Bad Blood Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well, I too stream games on an almost-daily basis, from a variety of sources, on a variety of devices, and I just don't have the same issues, at least not nearly on the scale that you seem to have them. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I can't speak for the folks that made the decision to pursue ESPN3, but I doubt they would have gone in that direction if they (heck, if most people in the year 2014) experienced the widespread internet issues that seem to plague you on a daily basis. While I have addressed your major qualm with the move to ESPN3, thoroughly and repeatedly, you have never addressed the major benefit: Moving to ESPN3 exposes ORU basketball to a much wider audience. Instead of being on the lowest, least-watched cable television network available (one whose ratings are so low that they don't even bother to be rated by Nielsen), ORU basketball is now carried by the most-watched sports streaming service in the country, side-by-side with the most popular games of the day. There is little doubt that far more people will be able to watch ORU basketball this season than in years past, and it would go a long way in your favor for you to acknowledge that. If suffering an occasional video performance issue (or, in your infinitesimally-rare case, wholesale failure on every single device during every viewing) is the tradeoff to receiving an significantly greater audience, well, I think most people would take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevy Chase Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I also want to reiterate that the games will still be tape delayed on GEB and KGEB at 11 pm. CDT so they can be recorded, DVR'd, and stored for eternity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well, I too stream games on an almost-daily basis, from a variety of sources, on a variety of devices, and I just don't have the same issues, at least not nearly on the scale that you seem to have them. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I can't speak for the folks that made the decision to pursue ESPN3, but I doubt they would have gone in that direction if they (heck, if most people in the year 2014) experienced the widespread internet issues that seem to plague you on a daily basis. While I have addressed your major qualm with the move to ESPN3, thoroughly and repeatedly, you have never addressed the major benefit: Moving to ESPN3 exposes ORU basketball to a much wider audience. Instead of being on the lowest, least-watched cable television network available (one whose ratings are so low that they don't even bother to be rated by Nielsen), ORU basketball is now carried by the most-watched sports streaming service in the country, side-by-side with the most popular games of the day. There is little doubt that far more people will be able to watch ORU basketball this season than in years past, and it would go a long way in your favor for you to acknowledge that. If suffering an occasional video performance issue (or, in your infinitesimally-rare case, wholesale failure on every single device during every viewing) is the tradeoff to receiving an significantly greater audience, well, I think most people would take it. We're going to have to "agree to disagree" on the "wider audience" issue, as well. While I agree that broadcasting ORU Basketball games on ESPN3 theoretically makes them more accessable to potential viewers than on FCS, I question whether many "viewers" beyond ORU fans will actually do so, because few will stumble onto the game the way they would a cable broadcast. I will conceed there is little argument that ESPN3 availability will benefit ORU fans who are capable and willing to make the effort, though I find it hard to imagine that number isn't considerably smaller than those who would watch it on cable (ie. the digitally-challenged have just been left by the side of the road). Let's say I open two restaurants: one on the main drag of a small town; the other on the back alley of a big city. The big city location theoretically has the potential of drawing more customers because of the surrounding population, but few people may never actually visit (or, if they do, may not come back as often) for a variety of reasons, including lack of visibility, more competition, difficulties in getting there, etc. It is most likely that their only customers will be those "Raving Fans" who go out of their way to do so. The small town location may outperform the other store because it's easily accessible, a bigger fish in a smaller pond, and always top-of-mind because of its visibility, albeit in a smaller universe. Its main shortcoming is that it's not physically accessible by a larger audience. Again, I wish/hope there are some sort of metrics made available after the season, indicating how many viewers actually watched the ORU live streaming broadcasts on ESPN3. I'm guessing the numbers will be just slightly more than those who for years have subscribed to ELIve from the ORU Athletics website, which I would imagine is a fraction of the audience that nightly tunes in to even "the lowest, least-watched cable television networks" such as FCS. And, if I'm wrong, I will be the FIRST to admit it...let's just see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well, first-off, it's going to be impossible to fully measure the FCS-to-ESPN3 audience, because (as I said earlier) FCS does not even bother to publish ratings. Second, I just don't agree with the back-alley comparison. ORU games will be in the same queue and the same menus as every other game that ESPN is showing that night, including games featuring Kansas, Duke, OU, OSU, North Carolina, etc. Games are ordered by time, not fan-base or quality of matchup. And featured games with graphics highlighting their presence include every game on the ESPN3 schedule, not just the night's best matchups) (Quick aside: if I can remove my ORU fan hat for a moment, this lack of extra promotion for the top-tier games is one little gripe that I actually have with ESPN3. When I go there to watch Kansas vs. OU, it's no easier to access than games I care nothing about. But this actually helps ORU games; they won't be "hidden" from any ESPN3 viewers) So any fan that goes to ESPN3 is going to see ORU games featured prominently, and since more people access ESPN3 than FCS (trust me, they do), it's almost a given than there will be more viewers this season by far. Plus factor in the preemptions. Then add the tape-delayed GEB broadcasts for re-airs and DVR viewers. And what you get is a clear upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevy Chase Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 We're going to have to "agree to disagree" on the "wider audience" issue, as well. While I agree that broadcasting ORU Basketball games on ESPN3 theoretically makes them more accessable to potential viewers than on FCS, I question whether many "viewers" beyond ORU fans will actually do so, because few will stumble onto the game the way they would a cable broadcast. I will conceed there is little argument that ESPN3 availability will benefit ORU fans who are capable and willing to make the effort, though I find it hard to imagine that number isn't considerably smaller than those who would watch it on cable (ie. the digitally-challenged have just been left by the side of the road). Let's say I open two restaurants: one on the main drag of a small town; the other on the back alley of a big city. The big city location theoretically has the potential of drawing more customers because of the surrounding population, but few people may never actually visit (or, if they do, may not come back as often) for a variety of reasons, including lack of visibility, more competition, difficulties in getting there, etc. It is most likely that their only customers will be those "Raving Fans" who go out of their way to do so. The small town location may outperform the other store because it's easily accessible, a bigger fish in a smaller pond, and always top-of-mind because of its visibility, albeit in a smaller universe. Its main shortcoming is that it's not physically accessible by a larger audience. Again, I wish/hope there are some sort of metrics made available after the season, indicating how many viewers actually watched the ORU live streaming broadcasts on ESPN3. I'm guessing the numbers will be just slightly more than those who for years have subscribed to ELIve from the ORU Athletics website, which I would imagine is a fraction of the audience that nightly tunes in to even "the lowest, least-watched cable television networks" such as FCS. And, if I'm wrong, I will be the FIRST to admit it...let's just see how it plays out. This sounds like the Simple Simon's Pizza theory! ESPN3 is the "big city" but not a back alley. I would argue that those who subscribe to ESPN Full Court or are looking for other games on the ESPN app could still see ORU on the menu of games and tune in. On the flip side, your "main drag" FCS is not a main drag when the games are preempted. I'll take the guaranteed coverage instead of the "I hope we're not preempted" coverage. I'm sure our friends around the country who are counting on seeing the TU/ORU game appreciate the security of knowing where to find it and knowing that it won't be preempted by some east coast game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well, first-off, it's going to be impossible to fully measure the FCS-to-ESPN3 audience, because (as I said earlier) FCS does not even bother to publish ratings. Second, I just don't agree with the back-alley comparison. ORU games will be in the same queue and the same menus as every other game that ESPN is showing that night, including games featuring Kansas, Duke, OU, OSU, North Carolina, etc. Games are ordered by time, not fan-base or quality of matchup. And featured games with graphics highlighting their presence include every game on the ESPN3 schedule, not just the night's best matchups) (Quick aside: if I can remove my ORU fan hat for a moment, this lack of extra promotion for the top-tier games is one little gripe that I actually have with ESPN3. When I go there to watch Kansas vs. OU, it's no easier to access than games I care nothing about. But this actually helps ORU games; they won't be "hidden" from any ESPN3 viewers) So any fan that goes to ESPN3 is going to see ORU games featured prominently, and since more people access ESPN3 than FCS (trust me, they do), it's almost a given than there will be more viewers this season by far. Plus factor in the preemptions. Then add the tape-delayed GEB broadcasts for re-airs and DVR viewers. And what you get is a clear upgrade. For those of you who are by now no doubt thinking, "Geez, what is the freaking point?", I would remind you that the impetus of this whole debate was the so-called "Big News" build-up a couple of weeks back. Based on Chevy Chase's insightful posts many days AFTER the "Big News" came out, I must honestly admit that if I had seen an initial announcement that sounded a little more like the following, I doubt I would have had much to complain about: "Hey ORU basketball fans, FCS was fine in theory for ORU broadcasts, but they pre-empted our games several times last year and might do the same this year, so we're instead going to have a larger number of games available this year through ESPN3, which may be a challange initially for some of you to access online, but will insure that more games are guaranteed to be available. We hope you will tune in on your home computer, laptop, tablet, or smart phone - please visit our "Frequently Asked Questions About ESPN3 Viewing" page on the ORU Athletics website for details on accessing the broadcasts." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevy Chase Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Although I certainly had nothing to do with the "Big News" post, I believe moving from a difficult to find network that preempts games to the largest sports network in the world that will show ALL games qualifies as "big news," FAQ or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Although I certainly had nothing to do with the "Big News" post, I believe moving from a difficult to find network that preempts games to the largest sports network in the world that will show ALL games qualifies as "big news," FAQ or not! LOL - and I would contend that "Big News", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 For those of you who are by now no doubt thinking, "Geez, what is the freaking point?", I would remind you that the impetus of this whole debate was the so-called "Big News" build-up a couple of weeks back. Based on Chevy Chase's insightful posts many days AFTER the "Big News" came out, I must honestly admit that if I had seen an initial announcement that sounded a little more like the following, I doubt I would have had much to complain about: "Hey ORU basketball fans, FCS was fine in theory for ORU broadcasts, but they pre-empted our games several times last year and might do the same this year, so we're instead going to have a larger number of games available this year through ESPN3, which may be a challange initially for some of you to access online, but will insure that more games are guaranteed to be available. We hope you will tune in on your home computer, laptop, tablet, or smart phone - please visit our "Frequently Asked Questions About ESPN3 Viewing" page on the ORU Athletics website for details on accessing the broadcasts." You really wanted an official press release to start with "Hey ORU basketball fans"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 FCS is not a difficult to find network IMO. It is on my DirectTV program guide and easily accessible if you have the sports package. If you don't have the sports package then get it and FCS will be accessible. There are steps involved either way, so I don't think ESPN3 is more accessible. However, for those who use online streaming as a preferred method to traditional cable TV, then yes it is more accessible. There will probably not be a way to quantifiably say whether one is better than the other as far as viewership is concerned. I hope ESPN3 ends up being a great choice, but "viewers" are not going to stumble upon ESPN3 and start watching an ORU basketball game like they may have with FCS. They are going to have to want to go to ESPN3 in the first place and then choose between a large number of online streaming options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You really wanted an official press release to start with "Hey ORU basketball fans"? I literally laughed out loud when I read that - I hope it was intended to be funny. Yeah, sure: I'm going to write a press release consisting entirely of a first-person run-on sentence, beginning with "Hey, ORU basketball fans!" Better yet, I'm going to start it with: "BIG NEWS!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 TheEagleman has no problem finding FCS on his cable....it's right next to the TVG Horse Racing Channel.....Bring on the Breeders Cup!......Do you like Shared Belief, California Chrome or Bayern in the Classic?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 FYI... it's not exactly a point in FCS's favor that a group of the most die-hard ORU fans on the planet have "no problem finding FCS on (their) cable"... Of course none of YOU have a problem finding it. You had four years of going out of your way to find it because they televised your favorite team's games. It's like a local saying they have no problem finding some hole-in-the-wall diner that's six turns away from the closest major road. Of course YOU don't have a problem. You've been searching it out since you were a kid. The folks passing through town on the interstate, though... they have no idea the place exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 LOL.....guess TheEagleman will be watching the games on his computer.....its just that i have this really nice 55 inch Samsung HDTV and my computer is only 21 inches....ah.....but I guess size doesn't really matter...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 $35. Chromecast. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 it seems to me: casual potential stumble upon an ORU game while watching TV -- live on GEB (one or 2 clicks from FoxNews on DirecTV) >> FCS (channel 1245 or whatever it is) >> ESPN3 (online only) now, whether someone actually stops and watches is another issue. ESPN3 gives you the ESPN brand and a much larger potential audience, but all the free FCS replays and games live on DirecTV are now gone. we will see how it plays out, but as an out of town fan i will find the games and watch. the bigger issue to me is still all the fans that dress up as gold chairbacks and are in the direct line of sight of the TV camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Who on earth is watching Hannity on a Thursday night and then decides to watch low-major basketball instead based on channel proximity? That's a whole different crowd, buddy, for a lot of reasons (none of which have to do with politics, so don't think I'm going down that road). I can assure you that making their programming more accessible to Fox News viewers isn't what ANY sports marketer considers when they choose what to do with their content. What's more likely: that Gert in Birmingham flips from O'Reilly to ORU vs. IPFW because it's two channels away, or that a hardcore college basketball fan queues up the same game on his iPad during halftime of the KU vs. Texas game? Boggles my mind that anybody would choose the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 go back and read my post. it seems to me: casual potential stumble upon an ORU game while watching TV -- live on GEB (one or 2 clicks from FoxNews on DirecTV) >> FCS (channel 1245 or whatever it is) >> ESPN3 (online only) now, whether someone actually stops and watches is another issue. i don't care where it's on the dial or online, i'll find it. the problem for the athletic dept (which i'm assuming includes you and chevy) is getting butts in seats. that's the problem, not how the 1,000 or so hardcore ORU fans across the country that will go out of their way to watch the game find it. it seems every time i flip past the BYU channel i see some sporting event. whether one stops or not that provides brand awareness. as opposed to every time i have ever flipped past GEB on a tv with DirecTV there is some guy trying to separate me from my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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