Reality Check

[74Titan]

With some hesitancy, here's some reality regarding the men's basketball status:

1. The two-year old run to the Sweet 16 has been over for some time. Get over it. Coach Mills instructed his players to do the same in May, 2020. It's time for fans to do the same.

2. Had Ohio State hit its free throws ORU would have been not advanced to play Florida. To ORU's credit, our guys did hit theirs. And moved on.

3. Hype may sell tickets, but doesn't win ball games. Get over the past; focus on now. The Titans of old went to a post-season tournament three years in a row, 4/6 years-BEFORE there were 64 teams. Good teams expect (not hope) to go to  a tournament. For the record, ORU was an independent back then making it harder to get a bid. And no 3-point shots. The 1976-77 team had two NBA draftees (Anthony Roberts and Alvin Scott). Back then being drafted by the NBA was exciting-but not that unusual. Richard Fuqua and Sam McCamey were also drafted (early 70s), as was Greg McDougald in '75. When that occurrence resumes to the now of ORU's existence, then something good is happening, basketball wise. 

4. Crowds in the 70s averaged 8000+ a game in multiple seasons, with fewer students making more noise. Winning creates interest, producing crowds. Don't tell me there are more choices today. A recent women's college basketball game (2-3 years ago) drew 16,000 attendees. When average MEN'S attendance is back to 8K a game, then talk. 

5. Credit ORU for taking advantage of (now) ancient history to expand both academic and athletic facilities. To quote C.H. Spurgeon, "Well done is better than well said." A good team exploited two more-talented teams' weaknesses to excel. Well done. 

6. Letting go of the past makes it easier to focus on now. Stay focused.

 

[ORob1]

74 Titan:

For me, part of being a life-long fan of 45+ years is being excited about the upcoming season.  Now that there's a forum like this to join Titan/Golden Eagle fans and share in the OPTIMISM, I'm gonna do just that.  I admit ALMOST every year the ORU basketball (and baseball) teams break my heart, and fall short of what I expect them to do.  But I have no regrets for supporting them and watching every game and cheering my heart out!  As ORU fans, how are we any different from any other school's fans looking forward to college basketball season and talking amongst ourselves in a safe environment about what it's going to take to win the conference, and in this case get back to the Sweet 16?  WE'RE HOMERS for goodness sake!  I suppose there's someone preaching to UCLA fans right now about their expectations and comparing them to their dynasty teams of the 70's-but who wants THAT guy around on the Bruin message board?  Keep in mind, I'm 620 miles away so I'm very thankful for the hype and excitement of others about my Golden Eagles.  I hope the optimism here continues because it's more fun that way, but this year's team is going to do what it's going to do inspite of message board traffic and enthusiasm, so we might as well have fun and prepare for the Final 4!

Go ORU!

Rob      

[Keenan Henderson]

It was not too long ago that ORU was winning around 8-10 games a year (2015-19) and even lost to a non D1 (SNU) team at home.  While it may not be the 70s glory days, things have definitely improved.  It is still a long way up the mountain but feels like the team is moving in the right direction.  Mills can definitely bring in talent: freshman, transfers, and international players. The students are excited and showed up last season in high numbers to home games.

Even without Lufile, believing that this can still be an exciting year!  There will be ups and downs but how times do we get to watch a player like MidCourt Max for his final year!  Not too often.

[GoldenEagleFan]

Well that was an odd post. 

[theeagleman5]

Sorry 74,,,,Sam McCamey was a wonderful PE teacher, a fine man and a good ORU basketball player....But he was NOT drafted by the NBA...perhaps the US Army but not the NBA....perhaps you are thinking of Sam McCants.....anyway, appreciate your opinions but life and culture was a LOT different 50 years ago.....just a fact.....we ORU fans are optimistic about the upcoming 2022-23 season and our guys under Coach Mills.....yeah, they are not the teams from the 70s and the early 2000s....but we root them on anyway and continue to do one thing that never changes....EXPECT A MIRACLE!!!   

[GoldenEagleFan]

9 hours ago, 74Titan said:

The 1976-77 team had two NBA draftees (Anthony Roberts and Alvin Scott). Back then being drafted by the NBA was exciting-but not that unusual.

You can’t compare NBA Drafts from the 70s to present day. The 1970 draft had 19 rounds and 239 players selected. The 1974 draft had 10 rounds. It’s just not comparable to today’s draft of 2 rounds with only 60 players selected. And not to mention the number of international players selected by the NBA compared to earlier times. 

[jmg1984]

16 hours ago, theeagleman5 said:

Sorry 74,,,,Sam McCamey was a wonderful PE teacher, a fine man and a good ORU basketball player....But he was NOT drafted by the NBA...perhaps the US Army but not the NBA....perhaps you are thinking of Sam McCants.....anyway, appreciate your opinions but life and culture was a LOT different 50 years ago.....just a fact.....we ORU fans are optimistic about the upcoming 2022-23 season and our guys under Coach Mills.....yeah, they are not the teams from the 70s and the early 2000s....but we root them on anyway and continue to do one thing that never changes....EXPECT A MIRACLE!!!   

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sam-mccamey-1.html

He was drafted.

[theeagleman5]

WOW!!!.....had no idea.....TheEagleman stands corrected.....sorry 74....my error.....God Bless Sam McCamey....anybody know if Sam is still around Tulsa?....TheEagleman had Coach McCamey for a couple of PE classes back in the day and really liked him.....a very very nice man.....he played ORU basketball in the late 60s and early 70s and was on staff by the time I got to 7777 So. Lewis in the fall of 1972.....

[ORU40]

• ORU Players drafted in the NBA per the media guide (which contains many inaccuracies by the way) they mis-spelled Sam McCamey as Sam McCarney and also have the year for Antonio Martins pick incorrect, it should be 79-or 80, not 89. They also have the conference tourney scoring and FG records incorrect, but me and Calvin Garrett know it's actually 36 set in 1984 and not his 34 as listed! Hopefully, Max will break that this year!!!
• NAME YR. RD PICK TEAM; 
• Sam McCamey 1972 8 14 Boston
• Richard Fuqua 1973 4 17 Boston
• Greg McDougald 1974 3 18 Milwaukee
• Sam McCants 1974 8 16 Chicago
• Sam McCants 1975 4 4 Phoenix
• David Vaughn 1975 4 9 New York
• Al Boswell 1975 7 17 Boston
• Anthony Roberts 1977 1 21 Denver
• Arnold Dugger 1977 3 20 Philadelphia
• Alvin Scott 1977 7 5 Phoenix
• Calvin Garrett 1979 3 3 Chicago
• Lamont Reid 1979 4 22 Washington
• Antonio Martin 1989 6 8 Cleveland
• Gary Johnson 1982 9 13 New Jersey
• Mark Acres 1985 2 16 Dallas
• Sam Potter 1985 6 18 Houston
• Jeff Acres 1985 7 1 Indiana
• Haywoode Workman 1989 2 22 Atlanta
• Greg Sutton 1991 2 22 San Antonio
• Anthony Jones 1991 2 25 L.A. Lakers
• 2 years 1977 & 1985 each had 3 players selected!!

[eagle88]

We need a current draft pick!! Go Max!!!!!

[jmg1984]

11 minutes ago, ORU40 said:

• ORU Players drafted in the NBA per the media guide (which contains many inaccuracies by the way) they mis-spelled Sam McCamey as Sam McCarney and also have the year for Antonio Martins pick incorrect, it should be 79-or 80, not 89. They also have the conference tourney scoring and FG records incorrect, but me and Calvin Garrett know it's actually 36 set in 1984 and not his 34 as listed! Hopefully, Max will break that this year!!!
• NAME YR. RD PICK TEAM; 
• Sam McCamey 1972 8 14 Boston
• Richard Fuqua 1973 4 17 Boston
• Greg McDougald 1974 3 18 Milwaukee
• Sam McCants 1974 8 16 Chicago
• Sam McCants 1975 4 4 Phoenix
• David Vaughn 1975 4 9 New York
• Al Boswell 1975 7 17 Boston
• Anthony Roberts 1977 1 21 Denver
• Arnold Dugger 1977 3 20 Philadelphia
• Alvin Scott 1977 7 5 Phoenix
• Calvin Garrett 1979 3 3 Chicago
• Lamont Reid 1979 4 22 Washington
• Antonio Martin 1989 6 8 Cleveland
• Gary Johnson 1982 9 13 New Jersey
• Mark Acres 1985 2 16 Dallas
• Sam Potter 1985 6 18 Houston
• Jeff Acres 1985 7 1 Indiana
• Haywoode Workman 1989 2 22 Atlanta
• Greg Sutton 1991 2 22 San Antonio
• Anthony Jones 1991 2 25 L.A. Lakers
• 2 years 1977 & 1985 each had 3 players selected!!

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/antonio-martin-1.html

You are so correct about the errors. Nice job and list!

[Old Titan]

I must admit being somewhat perplexed by a post that more than once says "get over the past" while simultaneously listing several milestones from the past.

[74Titan]

Mentioning the past is a tool of comparison to the over emphasis of two years ago. One of my points is that going to a tournament is nice; making it an expected outcome is another. I well remember when the (then) Titans went to the NIT in 1972. First tournament appearance. Talk about giddiness mixed with apprehension! How would we do facing the "big boys?" Many of us watched the game on televisions in the cafeteria. The upstarts from South Tulsa proved their worthiness by beating Memphis State by 94-74. Going in '73, '74, and '77 became exciting, but with some expectation. A culture of success. What was tasted two years ago has the potential of becoming an annual meal.

Coach Mills and staff recruit well. They've come a long ways from Coach Sutton's last teams and the first two years under Coach Mills. This season affords the senior-laden team an opportunity to be a team that fans will remember for years to come. Something worth seeing in person. 

I don't live in the past. Players today are taller, heavier, and stronger than those during the early to mid 70s.  And, hopefully, more disciplined on the court (Side note: what would some of the scores have been back then if dunking and 3-point shots have been allowed? No shot clock either-but we rarely took that long to shoot.)

[GoldenEagleFan]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:36 PM, 74Titan said:

Had Ohio State hit its free throws ORU would have been not advanced to play Florida.

That’s like saying “Had Max made his 3ptr at the buzzer ORU would have beaten Arkansas and advanced to the Elite Eight”. 

[titansforever]

Regarding student support for the teams...this article appeared in The Oracle recently:

https://oruoracle.com/917/sports/the-nest-bring-a-boost-of-energy-for-oru-athletics/ 

Let's hope they really do come out to the Mabee in large, noisy numbers this season!

[RiderJake]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:49 PM, 74Titan said:

Mentioning the past is a tool of comparison to the over emphasis of two years ago. One of my points is that going to a tournament is nice; making it an expected outcome is another. I well remember when the (then) Titans went to the NIT in 1972. First tournament appearance. Talk about giddiness mixed with apprehension! How would we do facing the "big boys?" Many of us watched the game on televisions in the cafeteria. The upstarts from South Tulsa proved their worthiness by beating Memphis State by 94-74. Going in '73, '74, and '77 became exciting, but with some expectation. A culture of success. What was tasted two years ago has the potential of becoming an annual meal.

Coach Mills and staff recruit well. They've come a long ways from Coach Sutton's last teams and the first two years under Coach Mills. This season affords the senior-laden team an opportunity to be a team that fans will remember for years to come. Something worth seeing in person. 

I don't live in the past. Players today are taller, heavier, and stronger than those during the early to mid 70s.  And, hopefully, more disciplined on the court (Side note: what would some of the scores have been back then if dunking and 3-point shots have been allowed? No shot clock either-but we rarely took that long to shoot.)

It's true, today's players are bigger, taller, and stronger than they were in the '70s. It's a kind of evolution of basketball, because those are the players that are in demand and get results, although there are exceptions.

On 10/12/2022 at 5:44 PM, titansforever said:

Regarding student support for the teams...this article appeared in The Oracle recently:

https://oruoracle.com/917/sports/the-nest-bring-a-boost-of-energy-for-oru-athletics-here

Let's hope they really do come out to the Mabee in large, noisy numbers this season!

Expanding the fan base is the best idea Carter could have had. It should have been done sooner, but better later than never. The fan base is about getting more young people involved in the sport. And it also allows everyone to think more about their health.

[TrueBlue82]

The Sweet Sixteen run led to a significant increase in new student applications, and last year’s freshman class came to campus with advanced knowledge that the basketball program was something special.  The strong student turnout for last season reflected this dynamic.  
 

There should be a further ripple effect this year, and incoming freshmen will again come to campus with an awareness of the success of ORU basketball.  I expect the student population to be very active in supporting this team, and the large number of home games early in the season will provide ample opportunity.  Expect some Mabee Miracles!