SOLO_Gold Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The notion of losing Sam Houston, Stephen A. Austin and Lamar makes the Southland a much less appealing option. I'd almost rather see the Summit go after UALR... Obviously those "in the know" are taking the long term implications of moving to the Southland into account, but let's not forget that TCU thought they were making a great decision in moving to the Big East -- although if they had waited they would undoubtedly be in the perfect position to join the Big 12 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 This sounds like a complicated decision....TheEagleman agrees that if SHSU, SFA, and Lamar are leaving.....ORU should stay put....those are all decent basketball and baseball schools......we would be better off remaining in the Summit and urging the addition of UALR as a travel partner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I don't think it's rational to think that if we stay in the Summit League, it will stay the same, too. In the time that ORU has been in the league, we've seen seven schools leave (Youngstown State, Buffalo, Northeastern Illinois, Chicago State, Valpo, Centenary, and Southern Utah) and seven schools join (Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW, SDSU, NDSU, USD, and Nebraska-Omaha) The only league schools to survive that period are us, Western Illinois, and UMKC. It's hard to know for sure where the chips will fall in ANY conference, but in the big picture, wouldn't it make more sense to align ourselves with a league that's more geographically and financially viable, headquartered in a bordering state, regardless of how glamorous (or not) it may appear at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 True....what's going on in the NCAA conferences over the past year is nuts....TCU in the Big East?.....that's crazy.....who knows what the Summit League will look like in 2015?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just as a FYI since DBU has been mentioned several times in this thread. DBU's baseball team was accepted into the WAC for baseball a couple of weeks ago (along with Cal State-Bakersfield). I thought that they were going to play in the MVC, but I guess that didn't work out for them. Baseball is DBU's only D-1 sport (they play D-II in all other sports) and, unless DBU is willing to make the financial commitment to a D-1 athletic program, I believe that they are pretty set with their "re-alignment" for right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Another factor while much less than the travel and recruiting benefits of the Southland is that Houston is a much better site to travel to a conf championship. Let's face it the tournament was never going to come back to Tulsa. The league made that perfectly clear when it awarded a site 6 straight years. Only ORU and UMKC would ever vote to play in Tulsa, the Dakota voting block plus Oakland and IUPUI would never let it happen. The rest of the league is just fine w/it in SF where SDSU is not winning it. It will move to Omaha after SF and then go back to the Dakotas. It was never coming back to Tulsa, so it is much better to travel to Houston than SF or Omaha every year. Two big mistakes Douple made was not adding another southern school when Centenary left and not rotating the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogus Smith Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 In an attempt to defend Tom Douple, I do believe that there was a concerted effort to attempt to bring UALR into to the conference to provide for a southern travel partner for ORU upon Centenary's decision to drop to D-III, but I don't think that there is a compelling reason for another school south of KC to align themselves with a northern-tier Summit League footprint. I would think that if ORU does decide to move to the Southland (and there is nothing here to imply that a move is imminent or is even going to happen), the Summit League will start to establish some travel parameter that parallels the Horizon League and you won't see many (if any) schools enter the Summit League that is south of KC, west of Colorado and east of Ohio. With SUU, Centenary and possibly ORU out of the mix, the SL should be more choosy in their selection of conference mates (unless the departure of schools to another conference forces that hand). Once SUU leaves the conference, the most expensive place in the League to travel will be Tulsa since it is hard for schools to bus here. Conversely, with ORU out of the mix of Summit League schools the Summit League's RPI will suffer a great deal in the Tier-1 sports and ORU will find it more difficult to dominate in a southern-tier athletic conference. Better athletes reside in the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Several of the potential "replacement" schools for the Southland if Lamar, SFA, etc. leave aren't currently fully qualified D-1 members in all sports. You can't build a conference around those teams. You need a core 6-7 members who have played together for at least 5 years. Also, Omaha is 2 hours closer to Tulsa by car than Houston. With the changing conference landscape beginning to trickle down to mid-major conferences, this decision might be a little more complicated than it would have been even 2 years ago. I have confidence that Mike Carter and Dr. Rutland will make the best decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I have to admit, a conference made up of the likes of Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word does not compare to the current Southland line-up. Perhaps it would be prudent to wait a year or two to see how things sort out in the two leagues - but not so long the boat sails without us. Just like "Shooter" said in Hoosiers: "Now boys, don't get caught watchin' the paint dry." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUTerry Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I know it's not a done deal until the ink is dry, but it is difficult for me to believe the conference office or Mike Carter would comment on this unless it was substantially down the road. The Summit has evolved into a decent basketball conference and the Dakota schools have added stability. They are also serious about putting strong squads on the field/court. I expect to see NDU added in the near future. They also make up a dominant voting bloc in conference matters. It is hard to see how ORU could turn down an invite - even with apparent uncertainty as to the three Texas schools. This region is a natural for us from a travel/cost and rivalry perspective. This region is also where a lot of our alumni reside. Basketball competition is a push. Obviously baseball will see a marked upgrade - but that would be true of most conferences we move to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Several of the potential "replacement" schools for the Southland if Lamar, SFA, etc. leave aren't currently fully qualified D-1 members in all sports. You can't build a conference around those teams. You need a core 6-7 members who have played together for at least 5 years. Also, Omaha is 2 hours closer to Tulsa by car than Houston. With the changing conference landscape beginning to trickle down to mid-major conferences, this decision might be a little more complicated than it would have been even 2 years ago. I have confidence that Mike Carter and Dr. Rutland will make the best decision. That rule was changed in January. Now it's just 7 active members. As soon as a school finishes its transition(like USD next year), they start counting toward the 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I know it's not a done deal until the ink is dry, but it is difficult for me to believe the conference office or Mike Carter would comment on this unless it was substantially down the road. The Summit has evolved into a decent basketball conference and the Dakota schools have added stability. They are also serious about putting strong squads on the field/court. I expect to see NDU added in the near future. They also make up a dominant voting bloc in conference matters. It is hard to see how ORU could turn down an invite - even with apparent uncertainty as to the three Texas schools. This region is a natural for us from a travel/cost and rivalry perspective. This region is also where a lot of our alumni reside. Basketball competition is a push. Obviously baseball will see a marked upgrade - but that would be true of most conferences we move to. Assuming you meant UND. It does seem logical that they would be part of the Summit, but logic isn't big up there. They have totally locked into joining the Big Sky next year, and I don't see that changing unless the Montanas join the WAC or our state legislature manages to totally screw up the nickname situation(again) next month. The big holdup for UND is a home for football. The MVFC was forced to expand to 10 in order to stabilize the Summit and MVFC by keeping USD out of the Big Sky. Unless a 12th school is found, there is virtually no way the MVFC will agree to expand past 10. Without that invite, UND won't consider the Summit unless they have no choice(Big Sky withdraws their invite). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Incarnate Word?.....Ugh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Lots of great talking ponts in this thread guys. I'll add a few comments to some of the points made above. Ron, while a larger percentage of Oklahomans are attending the University, ORU still continues to have students enroll from all over the country and that is not slowing. Currently 49 states are represented. Even If the Summit kept all of it's current members and the Southland lost all of those schools that were mentioned, I would still be in favor of a move if that meant the expenses to our athletic department's budget would be greatly decreased. For me it's a matter of continuing to position the University as a whole towards long-term economic sustainability and viability. If their is no school, their are no athletics. So what if we're in a conference that has a lot more directional schools that not many in the country has ever heard of before, as long as they're D-1 and we have the chance to compete in the NCAA tournament every year then I think it's worth it. I love the action that this topic is bringing to the board in what can usually be a slow time. Keep it going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Lots of great talking ponts in this thread guys. I'll add a few comments to some of the points made above. Ron, while a larger percentage of Oklahomans are attending the University, ORU still continues to have students enroll from all over the country and that is not slowing. Currently 59 states are represented. Even If the Summit kept all of it's current members and the Southland lost all of those schools that were mentioned, I would still be in favor of a move if that meant the expenses to our athletic department's budget would be greatly decreased. For me it's a matter of continuing to position the University as a whole towards long-term economic sustainability and viability. If their is no school, their are no athletics. So what if we're in a conference that has a lot more directional schools that not many in the country has ever heard of before, as long as they're D-1 and we have the chance to compete in the NCAA tournament every year then I think it's worth it. I love the action that this topic is bringing to the board in what can usually be a slow time. Keep it going! This post hits the nail right on the proverbial head. Though, I'm assuming that "59 states represented at ORU" is a typo. Otherwise, can't WAIT to see the new U.S. flag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcboy2000 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Ha! Yeah. Should read '49 states represented at ORU'. I'll change it above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89rabbit Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi guys, thought you might find this site interesting (it is a little dated but sitll relevent to your discussions): http://collegesports...r-some-options/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi guys, thought you might find this site interesting (it is a little dated but sitll relevent to your discussions): http://collegesports...r-some-options/ Good article. Thanks, 89rabbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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