowhere. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Unfortunately, the best way for change to happen in regards to the conference tournament is for ORU to lose in the finals to SDSU and to not get an at-large bid. This scenario, as much as it would pain us, is the only way any real traction gets made. It would show whoever is listening that: a) a dominant non-XDSU team (18-0) b) in a one-bid league c) lost in a ROAD game (listed as neutral on paper) d) to a team that they are better than (2-0 with a win at mighty Frost arena) If the game was decided on a controversial call or if there is a big discrepancy at the FT line, then that would add fuel to the fire. If we win the championship game against SDSU it really will squelch all momentum for moving the tournament. It’s really a lose-lose situation for ORU unfortunately. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 3 hours ago, dave said: As much as we hate it, the tourny isn't going anywhere. It doesn't matter who it favors or who it discriminates against. The fact is, there is not enough pull in the league to have it outside of the Dakotas where the interest is extremely high because there are no other major universities or professional sports. The seats are full. It is the super bowl for the frozen tundra. If we want out, we are going to have to find a better conference who wants us. The only way that happens is for us to be dominant for a number of years and make ourselves attractive to the Missouri Valley or Conference USA, or some other mid-major conference that doesn't require football. I can see ORU and other schools pressuring the league to make a change in the way the conference bracket is laid out, so that it favors the team that won the regular season. But let's face it, the tournament is firmly frozen in the arctic regions of the country and it ain't going nowhere. But, you don't have to take dave's word for it; just ask Commissioner Hockey! (BTW, if they ever commission a Mount Rushmore for "South Dakota Sports Villians", do you think they will work from a photo of Coach Mills, or ask him to sit for it?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUSwagger Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, Old Titan said: But, you don't have to take dave's word for it; just ask Commissioner Hockey! (BTW, if they ever commission a Mount Rushmore for "South Dakota Sports Villians", do you think they will work from a photo of Coach Mills, or ask him to sit for it?) These Dakota media outlets in Preventative Maintenance Mode…… 🛠 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Coach Mills is just planting a seed to say maybe in the future, the tournament could be somewhere else, besides South Dakota. That seed may take some time but if a few of the other non Dakota schools would back him up then the front office would feel the pressure and start thinking about moving the the tournament to another area. It is worth a shot. There are a majority of non-Dakota schools in the league (6-4). If they come together then maybe something would change, otherwise it will most likely stay in Sioux Falls for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, ORUFanbase said: These Dakota media outlets in Preventative Maintenance Mode…… 🛠 McFeely is a hack. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the new commissioner, though. The guy hasn't hardly been with the Summit League for a full year yet, and pretty much everything that the league has in place, in regard to mirrored scheduling, the tournament, and TV, was implemented under the former commissioner. Fenton did a great job with the hockey conference and he will do the same for the Summit League. The league is currently working on a new TV contract which should be announced this spring, and FYI, the hockey conference that he was in charge of played the first round of the tournament at campus sites, like Mills wants for the Summit. He was able to get his hockey conference a deal with CBSSN, so I'd think that he should be able to at least match that for basketball. I believe Midco wants to be in the mix as well to broadcast more league-wide Summit games during the regular season, so that's great to hear that they are in talks with Cox (would love to hear more info about that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Keenan Henderson said: Coach Mills is just planting a seed to say maybe in the future, the tournament could be somewhere else, besides South Dakota. That seed may take some time but if a few of the other non Dakota schools would back him up then the front office would feel the pressure and start thinking about moving the the tournament to another area. It is worth a shot. There are a majority of non-Dakota schools in the league (6-4). If they come together then maybe something would change, otherwise it will most likely stay in Sioux Falls for a long time. It's not going anywhere; they're probably making as much off the women's side alone as some (most?) low-to-mid-major tournaments make for men's and women's combined. As long as the Dakota schools stay in the Summit League, Sioux Falls has it locked up (particularly with Commissioner Hockey at the helm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum11 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 If we can dominate the Summit League, play a decent non-conference schedule that gets us 1-2 Quad 1 wins, and make it to the Big Dance routinely isn’t that worth the tournament being in Sioux Falls? I don’t see us going to any other conference and having the same path to the national spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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