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When to fire a Coach?


oruvoice
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With all of the recent conversations and firings of two long time head coaches, I got to thinking...why those two and not others?

If a coach is 20 years in and his last conference title is 10 years removed, is that person on the hot seat? If a coach is 10 years in and has zero conference titles, is that person on the hot seat? If the head men's basketball coach or baseball coach had either of those resumes, would they be retained?

Seems a bit arbitrary to me. Perhaps others could offer their $0.02? 

Footnote...I'm not saying they should be fired, but it appears there's more to the story than women's basketball and track under-performing. And yet, the two that were fired were arguably more aligned with ORU's values, than any other coaches in the athletic department. 

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The firing of Joe Dial makes no sense....you finally build the guy a track facility and then immediately chop off his legs by reducing his scholarships?????  the only coach in ORU history to win national championships (i think???).....can't wrap my head around that one.

To me, the writing was on the wall regarding ORUWBB.  in fact, pretty sure i posted that Mike Carter should have made changes with both ORUBase and WBB his final semester and allow the incoming AD to hire the replacements.

I do believe the AD deserves to have his people in place since he will ultimately be held responsible for the performance of the the athletic dept.

Hard to believe that after so badly botching the firing of Scott Sutton, ORU would find a way to screw up again when deciding how to move on from another long time head coach.

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2 hours ago, ORUalum said:

I do believe the AD deserves to have his people in place since he will ultimately be held responsible for the performance of the the athletic dept.

I think that's what the situation comes down to. Whenever a new AD comes in there is typically a lot of movement.

I don't know much about the situation with Coach Dial but I agree from what has been presented its seems very odd especially given the new facility.

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Good points, Alum & Dr. C.

And you are correct about the new AD getting to pick his own people. I totally get that. It just seems a bit arbitrary when you have a couple other tradition rich sports at ORU that haven't done much of anything in a decade and there is seemingly no movement there. Yet, two of the best people you'll ever meet get the axe and both of them get "miscommunicated" with...?

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Because there are always legal concerns related to terminations, rarely will we know the true reasons for a firing such as the straw that broke the camel’s back.  
 

When someone has been doing the same job in the same place for 20+ years, sometimes there is a tendency for that person to become complacent or comfortable and for the AD to think that they have seen what this person can do and if I want better results, then I need someone else in that role.  Obviously though there are many other things about a program you can improve besides who the head coach is if you want to see better results.  Also, I am not saying that the most recent firings were due to complacency, just making a general point.

 

I think it is good that there isn’t high turnover in coaching at ORU because to be fair you really need to give someone several years to fully evaluate what they can do.  If a coach brings in quality student athletes that fit the vision of ORU, represents the university well, and wins enough to still give you hope for the future, I don’t see a reason to let them go.  
 

A recent example is Ryan Folmar, who seems like another good fit for ORU.  I thought that speculation about him being let go earlier this year seemed very premature and indeed he came through with a Summit League Tournament Championship and NCAA Regional appearance.

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Good post, Jason. And, nothing I would disagree with. 

The only thing I'd add, is if you are going to release a long-time coach, that you are completely honest with him/her and that you have your replacement already selected, that you feel would be an improvement. 

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TheEagleman thinks that we can all agree that the communication at ORU and communication skills of some of our execs are not up to normal standards that would be expected from people at their level....,but honestly i guess it's not surprising because after having been in the business world for 45 years now I see this almost every day.....people rise to a level where they just don't deserve to be because they know somebody or do a great job of kissing butt and ride the coat tails of a buddy.....this sounds like it's probably the issue at ORU....people put in positions of leadership who may be very smart and have the degree but they just can't deal with everyday situations in a reasonable professional manner....negative things are not dealt with...feelings get hurt....assumptions are made and that kind of lack of communication is just appalling.....but it happens all over in everyday life whether it be business....family or sports.....TheEagleman also does not know Tim Johnson, Billy Wilson  or Joe Dial.....probably all good men but the lack of communication here is head scratching.....and it all reminds us a lot of the Scott Sutton debacle which was handled so poorly.....the people in charge clearly learned nothing from that and that was a situation that made our Alma Mater look very silly....it was embarrassing.....it was time for Scott Sutton to go just as it was probably time for Joe Dial to go....just handled so unprofessionally and apparently with a lack of honesty......TheEagleman though has always wondered why after more than 5 years that a man with the resume of Scott Sutton has never gotten another head coaching job.....clearly Scott is a good smart man with a ton of integrity and the all time winningest coach at a D-1 mid major university.....why would someone not give this man who is still in his prime another shot?  Communication skills?.....I don't know.....just throwing it out there.......and hopefully this Joe Dial situation creates some serious dialogue at the highest level at ORU about what is really important....honesty....integrity....doing things the right way at a Christian University.....because all this stuff out there on social media is REALLY EMBARRASSING and head scratching as an ORU Alum......please Billy Wilson and Tim Johnson....figure this out and don't let it happen again...I thought a lot of this stuff would be gone when Richard Roberts got the boot.......but apparently not..........🥺

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On 6/11/2022 at 11:17 AM, theeagleman5 said:

TheEagleman thinks that we can all agree that the communication at ORU and communication skills of some of our execs are not up to normal standards that would be expected from people at their level....,but honestly i guess it's not surprising because after having been in the business world for 45 years now I see this almost every day.....people rise to a level where they just don't deserve to be because they know somebody or do a great job of kissing butt and ride the coat tails of a buddy.....this sounds like it's probably the issue at ORU....people put in positions of leadership who may be very smart and have the degree but they just can't deal with everyday situations in a reasonable professional manner....negative things are not dealt with...feelings get hurt....assumptions are made and that kind of lack of communication is just appalling.....but it happens all over in everyday life whether it be business....family or sports.....TheEagleman also does not know Tim Johnson, Billy Wilson  or Joe Dial.....probably all good men but the lack of communication here is head scratching.....and it all reminds us a lot of the Scott Sutton debacle which was handled so poorly.....the people in charge clearly learned nothing from that and that was a situation that made our Alma Mater look very silly....it was embarrassing.....it was time for Scott Sutton to go just as it was probably time for Joe Dial to go....just handled so unprofessionally and apparently with a lack of honesty......TheEagleman though has always wondered why after more than 5 years that a man with the resume of Scott Sutton has never gotten another head coaching job.....clearly Scott is a good smart man with a ton of integrity and the all time winningest coach at a D-1 mid major university.....why would someone not give this man who is still in his prime another shot?  Communication skills?.....I don't know.....just throwing it out there.......and hopefully this Joe Dial situation creates some serious dialogue at the highest level at ORU about what is really important....honesty....integrity....doing things the right way at a Christian University.....because all this stuff out there on social media is REALLY EMBARRASSING and head scratching as an ORU Alum......please Billy Wilson and Tim Johnson....figure this out and don't let it happen again...I thought a lot of this stuff would be gone when Richard Roberts got the boot.......but apparently not..........🥺

One of your all-time best posts Eagleman!

Just be honest with people. Fully honest. 

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I found it extremely ironic that last week after that Joe Dial post went up that TheEagleman received a fundraiser letter from President Billy Wilson which talked about how great ORU is and the HONESTY and INTEGRITY needed from all of its' leaders.....I hope Tim Johnson read that same letter and Dr. Wilson is taking it to heart because something is wrong at 7777 So. Lewis....i surely do not know all the facts and don't have all the answers but better communication is needed at the highest levels if they want TheEagleman and others with a lot more money than me to pull out their checkbooks......other than that i really can't comment further on this subject....just hoping that all employees at ORU are treated fairly and with Honesty and Integrity.....🥺

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