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ORU confirms talks with Southland Conference


ORUTerry

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TheEagleman doesn't really know a lot about the Southland....it's not a very well known conference here in the East.....I can see why ORU might be getting a little concerned about the power being garnered by the northern Summit League schools....they prefer the tournaments in South or North Dakota, Illinois, Indiana or Michigan.....we are now the southern-most school.....agree that this is a step down for basketball but would raise the bar in baseball....better competition isn't a bad thing and ORU is a "name" in NCAA baseball.....things are getting stale for us in the Summit....I will be interested to see how things shake out over the next few months....if we leave the Summit, isn't there a financial penalty of some kind?....and how long would we be ineligible to compete in post season play if we make this move?..... :nerd:

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I could be wrong - but I think there's a LOT more going on here than concern over any "shift of power" or where the basketball tournament is being played or any of the things that are being said on the boards of our conference rivals. Those comments are myopic and self-serving. Changing conferences is a pretty big move for a program like ORU - any program, really - and to suggest that we would make that sort of move based on "not getting our way" or that "ORU liked being the big guy of the conference the bully if you will." The people saying these things have a pretty short tenure in the conference, and have not experienced the rise and fall of various programs in the conference that ORU fans have seen. They want to put the reasons for whatever move ORU may be considering into their limited time horizon.

The reality is, there are a lot more meaningful considerations in a move like this one - recruiting, travel expenses, conference strength and stability, etc. We can't really say that the Summit League is the perfect conference for us - we'd be foolish not to check out other options. That may be all that this is. ORU FANS have talked about this possibility for years, now maybe the administration is as well.

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TheEagleman would have to agree that Mike Carter an the administration would not be doing a good job if they didn't check out other options in light of all the changes in conferences over the past few years....this is surely not about being "top dog"....while ORU might not be happy about some of the shift in decision making power in the Summit....this is surely about long term costs and finances which are important to a small midwestern Christian university....we have to do what's best for us in the long run.....we certainly don't recruit much in the North.....I am sure the administration will do it's due diligence and make the right decisions for ORU in the long run.....and besides.....I can't see ORU being asked to replace Pitt and Syracuse in the Big East if they end up leaving..... ;-)

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I'm not sure what the job description for "Athletic Director" at ORU says, but I would hope that somewhere in there it reads:

"Jump at any chance you have to join a conference with schools in Texas."

For 40 years, the powers that be in ORU Athletics have dreamed of an opportunity like this one - hard to imagine how we can pass it up.

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The Summit has always been good to us.....but maybe it's finally time to go.....it would be very hard to give up joining a conference with so many schools in Texas and Arkansas....our teams' travel time and expenses would be greatly reduced and our baseball team would have much better competition....I am sure we could find a place for the soccer team.....not bad for basketball either.... :nerd:

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anybody have inside info about if this is going to happen? i hope ORU is not getting jerked around like OU and OSU did by the PAC-12.

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It appears we are being courted as the non-football replacement for departing Texas-Arlington, who was the only non-football team in the SC.

More problematic for the league is replacing UT San Antonio and Texas State with other football schools.

If and when we are announced, it would be effective this July. We would begin play in all sports next school year.

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thanks OT. if Mike Carter can pull this off, he can where all the OSU orange he wants and I'll give him a pass on the awful TU contract. :clap: :clap: :clap:

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It appears we are being courted as the non-football replacement for departing Texas-Arlington, who was the only non-football team in the SC.

More problematic for the league is replacing UT San Antonio and Texas State with other football schools.

If and when we are announced, it would be effective this July. We would begin play in all sports next school year.

Really?? How are we going to pay the two-year buyout on the contract with the SL? It's possible that the travel savings would be great enough to justify the buyout, but I don't know that we are leaving in such a manner that we would want to create a bad taste in our SL friends' mouth.

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This is very exciting for the program. Cost of travel / Texas recruiting and Men's and Womens programs will be as good if not better. Are there some negatives, yes but on the whole I think this makes alot of sense. Yet, I will miss the SL in Basketball. Seemed like a great parity of teams in the league. We will be a big fish in a small pond in the BB programs. Financially, its a win win. 8)

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Here's another positive spin to this story not yet mentioned... Over the past two years, ORU's focus has been on each university department becoming financially viable - and there was some concern as to whether ORU could retain its status as one of the smallest schools in Division 1. Apparently that hurdle has been cleared - or we wouldn't be in discussions with the Southland, we'd be talking to the NAIA. This is a MUCH better outcome!

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The Southland has effectively had a ban on private/religious schools since 1972, when Abilene Christian and Trinity left the conference. Since that date, no private schools has been accepted, even though numerous have tried. In 1978, when the TransAmerica Conference (now Atlantic Sun) formed from DI move-ups, it largely contained privates like Houston Baptist, Centenary, Hardin-Simmons, Samford, Mercer, and Oklahoma City. The Southland wouldn't give those schools the time of day. Granted, the Southland also wanted football schools, but that didn't seem to matter when they accepted UTSA or A&M Corpus Christi.

The year after the TransAmerica Conference was established, Oklahoma City moved over to the new more prestigious Midwestern City Conference. ORU, Xavier, Evansville, Butler, Detroit Mercy, Loyola (Chicago) were the initial members (later joined by Notre Dame and St. Louis). Difficult to imagine a more elite group of privates.

But OCU and ORU both moved down to NAIA. When ORU went back up to DI, the MCC no longer was interested. The Southland still had its policy of no privates. The TransAmerica had migrated to the east coast - leaving Houston Baptist and Centenary stranded. Houston Baptist left DI, in part because of the expense of staying in a travel heavy league. Centenary went independent. Only the Summit was available for ORU, so that's where ORU went. The Summit later took Centenary too, even though Centenary had dreamed of the Southland forever.

But now the Southland is losing UT-San Antonio, UT-Arlington, Texas State, and maybe Sam Houston St, Stephen F Austin, and Lamar. Six Texas teams could be lost. The Southland now is in a position that it will take private schools out of necessity. Incarnate Word is applying (they have football). Abilene Christian is applying (with football). Houston Baptist is applying (will start football if accepted). Dallas Baptist may be interested. Obviously, ORU and the Southland may mutual interest. The Southland with a faith-based component would be very attractive to ORU. Throw in the fact that Tx-La-Ar region is where ORU students are recruited, where ORU alumni are, where athletes are recruited, and travel would be much cheaper, and a move would be win-win-win-win for ORU.

ORU would be moving "home", ithe home it never had but should have had, if it obtains Southland membership.

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Thanks for the background on the Southland. What makes you think that Sam Houston, Stephen A. Austin and Lamar might leave the conference and where would they go?

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IF ORU goes to the Southland....are we ineligible for the conference championships and therefore NCAA postseason play for a year or two?.... :nerd:

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ORU would be immediately eligible for postseason play, just like any other team in the conference since ORU is a full-fledged D-1 member and the Southland Conference would qualify for the auto bids.

I have mixed feelings about a potential move to the Southland vs. staying in the Summit League. I'm sure travel costs would be somewhat cheaper, and that is the biggest plus in my opinion. If there is any uncertainty about Lamar, SFA, and Sam Houston leaving, then that would make me nervous. I thought an advantage of the Southland was stability, but if there is instability, then I'm not sure it is a better situation.

I think the Summit League is actually pretty stable at this point. Also, the teams in the Southland are all in small markets. I'm not as excited about playing a team from Corpus Christi or podunk Louisiana vs. playing a team from KC, Detroit, Indianapolis, etc. (even though those teams are mostly afterthoughts in those towns). Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way.

If the Southland conference holds on to their remaining teams and seems stable and saves lots of $, then it's probably a good decision if the opportunity to join actually arises. But I don't think the travel distances are as dramatically different between the 2 conferences as it seems at first glance. I hope ORU does an in-depth study of how many travel $ would actually be saved before they make a final decision.

One benefit would be that inclement weather due to ice storms/blizzards, etc. would be pretty much avoided.

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Thanks for the background on the Southland. What makes you think that Sam Houston, Stephen A. Austin and Lamar might leave the conference and where would they go?

The WAC still needs to add schools, as it only has 7 football members + 3 non-football members. In order to keep its status as an FBS conference, it needs to be at 8 football schools soon. Also, the WAC is in danger of losing San Jose St and Utah St as well as La Tech in realignment. Ideally, the WAC needs to have 10 football schools. The WAC really wants Montana and Montana State, but will take Lamar, Sam Houston St, and Stephen F Austin if necessary. The way the situation is going with realignment, the WAC might need all five football schools.

In order to move from FCS to FBS, a school now has to have an offer from an FBS conference. For those three schools, the WAC may be the only way they can be invited.

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ORU would be immediately eligible for postseason play, just like any other team in the conference since ORU is a full-fledged D-1 member and the Southland Conference would qualify for the auto bids.

I have mixed feelings about a potential move to the Southland vs. staying in the Summit League. I'm sure travel costs would be somewhat cheaper, and that is the biggest plus in my opinion. If there is any uncertainty about Lamar, SFA, and Sam Houston leaving, then that would make me nervous. I thought an advantage of the Southland was stability, but if there is instability, then I'm not sure it is a better situation.

I think the Summit League is actually pretty stable at this point. Also, the teams in the Southland are all in small markets. I'm not as excited about playing a team from Corpus Christi or podunk Louisiana vs. playing a team from KC, Detroit, Indianapolis, etc. (even though those teams are mostly afterthoughts in those towns). Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way.

If the Southland conference holds on to their remaining teams and seems stable and saves lots of $, then it's probably a good decision if the opportunity to join actually arises. But I don't think the travel distances are as dramatically different between the 2 conferences as it seems at first glance. I hope ORU does an in-depth study of how many travel $ would actually be saved before they make a final decision.

One benefit would be that inclement weather due to ice storms/blizzards, etc. would be pretty much avoided.

The Southland has all kinds of options:

Incarnate Word wants in (Catholic school in San Antonio)

Houston Baptist wants in (obviously in Houston)

Abilene Christian wants in (Church of Christ)

Dallas Baptist may want in (great baseball, which is already in DI)

Angelo State may want in

Texas A&M-Commerce may want in

Texas Pan American wants in

There's talk that Central Oklahoma may apply, but nothing in the media yet.

Two football schools that the Southland seems to want are West Texas A&M near Amarillo and Tarleton State, near Fort Worth. But neither seem to be moving forward to Division I. None of the Louisiana schools are going anywhere: they simply don't have the money, as Louisiana has cut way back on education appropriations.

But don't assume the Summit is going to be able to stay in its current form either. If the Big East basketball schools break off and add Atlantic 10 or Horizon schools (like Butler), the Summit could get its eastern flank raided (Oakland, IPFW, IUPUI). Then the Summit would need to add more schools: like Lindenwood (near St Louis), Bellarmine (in Louisville), Southern Indiana (in Evansville), St Cloud St (in Minnesota), Minnesota State - Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, or even add back Chicago State.

There's always a chance that a spot will open up in the Missouri Valley (like if Creighton gets invited to go with the Catholic Big East schools). Going to the Southland wouldn't preclude ORU from moving up in conference profile. When the WAC took UT-Arlington as a non-football school, it is very possible that the WAC also checked with ORU before making that move. The WAC has good baseball and basketball, but the uncertainty and travel (to Seattle, Idaho, San Jose St) probably were a turnoff. UT-Arlington is supposedly looking at adding football, so that was a clincher for UT-Arlington.

ORU just needs to make a decision of what's best for it geographically, or really, find what what it is called to do. The world is changing fast and what was here yesterday, there is simply no guarantee it will be there tomorrow.

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I`m not for the move. Here are my main pro arguments:

1. Strength of the Summit League: Basketball seems to be ORU's premier sport (it certainly is for me), and I like the kind of schedule we`ve been able to put together in this league. The league is generally on its way up. With Centenary leaving, we should experience another serious rpi boost this year.

2. Regional vs. national presence: If ORU has indeed become a regional mid-western Christian university instead of one that draws students from all over the US (and perhaps the odd one from Canada), this move might fit (see travel cost). That is a change that doesn`t sit easy with me because it doesn`t fit my story. This is very subjective, I know, but it seems to me that we have recruited from all over, and that there are fans following ORU ball in several different areas of the country. Will students really get more excited watching ORU play more regional competition than the teams we have gotten to know over time in the Summit League (this alum won`t, I don`t think)?

3. Tournament in Tulsa: Will ORU be guaranteed a conference tournament in Tulsa every 3 (4, 5, or 6) years? I`m thinking not. As a northern boy, I have a little difficulty when people complain a lot about weather. I enjoy the seasons and think they can be managed. Take a road trip to the conference tournament. Drive according to the conditions. Play better ball and put together a competitive bid based on more bums in seats. Then the tournament will be back.

Cons: The only argument that makes sense to me in regard to moving to the Southland is travel cost.

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