Guest darrenjj Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Was just wondering where you thought Caleb ranked with Anthony Roberts and Richie Fuqua and the like. He will in all likelyhood be a 3 time conference player of the year at the end of his career. Not bad for a guy that most did not think good enough to play at other colleges in state!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Hard to compare apples to oranges. But here's my "All-Time" teams, first, second and third team: ALL-TIME FIRST TEAM POINT - Haywoode Workman SHOOTING GUARD - Richard Fuqua SMALL FORWARD - Anthony Roberts POWER FORWARD - Caleb Green CENTER - Mark Acres ALL-TIME SECOND TEAM POINT - Arnold Dugger SHOOTING GUARD - Tim Gill SMALL FORWARD - Calvin Garrett POWER FORWARD - Rocky Walls CENTER - David Vaughn ALL-TIME THIRD TEAM POINT - Cat Johnson SHOOTING GUARD - Greg Sutton SMALL FORWARD - Haywood Hill POWER FORWARD - Antonio Martin CENTER - Eddie Woods Geez, harder than it looks! No Ken Tutt? No Steve Bontrager? No Sam McCants? No Al Boswell? What about Reggie Borges, Ray Thompson, Eric Perry, Larry Owens, or Jeff Acres? Well - what do YOU think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU Eli Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 My man Earl is nowhere to be found either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 My man Earl is nowhere to be found either I know!! But look at those three point guards!! Who ya gonna sit? Also conspicuously absent: Luke Spencer-Gardner and Jonathan Bluitt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 You have a longer "horizon" with ORU basketball than many of us, EB, so I can hardly challenge your expertise. All three teams look like winners, but I agree with your question about those left off. I guess that's always a problem when coming up with "best of" lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORob1 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I just appreciate the Calvin Garrett reference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 ...perhaps this would help in the overall "who's best" comparison: I think you could shuffle the top three at all five positions and not lose much EXCEPT Anthony Roberts at the "3" and Caleb at the "4". That pair stands clearly above the rest at those two respective positions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darrenjj Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Fuqua was pretty darn good before his knees went bad, probably an NBA type of guy. I only saw Roberts in his mid 30's and he was pretty heavy but still a lot of talent. Those must have been some great teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Fuqua was pretty darn good before his knees went bad, probably an NBA type of guy. I only saw Roberts in his mid 30's and he was pretty heavy but still a lot of talent. Those must have been some great teams. ...with no disrespect intended toward Fuqua, I must say he was something of a product of Ken Trickey's "shoot 100 times a game" philosophy. It was not unusual for him to take 25 shots a game, and often he took 30-35. And he really wasn't expected to play defense - none of them did in those teams! But Anthony was special. The most recent local player that reminds me of him was Shea Seals at TU, but Anthony had a quicker first step and was a better outside shooter. He also was not afraid to drive baseline and go hard to the basket. If he hadn't gotten so caught up by the "recreational" temptations available to NBA players of that era with too much time and too much money, he might have been an all-star. Holy Cow!! Speaking of that era - how could I forget former Phoenix Sun mainstay and Anthony Roberts running buddy Alvin Scott? He goes into my 2nd team Power Forward slot, bumping Rocky Walls down to 3rd team and putting Antonio Martin on the "Honorable Mention" list. Used to love seeing Alvin block shots five or six rows into the Gold Section. Picture Larry Owens, with a better jump shot. Too many good players, not enough teams!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasgrip Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Gary "Cat" Johnson trumps Dugger to me... Everything else looks good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The player that is ORU's all-time top scorer, but is rarely mentioned when discussing best all-time players, is Greg Sutton. Granted, he was a product of the cursed NAIA years, but you can hardly dismiss his production. I wasn't really paying attention to ORU basketball in those years - could someone that was comment on how you think Greg shaped up and fit in with some of these others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blevins Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I wasn't here then, but he did play four seasons in the NBA if that tells you anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasgrip Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The player that is ORU's all-time top scorer, but is rarely mentioned when discussing best all-time players, is Greg Sutton. Greg was fun to watch, but I could have been ORU's all-time top scorer if I attempted 15 3-pointers/game, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Greg was fun to watch, but I could have been ORU's all-time top scorer if I attempted 15 3-pointers/game, too. His shooting percentages were not very good, and he was a ballhog extraordinaire, but he WAS a talent. And let's just say he loses style points for some VERY questionable personal habits during his time in school. Good thing we were below the radar in the NAIA and it was before the Internet/message board era - he and his bunch would have gotten the program in trouble for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Does Caleb Green rate having his jersey retired along with Richard Fuqua and Anthony Roberts? What about Mark Acres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darrenjj Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I think Caleb certainly deserves it. If they make the tourney next year and he wins the CPY again, there is no doubt. I think he will make a lot of $$ overseas for the next 10 years. I think you are looking at 20 to 25 wins next year and maybe a couple of big upsets on the money games that they schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsullyok Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Been watching ORU hoops since 1974, and have seen all these guys in person except Fuqua, who finished the year before I came to ORU. One problem with the setup of the teams is that it's hard to classify Anthony Roberts and Alvin Scott as "power" or "small" forwards. They were almost always in the game at the same time, and both were definitely forwards. T-Bone played "bigger" than Anthony, was a key defender and rebounder, and a seldom scorer. Roberts wasn't a post-up player like Caleb, and really played more like a small forward. But as far as I know, he had the longest NBA career of any ORU player - about a dozen solid seasons with Phoenix. Is a player's NBA career a criteria for greatness? Anthony Roberts had a mediocre NBA career (largely due to personal issues - I think if he had his life together then, he might have had a better NBA career). But it's clear he's one of the best two or three ever to play at ORU. I definitely think, based on his college impact alone, Caleb is an ORU all-time "first-teamer." But I think the chances of his playing in the NBA are slim. That doesn't negate his impact at the collegiate level, which is clearly a different game, maybe moreso than was true 30 years ago when Roberts and Scott played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleBackr Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Been watching ORU hoops since 1974, and have seen all these guys in person except Fuqua, who finished the year before I came to ORU. One problem with the setup of the teams is that it's hard to classify Anthony Roberts and Alvin Scott as "power" or "small" forwards. They were almost always in the game at the same time, and both were definitely forwards. T-Bone played "bigger" than Anthony, was a key defender and rebounder, and a seldom scorer. Roberts wasn't a post-up player like Caleb, and really played more like a small forward. But as far as I know, he had the longest NBA career of any ORU player - about a dozen solid seasons with Phoenix. Is a player's NBA career a criteria for greatness? Anthony Roberts had a mediocre NBA career (largely due to personal issues - I think if he had his life together then, he might have had a better NBA career). But it's clear he's one of the best two or three ever to play at ORU. I definitely think, based on his college impact alone, Caleb is an ORU all-time "first-teamer." But I think the chances of his playing in the NBA are slim. That doesn't negate his impact at the collegiate level, which is clearly a different game, maybe moreso than was true 30 years ago when Roberts and Scott played. As you say, they were both on the floor at the same time, with Anthony on the wing or baseline at the "3" (small forward) spot and Alvin at the "4" ("power forward" post position on the opposite block or baseline). By definition, I would classify Anthony as a "3" (small forward) rather than a "2" (shooting guard), because he did play most of the time below the free throw line and he did crash the boards for offensive rebounds, and I would categorize Alvin as a "4" (power forward) because he rarely played face-up on the wing - usually had his back to the basket in the post, or crashed from the offside baseline. The main presence in the post on those teams were centers Harold Johnson (remember his sky hook?) and bruiser Willis Collins. Alvin's offensive game down low and at the high post was very different from Caleb's in that he was more of a "pivot-and-fadeaway" shooter, where Caleb is all about spinning quick and getting to the rim as hard as possible. Two different styles, but both very good players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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