ORU at OSU

[theeagleman5]

Any chance we can call So. Nazarene, Nebraska Christian and E. Texas Baptist and get them to agree to a home and home this year???...

[vcboy2000]

I’ve made my peace with Coach Sutton & the previous leadership of the program. I’m happy things worked out for him in the end, and am glad we now have fresh blood in the program that can hopefully get things going in the right direction. 

[ORUParentLurker]

20 minutes ago, ORU82 said:

None of this is on Mills.  Tonight we were shown just how far into the tank the team has gone the past several years.  Thank the previous staff for taking us there.  It is going to take time and it will be a heavy lift.  But, given time we will succeed.  Go Golden Eagles!

You weren't convinced last year?

 

Honestly,  watching these guys up close there is plenty of talent.  Basketball teams aren't a sum of their parts.  Mills is trying to establish a culture and he is also trying to figure out what these guys are best doing.  They will keep working and will definitely get better.  

[ORU2017grad]

New to the board.  Some observations of the team and tonight's game:  1). Our guards are too small to compete against the D1 teams we will face first semester (OSU Arkansas K state, Fl Gulf Coast penn st and etc).   2) we only have one perimeter shooter (Ruder) who is even a threat 3) our PF's range is 5 feet and in.  OSU backed off of Eman & Javan when they were beyond 5 ft and dared us to shoot. Javan went Tasmanian devil spin move a half dozen times and couldn't buy a bucket.  4) Albert produces if he is allowed to turn to the right and shoot over right shoulder.  Bigger post don't allow that to happen so he is not always productive.  Albert would excel if our PF's could shoot at all and make defenses stretch out and guard them.  I am afraid teams will continue to pack it in against Albert.  Gonna be a long first semester against several teams we won't be able to compete with.  Hopefully we will be prepared for conference and aren't mentally defeated before conference games start.

[Old Titan]

7 hours ago, ORU2017grad said:

New to the board.  Some observations of the team and tonight's game:  1). Our guards are too small to compete against the D1 teams we will face first semester (OSU Arkansas K state, Fl Gulf Coast penn st and etc).   2) we only have one perimeter shooter (Ruder) who is even a threat 3) our PF's range is 5 feet and in.  OSU backed off of Eman & Javan when they were beyond 5 ft and dared us to shoot. Javan went Tasmanian devil spin move a half dozen times and couldn't buy a bucket.  4) Albert produces if he is allowed to turn to the right and shoot over right shoulder.  Bigger post don't allow that to happen so he is not always productive.  Albert would excel if our PF's could shoot at all and make defenses stretch out and guard them.  I am afraid teams will continue to pack it in against Albert.  Gonna be a long first semester against several teams we won't be able to compete with.  Hopefully we will be prepared for conference and aren't mentally defeated before conference games start.

I really enjoyed your post.  Looking forward to more!

[EagleManiac]

8 hours ago, ORU2017grad said:

New to the board.  Some observations of the team and tonight's game:  1). Our guards are too small to compete against the D1 teams we will face first semester (OSU Arkansas K state, Fl Gulf Coast penn st and etc).   2) we only have one perimeter shooter (Ruder) who is even a threat 3) our PF's range is 5 feet and in.  OSU backed off of Eman & Javan when they were beyond 5 ft and dared us to shoot. Javan went Tasmanian devil spin move a half dozen times and couldn't buy a bucket.  4) Albert produces if he is allowed to turn to the right and shoot over right shoulder.  Bigger post don't allow that to happen so he is not always productive.  Albert would excel if our PF's could shoot at all and make defenses stretch out and guard them.  I am afraid teams will continue to pack it in against Albert.  Gonna be a long first semester against several teams we won't be able to compete with.  Hopefully we will be prepared for conference and aren't mentally defeated before conference games start.

Good observations. You're spot on about our bigs. If the defense can keep them pushed out from the basket, they're useless. I think they'll have more success against smaller Summit League teams that aren't able to matchup physically. I also think it will help when our guards are able to more effectively handle pressure. OSU's defense had our guards working from way beyond the 3 point line. The big guys had to come out from the block if they wanted any chance to touch the ball.

[ORU2017grad]

Thank you for the kind replies.  I have a couple more observations ... I reviewed the season stats last night and after three games our two PF's that play the majority of the time have not hit a three this year!  Let me repeat have not hit a three this year (Eman 0-9 and Javan 0-0).  The result of this is having a huge impact on our team and especially Albert our best player.  Albert has less space to work because we are not stretching defenses to make them cover the perimeter.  College basketball is so physical these days that it is very hard to operate with two post players on the floor at a time because the lane is too congested.  Teams that are successful with two low post players have great perimeter shooters unlike ORU who has Ruder at 33% & Kearns at 18%.  We are shooting 25% from 3 as a team.  Why don't we give the Sutton kid a chance to play at the 3 or even move Eman permanently to the 3 and have Javan split time at the 4 with the Manek kid who I saw play in high school and is a really good shooter ?  Manek is 2-3 from 3 on the season in only 9 minutes of play?  If you want to use defense as a reason to not play Sutton or Manek thats laughable.  We lost by 40 points last night?  Can it get any worse?   I will quit my rambling.  

[Old Titan]

Neither Sutton or Manek is athletic enough to guard 90% (more?) of the D-1 players at their respective positions.  I fail to see the logic in playing them just to shoot threes, then giving up a dunk on the other end when they can't get back in transition following a miss.

While the offense has struggled the last two games, I don't think that's going to be the problem on most nights.

Once again, the problem is the defense, particularly on the road:  giving up too many uncontested threes, drives to the rim, and extra-pass interior bunnies.

Not going to beat ANYONE giving up 90 points a game!

[ORUParentLurker]

Its still a very small sample to size to start declaring what guys can and can't do.  Its also a cop out to say "there isn't talent so we are destined to suck".  Rudder and Kearns have been high percentage shooters elsewhere.  It does take a while to figure out where the shots are coming from and get into a rythm. Harris is very athletic getting to the basket and is a good defender.  As he gets his legs back he will help.  The bigs including Eman have not capitalized on one-on-one opportunities at a high rate.

All that being said I think the issues have been more about defense.  The offense was getting nice looks off of stops against OSU.  They are able to push the ball and get into early offense.  The problem is giving up a very high percentage shooting against AND offensive rebounds.  No offense is great taking the ball out of the hoop every time.  In order to be good on defense you either need to be really long and athletic and aggressive... or be very, very disciplined and organized.  We clearly need to be the disciplined type this season based on the lack of depth and wing defenders.  Unfortunately, we've only seen glimpses of good defense so far.  There was a stretch against OSU where the zone was very effective and forced difficult shots.  Then we had a rough stretch where assignments were blown and open shots rained in.  Its discouraging but all hope is not lost.  These guys can get A LOT better.

Once again lack of size can be a disadvantage but that is not the reason you are giving up uncontested shots, layups and dunks.  Basketball is about staying in front of guys and smaller, quicker players can do that just fine.  Plenty of small guards have won DPOY awards in college.  We have the size up front to be better at rebounding than we have been.

[Idig32]

1 hour ago, Old Titan said:

Neither Sutton or Manek is athletic enough to guard 90% (more?) of the D-1 players at their respective positions.  I fail to see the logic in playing them just to shoot threes, then giving up a dunk on the other end when they can't get back in transition following a miss.

While the offense has struggled the last two games, I don't think that's going to be the problem on most nights.

Once again, the problem is the defense, particularly on the road:  giving up too many uncontested threes, drives to the rim, and extra-pass interior bunnies.

Not going to beat ANYONE giving up 90 points a game!

I think our defense is better than this though. Bad offense leads to bad defense and vice versa. You get into a bad cycle when you have bad ball movement, leading to zero paint touches, leading to bad shooting. This leads to long rebounds and a scramble to get back on defense. The result is Ruder picking up Averette, and bad match ups all around. When we were hanging in there early, our offense was getting the ball inside with crisp passing. We had paint touches every time down (not shooting in the paint necessarily, literally just the ball moved into the paint area. When OSU turned up the pressure, our guards didn't turn it over a ton, but no one helped them attack the defense and we stopped getting paint touches. 

What we did last night was dribble around the half court circle for 20 seconds, then finally Owens or Nzekwesi or White would set a ball screen. By then, there wasn't time to move the ball for a good shot. Our bigs should have understood that they needed to set screens on ball early and often. Our guards needed to attack more against the pressure. Force the defense to make a play if they're going to get a stop. Our guards almost over protected the ball, but I guess Mills didn't want them getting caught up in a fast paced game. 

OSU will surprise people I think. Their defense is really good and that'll keep them in most games. I think ORU can learn from this. The effort has been really good.  My guess is there will be a game soon where things will start to click and they'll beat a team we didn't think they could. Then they will use it as a springboard to a top 4 finish in conference. Maybe I am too optimistic though...

[ORUParentLurker]

2 minutes ago, Idig32 said:

I think our defense is better than this though. Bad offense leads to bad defense and vice versa. You get into a bad cycle when you have bad ball movement, leading to zero paint touches, leading to bad shooting. This leads to long rebounds and a scramble to get back on defense. The result is Ruder picking up Averette, and bad match ups all around. When we were hanging in there early, our offense was getting the ball inside with crisp passing. We had paint touches every time down (not shooting in the paint necessarily, literally just the ball moved into the paint area. When OSU turned up the pressure, our guards didn't turn it over a ton, but no one helped them attack the defense and we stopped getting paint touches. 

What we did last night was dribble around the half court circle for 20 seconds, then finally Owens or Nzekwesi or White would set a ball screen. By then, there wasn't time to move the ball for a good shot. Our bigs should have understood that they needed to set screens on ball early and often. Our guards needed to attack more against the pressure. Force the defense to make a play if they're going to get a stop. Our guards almost over protected the ball, but I guess Mills didn't want them getting caught up in a fast paced game. 

OSU will surprise people I think. Their defense is really good and that'll keep them in most games. I think ORU can learn from this. The effort has been really good.  My guess is there will be a game soon where things will start to click and they'll beat a team we didn't think they could. Then they will use it as a springboard to a top 4 finish in conference. Maybe I am too optimistic though...

I agree.  Every time we got an early high ball screen we got a good look.  OSU was doubling off the screen and we handled it very well.  I'm not sure why they stopped coming out high to screen.  Mills has his work cut out keeping the confidence level high enough to keep improving.

[ORU2017grad]

I agree that better defense is part of the solution.  However; when you are losing by 40 plus to OSU & Wichita St and only scoring in the 40's offense is a big problem as well.  If I remember correctly we only scored in the low 50's against a D2 Rogers State team.  Speaking of defense Its not like Ruder, RJ or Kearns are standout defensive players.  Their size and athletic ability are alot of the reason why we are getting lit up on the perimeter.  I know RJ had 9 steals against Avila (NAIA) but he has only one steal in the other two games (both D1).  Bottom line is I am not saying that Sutton and Manek should be playing 75% of the time and be on the court at the same time but I believe there is some level of playing time that is warranted where we actually have shooters on the floor and the lane opened up for Big Al to operate.  I also believe The Summit league is one of the most unathletic D1 conferences so being a little more offensive at times may work in our favor.  

[ORUParentLurker]

13 minutes ago, ORU2017grad said:

I agree that better defense is part of the solution.  However; when you are losing by 40 plus to OSU & Wichita St and only scoring in the 40's offense is a big problem as well.  If I remember correctly we only scored in the low 50's against a D2 Rogers State team.  Speaking of defense Its not like Ruder, RJ or Kearns are standout defensive players.  Their size and athletic ability are alot of the reason why we are getting lit up on the perimeter.  I know RJ had 9 steals against Avila (NAIA) but he has only one steal in the other two games (both D1).  Bottom line is I am not saying that Sutton and Manek should be playing 75% of the time and be on the court at the same time but I believe there is some level of playing time that is warranted where we actually have shooters on the floor and the lane opened up for Big Al to operate.  I also believe The Summit league is one of the most unathletic D1 conferences so being a little more offensive at times may work in our favor.  

You might be right.  However, most coaches are going to look at defense first and Mills has professed to be a defense-first coach.  I'm pretty sure our small guards are better defensive players than Sutton and Manek.  You don't want the opposing guards living in the paint.

[Dr. Cornelius]

I think Kearns and Ruder give us the best chance to stretch the defense. They have shot too well at their previous stops for this to be an ongoing slump.

It’s only 2 D1 games in - a whole lot of basketball left. Hopefully the guys shake off last night and don’t think about it again.

[Old Titan]

3 hours ago, Idig32 said:

OSU will surprise people I think. Their defense is really good and that'll keep them in most games.

Which is kinda what I was sayin'...

If you have a poor offense, you can generate points off your defense by causing turnovers, pressuring the ball deep into the shot clock, forcing poor shots, and limiting the offense to one shot by rebounding.

Conversely (or, in addition), if you have a poor defense, you can help while on offense by limiting turnovers, taking good shots, working the clock, and crashing the glass for offensive rebounds (when it's prudent to do so).

[Old Titan]

Ya know, for all my ranting about Spencer Sutton being on the team, it's really hard not to like the guy:  he stuck around, he's worked hard to get in shape in the off-season, and he holds his own when he's on the floor. 

Plus, he seems to have a great attitude (something I've never been accused of...LOL).

[ORU2017grad]

To be honest this might be the worst OSU team in several years.  They will get better on Monday if Carroll is allowed to play as media reports are reporting but they are picked last in the Big 12 for a reason.  Also Kearns and Ruder won't stretch anything when you have ineffective 4 men and their defenders clogging the lane for Albert.  It appears we are in for a long season.

[Old Titan]

8 minutes ago, ORU2017grad said:

To be honest this might be the worst OSU team in several years.  They will get better on Monday if Carroll is allowed to play as media reports are reporting but they are picked last in the Big 12 for a reason.  Also Kearns and Ruder won't stretch anything when you have ineffective 4 men and their defenders clogging the lane for Albert.  It appears we are in for a long season.

This OSU team is a lot better than people think.  They play with that same 40-minutes-of-hell style that Brad Underwood had with Boynton at SFA, and that he brought to OSU last year.  This team will simply wear people out all year.

NO ONE in the Big XII is going to look forward to coming to GIA this year.  I predict only 2-3 home losses in conference for the Cowboys (KU, OU and maybe TCU), and they don't play a true road game til second week of January.  They will win 20+ games and either get in the dance on the bubble, or be a very respectable seed in the NIT.

"AND, DON'T SLEEP ON OKLAHOMA, EITHER!!" (LOL) - Trae Young really is special; they are a bona fide Big XII contender this season with him at the helm.