So what should the NCAA do with Penn State?

[theeagleman5]

It's been a little boring around here with very few posts and little to talk about....that's usual at this time of year before the school comes back in session....so, being the controversy loving guy that I am, TheEagleman decided to throw this question out there.....ORU has had it's share of controversy over the past 25 yrs or so but nothing to this level.....I am sure there are lots of people with opinions out there.....I am wondering what people in the midwest and other parts of the country think.....most of you know that TheEagleman is a Pennsylvanian and always for almost 50 yrs a big fan of PSU football.....so this has been a tough past 9 months or so....as I write this it appears that the NCAA is about to come down harshly on Penn State athletics....and understand if they impose major financial penalties on the football program it will adversely affect all sports at Penn State and the entire local economy in the State College area.....there is very little else going on up there besides Penn State....the University is about 150 miles from both Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and it's economy is very much tied into Nittany Lion football.....TheEagleman was appalled at what Sandusky did and even more appalled that top university officials apparantly looked the other way for years so as not to "tarnish the lily white image" of Penn State.....today the JoePa statue was removed....probably an excellent decision considering the lightning rod it has become nationally.....unfortunately, Joe is no longer around to defend himself but it does appear that he failed to act properly when the Sandusky assaults where brought to his attention.....and bottom line, it was absurd that University officials allowed him to continue to coach well beyond his effective years....he should have been "retired' at least 12-15 yrs ago.....Paterno's ego definitely got the best of him....he had become bigger than the University and when the President and others went to him back in 2004 about retiring he just tossed them out of his house.....in actuality, if he knew about Sandusky's exploits back in 1998 as it appears that he did.....and then covered it up again in 2001 when his assistant reported the assault in the PSU showers.....and then the University President, Director of Security, Athletic Director and even State College police failed to take any action to stop Sandusky from attacking young boys....well, not much else can be said....this is about as bad as it gets.....so even a program as "clean" as Penn State has it's secrets to hide....and this is a big one.....the civil suits and cost to PSU will be enormous as it should be......and now the athletic program could be paying a very steep price when the NCAA announces it's sanctions on Monday......I feel badly for the innocent kids who were assaulted by Sandusky but also for the young men who have just enrolled at Penn State to play football and have nothing to do with any of this...also the completely new coaching staff that was hired in the past six months to change the program for the better.... TheEagleman would be interested to hear what others across the country have to say.....so let's hear it.....

[ORUalum]

PSU got off easy. they should have received the death penalty. as a school, they placed football above all else. therefore, the NCAA should have taken it away for a season or two.

[ORUTerry]

The NCAA did about as much as could be expected. We will never see a "death penalty" on a program again. If they would not do it now - it will never happen.

Penn State felt they owed Paterno because of how he built the program. He became too powerful and his ego got out of control; absolute power has a way of doing that. He (and others) had to know that Sandusky was an animal - even before being tipped off by the assistant. Paterno cared more about his football 'legacy' and the program - and how the exposure of Sandusky's sins would affect all that he had built. A terrible moral failure. It does make me wonder if Sandusky knew of other "problems" in the program that Paterno did not want to see the light of day.

The sanctions (loss of scholarships and post season games) will greatly impact Penn State's football program. The current players have the ability to transfer immediately - and the NCAA will allow the receiving teams latitude to exceed the 85 scholarship limit. It will be very interesting to see how many incoming freshmen (and others) decide to move. Gotta believe that other schools are calling them to inquire as to whether they are open to a transfer.

This will undoubtedly impact those that were not part of the coverup. But that is the nature of sin. It hurts those directly involved as well as those in proximity. If I commit a crime and as a result find myself incarcerated - I will lose my job and my family would suffer economically. They did nothing wrong, but the sin impacts them - as well as other people I do business with.

[theeagleman5]

The sanctions/penalties/fines imposed by the NCAA are worse than the death penalty.....this cripples the football program and ultimately all other sports at the University who survive thanks to Penn State football for at least the rest of this decade and probably beyond....hopefully the guys who led this cover up (Spanier, Schultz and Curley along with the Paterno estate) will be throttled financially by the civil courts.....it certainly is a dark day for PSU fans everywhere....but not unexpected......this scandal is the worst ever in college sports......

[theeagleman5]

By the way.....TheEagleman still thinks that the NCAA is a joke......notice that Emmert got up there this morning and never mentioned his former buddy Ex-PSU president Graham Spanier who really was the guy who let Paterno bully him around and failed to take the action that he should have as head of a major university.....that's a disgrace.....there are others as much or more to blame than Paterno.....

[ORUTerry]

Everyone in that athletic department should be shown the door. No one from the former regime should be employed by Penn State.

[theeagleman5]

The ENTIRE football staff is gone except for the D-Line coach who was also the main PSU recruiter....he was the only guy kept on by new coach Bill O'Brien......at this point, it's unlikely that PSU will have a winning football team for the rest of this decade.....now many other schools are ready to swoop in and poach any scholarship players who want to leave.....gotta love the culture of college football.....not much changes....Coach O'Brien has a monumental task ahead of him.... .

[ManiacAlum]

You know, when this first came down I also thought it was just grandstanding by the NCAA. But now, it's clear they had to do something, although I agree that Penn State should have received the death penalty. What happens when a USC or Ohio State says, "Yeah, our guys were getting illegal benefits, but we didn't cover up something like this."

Even though it was a terrible criminal act covered up by only a few, Penn State clearly held a competitive advantage for the past 13 years by covering up the fact that they harbored a child rapist on their campus. How many recruits and how much money would have been lost if that information was made public and destroyed the pristine Penn State image? (Which happened anyway.)

It sucks for the players that are already there, but that happens anytime a school gets sanctioned. And they have the option to leave and play immediately. Other than that, I really have no sympathy for Penn State. Listening to some of the commentary on tv and the radio, seems like there are a lot of fans just feeling sorry for themselves. Their worship of Paterno is part of the reason he had so much power in the first place. The fact that those empty suits Spanier and Curley couldn't make him step down in '04 after going 3-9 and 4-7 just proves that.

[theeagleman5]

Spanier, Curley, Schultz and Paterno all behaved disgracefully.....that is undeniable....and they deserve severe punishment....the first 3 may go to jail and pay large civil suits.....I hope they don't have a dime left in the bank after all is said and done....but please explain to TheEagleman how ANY of this gained PSU a competitive advantage which helped them on the gridiron?....I understand that there needs to be some financial penalties and those monies should go directly to the victims involved whose lives have been destroyed....also can somewhat understand the loss of bowl eligiblity and post season play as a penalty for putting football above the safety of children....but to take away 40 scholarships and allow other scummy schools to come in and poach current PSU players like it was Christmas in July?....what has been going on this week in State College is exactly what is wrong with the NCAA.....coaches are showing up at players' dorms and trying to woo them away from Penn State....while not nearly on par with the crimes of the previously mentioned four PSU execs....it's still disgraceful and unsportsmanlike....if a player wishes to leave PSU because of this scandal, TheEagleman thinks he certainly should be granted a window of opportunity....but the player should make the contact....not college coaches showing up on campus and poaching them.....it made me proud to see those 30 current PSU football players stand before the cameras yesterday and announce that they were going to stick by their committments and that the PSU football program was not built on one man (Paterno) and would not be destroyed by one man (Sandusky).....now those 30 players....THAT is what character and honor is all about.....TheEagleman is and will remain a Penn State football fan because of the character that those 30+ guys showed yesterday....I hope Spanier, etc rot in jail.....PSU football will live on......WE ARE.......PENN STATE!!!!

[ORUalum]

Eagleman,

You'll forgive me if I don't feel sad for poor old Penn State. Not one person at that school stood up those children being raped by Sandusky -- from the janitors all the way to the school president.

Your beloved JoePa, who famously said years ago he would not retire because he "could not leave college football to the likes of Switzer or Sherrill," was negotiating his buyout the same month he testified. He knew what was coming and to the very end he was looking out for himself.

Penn State fans have no excuse to cry about the actions of other coaches poaching their players when their school allowed a monster to abuse children on and off campus for at least 12 years and probably much longer. The "cult of football" was all that mattered in "Happy Valley." Perhaps losing meaningless football games for the next 6 to 8 years will help put things in perspective for the fans of Penn State.

[ManiacAlum]

Eagleman,

The competitive advantage comes from protecting Penn State football through the cover-up, not the actual crime itself. How many players would have changed their mind about going to Penn State if it had become known for having a pedophile connected to the program? It was admirable for those current players to come together and make a statement to the media, but how many of them would have chosen to attend Penn State having that knowledge coming out of high school? And how much money would have been lost if the truth came out earlier?

And, according to the Freeh Report, that was the entire purpose of covering up that information. Not to protect Sandusky or any other person specifically, but to shield PSU football from the fallout of public scrutiny and possibly earlier NCAA violations from having Sandusky around.

Here is a statement from Ed Ray, chairman of the NCAA Executive Committee:

"Penn State did a hell of a lot of recruiting between 1998 and 2012 of very top football athletes, played in bowl games, had great records during some of those years," he said. "I don’t know if a lot of that would have been possible if the truth had come out over the last 14 years."

The other major part of this is a university president (Spanier) and VP (Schultz) using their positions of power on the academic side to protect the football program. Say what you will about the NCAA, but one it's main purposes is to enforce the rules of student-athletes as 'amateurs', and sports should serve the university. The involvement of Spanier and Schultz, using their offices at the university to protect football, completely flips that upside down. In Schultz's case, he protected Penn State football to the point of breaking the law.

Usually I would agree that the NCAA being a joke, if we're talking about something like players being paid. In this case, with leaders at a university covering up the sexual abuse of children in favor of a sports program, they should have hammered Penn State. I would have been in favor of a 2-year death penalty.

[theeagleman5]

I understand and agree with most of your comments, Alum and Maniac....you are both intelligent and honorable guys....TheEagleman was no Paterno fan over the past 10-15 yrs and agree that he should have been gone long ago....I will not argue the majority of your points.....the leaders and employees who witnessed Sandusky's crimes against children should be ashamed and pay for their deeds....McQueary and and janitors will somehow have to live with what they saw and did not go to authorities about.....I don't understand how their consciences could have allowed them not to go to police even if their bosses did not.....I understand that the University has to pay a steep price for their lack of action on behalf of those poor kids....I hope the courts take care of Spanier, Schultz and Curley.....the next 10 years or so of PSU football will be pretty bleak.....TheEagleman might be fortunate to see a winning season or a bowl game by the time he hits 70......but it really is all about the innocent victims.....hopefully Sandusky will get his in prison.....but not for me to say.....it's all very sad......enough said.....

[ORUJason]

I think the NCAA enforcing a $60,000,000 fine seems like WAY too much money. The NCAA should not be in the position to "take" that much money from any member institution. I don't like the precedent that sets. Are they suddenly going to start fining for several other lesser infractions? I know that a lot of the $ are being donated to child abuse relief funds, but it is still a huge amount of money. I know that because there is so much $ in the Penn State program they can absorb such an enormous loss, and the NCAA wanted to send a clear message to make them feel some pain, but I don't think the NCAA should be fining schools. They should be enforcing other penalties: scholarships, ineligibility, limits on recruiting, limits on coaches, etc.

What if the exact same thing happened at a D-II football school in the Summit League or Southland Conference? They couldn't fine them $60,000,000, so how much do they fine them for the exact same offense? Once $ get involved it seems like the NCAA is wielding too much power and cannot possibly make the fines fair between member institutions when there is such a disparity in athletic revenue among the members.

[theeagleman5]

TheEagleman agrees with you, Jason.....they are just making a horrible situation even worse....the NCAA is a joke.....

[Bogus Smith]

I think the NCAA enforcing a $60,000,000 fine seems like WAY too much money......I know that because there is so much $ in the Penn State program they can absorb such an enormous loss, and the NCAA wanted to send a clear message to make them feel some pain, but I don't think the NCAA should be fining schools.

What if the exact same thing happened at a D-II football school in the Summit League or Southland Conference? They couldn't fine them $60,000,000, so how much do they fine them for the exact same offense? Once $ get involved it seems like the NCAA is wielding too much power and cannot possibly make the fines fair between member institutions when there is such a disparity in athletic revenue among the members.

The dollar amount was determined by fining PSU one-year's gross revenues from the football program. If this happened to a mid-major program, the $$ involved would be much lower, of course.

[ORUJason]

The dollar amount was determined by fining PSU one-year's gross revenues from the football program. If this happened to a mid-major program, the $$ involved would be much lower, of course.

I had not heard that was the rationale. At least that provides a way to keep the penalty somewhat fair when comparing programs. However, that is still way too much $ for the NCAA to be pulling out of a program. Especially when there will be significant $ they will pay out to victims down the road. I don't like the precedent at all.

[Bogus Smith]

I had not heard that was the rationale. At least that provides a way to keep the penalty somewhat fair when comparing programs. However, that is still way too much $ for the NCAA to be pulling out of a program. Especially when there will be significant $ they will pay out to victims down the road. I don't like the precedent at all.

Here's the link to the announcement: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-nittany-lions-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998. In the text, it stated "The NCAA said the $60 million was equivalent to the average annual revenue of the football program. The NCAA ordered Penn State to pay the penalty funds into an endowment for "external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."

In the end, the cost of this event (the fine and resulting civil awards) will eventually be paid for by the taxpayers of Pennsylvania and those of us that pay insurance premiums (I doubt that the University is self-insured - in which case it falls back to the taxpayers again). I doubt that Penn State is one of those lucky 10-12 athletic programs that is financially independent.