On the Bubble: ORU's At-Large Chances (if needed)

[eagle88]

14 minutes ago, theeagleman5 said:

Yeah it's unfair....but ORU needed to win one of those 4 games we lost.....win over UNM or Utah St and it might be a different story.....also would have helped our cause if OSU and TX-Arlington had not pulled out of games a couple months before the season started forcing us into additional contests vs. low level opposition.....hard to believe if we lose vs. SDSU in the Summit Final and finish 29-5 that we don't deserve a bid....but that's what will happen.....ORU will be on that next 4 out list.....the NCAA Selection Committee would rather put the 9th best team in the Big Ten like Penn State at 18-12 in over the best team in the Summit......

Definitely agree with Eagleman. If we get  an at large bid it would be an unexpected gift that few if any teams in our class have gotten. Just win out!!

[ManiacAlum]

ORU wouldn't have gotten in even with wins at UNM and Utah St. 

The NET is just a different arbitrary metric of quality, it's just like the RPI in that way, except it provides a better cover for screwing the smaller conferences in March.

A solution would be to expand the First Four model and have a mini play in tournament to the Big Dance with automatic bids to the regular season champs. The tourney winner goes straight to the 64 team field.

It doesn't dilute the money making conference tournaments and you could fill out the play-in spots with whatever below average P5 teams they were gonna let in anyway.

But that'll never happen, the NCAA likes the 9 billion dollars they get to charge CBS et al. for a 68 team tournament but they would prefer to distribute as little of that to the little guys as they have to.

Which in economic terms makes sense, nobody is paying something for "nothing" if they don't have to and that piece of the pie just gets sliced up more as you move down the conference hierarchy. The NCAA can get a Cinderella every year, St. Peter's happened literally the year after ORU. That's what makes it funny when our Summit brethren talk about conferences are going to come calling based on FCS or NCAA Hockey success. Same reason the SEC doesn't add ORU baseball.

[Keenan Henderson]

Has the Summit League ever gotten an at large bid?  I have not done the research but would expect a no on that one.

[Old Titan]

55 minutes ago, ManiacAlum said:

ORU wouldn't have gotten in even with wins at UNM and Utah St. 

The NET is just a different arbitrary metric of quality, it's just like the RPI in that way, except it provides a better cover for screwing the smaller conferences in March.

A solution would be to expand the First Four model and have a mini play in tournament to the Big Dance with automatic bids to the regular season champs. The tourney winner goes straight to the 64 team field.

It doesn't dilute the money making conference tournaments and you could fill out the play-in spots with whatever below average P5 teams they were gonna let in anyway.

But that'll never happen, the NCAA likes the 9 billion dollars they get to charge CBS et al. for a 68 team tournament but they would prefer to distribute as little of that to the little guys as they have to.

Which in economic terms makes sense, nobody is paying something for "nothing" if they don't have to and that piece of the pie just gets sliced up more as you move down the conference hierarchy. The NCAA can get a Cinderella every year, St. Peter's happened literally the year after ORU. That's what makes it funny when our Summit brethren talk about conferences are going to come calling based on FCS or NCAA Hockey success. Same reason the SEC doesn't add ORU baseball.

Strangely enough, there is one unexpected obstacle standing in the way of expanding the tournament:  The Masters golf tournament.

CBS pays over a billion dollars for the NCAA tournament rites while paying NOTHING for The Masters, which it nevertheless heavily promotes during the NCAA tournament.  Their 1-year contracts with The Masters have been annually renewed for decades, where they use Masters weekend to promote their upcoming PGA telecasts and prime time programming, while Augusta National is granted complete control of the broadcast and all revenue from their limited list of sponsors.

The entire NCAA regular and postseason schedule for men's and women's basketball is consequently predicated on when The Masters is played each year.  Take this year for example for men's basketball (counting backward):

• The Masters:  Thursday, April 6th thru 9th
• The Final Four:  Saturday, April 1 thru Monday, April 3
• NCAA Regionals:  Thursday, March 23rd thru Sunday, March 26th
• NCAA First & Second Rounds:  Thursday, March 16th thru Sunday, March 19th
• NCAA First Four in Dayton:  Tuesday, March 14th thru Wednesday, March 15th
• NCAA Selection Sunday:  March 12th

So, since additional days can't be added to the end of the NCAA tournament, it would mean backing up Selection Sunday by one week to add more days of games, and could conceivably lead to (in an homage to the wonderful Onion parody on YouTube re: an expanded tournament) the "Scintillating Sixty-Four" and/or the "Thrilling Thirty-Two" in the next round.

And moving the calender back means all conference tournaments would have to be finished by the new Selection Sunday date, which would mean reagular season conference play (at least for the Summit League) starting even earlier than the late December dates of this season, which were played without students in attendance.

Bottom line:  the calendar (at least while CBS and Augusta National have their way) is fixed.

Where ya gonna put more games??

 

[ManiacAlum]

45 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

Strangely enough, there is one unexpected obstacle standing in the way of expanding the tournament:  The Masters golf tournament.

CBS pays over a billion dollars for the NCAA tournament rites while paying NOTHING for The Masters, which it nevertheless heavily promotes during the NCAA tournament.  Their 1-year contracts with The Masters have been annually renewed for decades, where they use Masters weekend to promote their upcoming PGA telecasts and prime time programming, while Augusta National is granted complete control of the broadcast and all revenue from their limited list of sponsors.

The entire NCAA regular and postseason schedule for men's and women's basketball is consequently predicated on when The Masters is played each year.  Take this year for example for men's basketball (counting backward):

• The Masters:  Thursday, April 6th thru 9th
• The Final Four:  Saturday, April 1 thru Monday, April 3
• NCAA Regionals:  Thursday, March 23rd thru Sunday, March 26th
• NCAA First & Second Rounds:  Thursday, March 16th thru Sunday, March 19th
• NCAA First Four in Dayton:  Tuesday, March 14th thru Wednesday, March 15th
• NCAA Selection Sunday:  March 12th

So, since additional days can't be added to the end of the NCAA tournament, it would mean backing up Selection Sunday by one week to add more days of games, and could conceivably lead to (in an homage to the wonderful Onion parody on YouTube re: an expanded tournament) the "Scintillating Sixty-Four" and/or the "Thrilling Thirty-Two" in the next round.

And moving the calender back means all conference tournaments would have to be finished by the new Selection Sunday date, which would mean reagular season conference play (at least for the Summit League) starting even earlier than the late December dates of this season, which were played without students in attendance.

Bottom line:  the calendar (at least while CBS and Augusta National have their way) is fixed.

Where ya gonna put more games??

 

Oh wow, I didn't know any of that 

Why is the Masters tied to that particular weekend?

I was going to mention that it was suggested some years back that college basketball not start until January but it looks like football is going to be extended even further into January.

Also, at the middle to end of April you begin the NBA playoff marathon. 

I guess college basketball is just stuck as it is.

[ManiacAlum]

1 hour ago, Keenan Henderson said:

Has the Summit League ever gotten an at large bid?  I have not done the research but would expect a no on that one.

According to Wikipedia, The Summit League/Mid-Con/Association of Mid-Continent Universities received at large bids in:

• 1990- Missouri State
• 1991- Northern Illinois

*Cleveland State got an at large bid in 1986 before the conference was awarded an automatic qualifier.

Ironically, this was the team that made the Sweet Sixteen before losing to a Navy team featuring David Robinson and former Michigan St assistant/former TU head coach/current Michigan St assistant Doug Wojcik.

[ORUJason]

You fit the extra games on the Tuesday and Wednesday when the extra 4 games are played in Dayton.  You could easily add 4 more games on those days and extend the field to 72 participants.

The play in games would be an evening session on Tuesday and Wednesday each with 4 games not unlike the Thursday and Friday evening sessions in the first round that have 8 games each.

You could expand it all the way to 80 games with 8 play in games on Tuesday and Wednesday if they wanted to do so.  80 participants would definitely leave room for a few of the best mid major teams who were upset in their conference tournaments.

[Otis 83]

I'm just dreaming of a NCAA tournament broadcast without hearing Jim Nance say "a tradition like no other"....and it sounds like heaven.

[tmh8286]

The number of NCAA Division I teams seems to continue to grow, and it may be appropriate to find a way to increase the number of teams in the tournament through some play-in games. However, I've always felt like the "Field of 64" was almost magical. It creates a framework for what to me is the greatest sporting event, certainly in America, but possibly in the world. I know World Cup fans would laugh at that, but since I've probably never watched a single World Cup game in my life, I give short shrift to that.

[tmh8286]

3 hours ago, Otis 83 said:

I'm just dreaming of a NCAA tournament broadcast without hearing Jim Nance say "a tradition like no other"....and it sounds like heaven.

I thought he said that at the Masters . . .

[Otis 83]

23 minutes ago, tmh8286 said:

I thought he said that at the Masters . . .

Listen for it. He says it in

every

stinking

promo

[Texasgrip]

1 hour ago, tmh8286 said:

The number of NCAA Division I teams seems to continue to grow, and it may be appropriate to find a way to increase the number of teams in the tournament through some play-in games. However, I've always felt like the "Field of 64" was almost magical. It creates a framework for what to me is the greatest sporting event, certainly in America, but possibly in the world. I know World Cup fans would laugh at that, but since I've probably never watched a single World Cup game in my life, I give short shrift to that.

Agreed on the (final) Field of 64; wouldn't be opposed to a few more "pre-64" play-in games to get there.

Also, the World Cup is way better! Looking forward to some games in KC, Dallas, and Houston in 2026!   

[tmh8286]

1 hour ago, Texasgrip said:

Agreed on the (final) Field of 64; wouldn't be opposed to a few more "pre-64" play-in games to get there.

Also, the World Cup is way better! Looking forward to some games in KC, Dallas, and Houston in 2026!   

I do believe soccer is an acquired taste . . .

[Texasgrip]

46 minutes ago, tmh8286 said:

I do believe soccer is an acquired taste . . .

I almost played at ORU. Always wish I would have pursued it a little harder.

[SonofaLegend]

The least the league could do for us, is to protect our players. League refs are way to comfortable with Max taking an absolute beating while they swallow their whistles. 
 

It seems to me like this would be the most politically expedient time to lobby for change, with an 18-0 record as leverage. 

[theeagleman5]

MAX = MVP.....

[ron]

At 28-4, we get closer every game to making an argument for an at-large bid. I certainly hope we don't need it, but the storyline that we bring this year is too good not to promote at the dance. I don't know much, but it feels like we shouldn't count out the possibility.