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Are we entering the Dark Ages of ORU Basketball?


lamb740

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Hey Eagle....+1 for the post above!.... :clap:

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TheEagleman agrees that it may take a couple weeks for this team to jell.....we have some difficult road games ahead and only a couple of home games prior to the ball dropping on New Year's in Times Square......but I would say that I expect this team to round into form by early December and certainly be ready to take on TU in the Pre-Christmas Classic......we have a couple of budding young stars on this team and a really good guard coming in next year in Lee...Dark Ages?....when is the last time that ORU got a player who was also considering Creighton, FSU and Arkansas?......enough said..... :nerd:

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In fairness, don't we have a thread like this pretty much every season?

We could probably just have an "Annual ORU early-season-loss freakout thread".

Our program seems to be perennially a group of misfit parts that must be thrown out into live game action before we know we've got. 6 out of 8 years, those teams have played in the postseason.

Even in the middle of the Green/Tutt golden era, in a month's time, we lost to Loyola Marymount and Chattanooga, beat Kansas, then turned around and lost by 20 to below-average TU.

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Good points there, Maniac......ORU always loses a couple of early season games that send us all into suicide watch......not going to panic over a defeat at UTEP......hopefully, the boys will bounce back at Pacific on Monday night.....TheEagleman would be euphoric if we can win 3 of 4 next week but will happily settle for 2-2..if we face OU with a 3-3 record that's not bad....but 4-2 would be even better..... :nerd:

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  • 3 months later...

I'm afraid my original thesis has come to fruition: with a loss to RPI #280 Central Arkansas to finish the regular season, we have officially entered the Dark Ages of ORU basketball.

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While things aren't looking good for this season, I admit....TheEagleman can't say that the cupboard is totally empty for the next year and beyond with a lineup of Roundtree, Byford, Billbury, Jackson, Lee, Kaufman, Conley, Glover, and Emi.......we could use another big guy in the next year....but we are in good shape at guard and small forward....and it's not like ORU is competing in the SEC or anything..... :nerd:

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Liberty is 15-20 this year currently with a 292 RPI and yet they are headed to the NCAA tournament out of the Big South (that Mike Minyard hire is really paying off) after taking 3 straight in the Big South Tournament.  They are only the 2nd team ever with 20 or more losses to make the NCAA tournament.  That tells you that anything is possible if ORU can pull together and focus their efforts in order to maximize their talents.

 

There is no doubt that this year's ORU team is inconsistent and at times baffling, yet they are very talented.  I thought with Roundtree back that we would handle Central Arkansas easily because UCA didn't hardly attempt to play defense in the game earlier this season at the Mabee Center.  While UCA has a poor record, they have warmed up lately winning their last 4 games.  Their last loss was by 29 points at ORU.  While I don't know if Corliss Williamson was on the hot seat or not, with a cumulative 3 year record of 26-61, a win like last night's may help save Corliss Williamson's job for another year.

 

I am wondering why Manghum started yesterday and played 26 minutes while Brandon Conley only played one minute.  I especially can't understand why Manghum starts and Bilbury doesn't.  It almost seems as if there is something not right with this team from a chemistry standpoint or that Scott is having to send messages to his players by making some lineup decisions that don't make sense.  Manghum provides a veteran presence, is a decent 3-point shooter and doesn't commit many fouls, but from a stat sheet perspective, I don't know what he has done to earn a start and 26 minutes of playing time.

 

Earlier in the year Conley started several games and made some nice contributions.  He seemed to be improving with each game.  Now he's hardly seeing the court.  

 

At times this team seems really good, and at other times they revert to "not playing smart."  They stop playing defense and get away from working the ball down low to DBH, Roundtree, and Glover.  When we start shooting and missing a bunch of jump shots and stop playing defense, like we did in the 2nd half vs. Tulsa, we become a below average team that is very capable of losing to ANYONE.  

 

It is hard to know what is keeping this team from reaching their potential, but I think it is a mixture of some type of team chemistry issue that Scott referred to earlier this season as certain players playing selfishly and has possibly resulted in Roundtree's suspension, Conley only playing 1 minute, both DJ and Korey coming off the bench, and the team losing their focus once they get big leads.

 

If this team gets it together and plays unselfishly with a focus level like they had against Weber St., they can beat NW St. and SFA.  I do believe that if we had hit a couple shots and won the Weber St. game, we wouldn't have lost to McNeese or UCA, and we would feel totally differently about this team at 21-10 instead of 18-13.  I hope to be talking in a week or so about our 21-13 team and hoping that we can avoid playing in a play-in game in the NCAA tournament.  We will see how things turn out but I am still expecting the best.

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I'm no Pollyanna, but to relegate this team, and anything related to their performance now or the recent past, to the "dark ages" is ludicrous.  Let's not let disappointment get blown out of proportion.

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Yeah...if Liberty can make the tournament after starting something like 1-10.....ORU could certainly make it....but TheEagleman isn't counting on it....we just can't seem to put a good 40 minutes together this season...... :nerd:

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I wonder what we would call it if ORU had to undertake a major rebuilding project and actually suffered a losing season? The apocalypse of ORU basketball?

The young group we have now WILL play in multiple NCAA tournaments. Write that down.

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If I had the opportunity to see Corbin Byford and Jordan Kaufman make significant contributions this year I would agree with you ManiacAlum. Certainly Dederick Lee, Bilbury, Glover, Roundtree, Emegano, and DJ have a bright future and I expect good things, but the multiple NCAA tournament prediction is bold. I hope you are right.

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If I had the opportunity to see Corbin Byford and Jordan Kaufman make significant contributions this year I would agree with you ManiacAlum. Certainly Dederick Lee, Bilbury, Glover, Roundtree, Emegano, and DJ have a bright future and I expect good things, but the multiple NCAA tournament prediction is bold. I hope you are right.

 

You're absolutely right and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. The maturity of these young guys and adapting their skills to be successfule at the college level will be key. Also developing, or finding, some bigs will have to happen.

 

If Lee is as good as advertised, we should have a loaded, but small, backcourt. Emegano was already on the way to becoming a perennial all-conference player.

 

Hopefully these guys wont leave me hanging out here on this limb.

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it's not the dark ages, but you can't deny it's a big step backwards.  the season is almost over and Coach Sutton still can't name a permanent starter at point guard.  it's tough for the PGs to not know if they will be starting or barely playing from game to game which has happened to all three of them during the course of the season.  the defense has also declined this year.  it's the end of the season and they still can't slow down the dribble drive. they are also lacking in basketball intangibles -- defensive pride, toughness, basketball IQ, and leadership.

 

i hope you are right about multiple trips to the tournament, but if the coaches don't address the intangibles i'm not seeing it.  talent wise 1 through 7, ORU is as good as anyone in the league and thus far it has resulted in a disappointing season and a sputtering end of the regular season.

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You don't coach the intangibles (toughness, basketball IQ, leadership, etc.) - you recruit it. I can tell you that adding Obi Emegano to the playing roster next year will help in all of those categories. Let's hope he can rub off on the other players.

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All of those issues have been true since 2008. We haven't been a very good defensive team and the starting PG position has always seemingly been an open audition. If it hadn't, we would not be in the position now to ask two freshmen to lead this team. I think better team defense is something that can be taught, and I agree that hopefully some that leadership will come from guys like Emegano. I also think a lot will change this summer when there will be time for some individual improvement. Hopefully, I think that transition will establish some ownership and pride in the program. At least, it should.

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Remember that juco transfer, Trammel White, was supposed to start at point guard this year. The coaches were so settled on him that he was even included in the pre-game video and publicity photos. Losing White was a big blow to the team because we had to use two freshmen at the point guard position.

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The trend of recruiting classes never seeing the floor due to injury or other reasons hasn't helped.

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To answer the original topic: No, we are not.

 

If you think that 18-13 and 3rd place (3 games out of first) in a conference that has an automatic NCAA bid is the dark ages, you are seriously missing some historical perspective. Most of that has been covered above (Trickey take 2, the NAIA years, and the early return to NCAA were truly the "dark ages"), but I think we are headed to bigger and better things. I for one still really like our chances of going dancing this year, and the future is bright with some great young players and recruits. Especially, as Dr. C notes, if we can get over the injury and ineligibility bug.

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