HWSNBN leaving arkansas?

[bballmangc]

In my opinion HWSNBN's recruiting story and subsequent college career is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard (concerning CBB). He should have gone to either TU and ORU -- local fan base at small schools who would really care about HWSNBN's success.

It's interesting to read the comments on the TW article focus around the Jimmer comparison. In a lot ways I want to dismiss the comparison. Just because you have two players who are white and can shoot, doesn't make them similar or comparable. But looking deeper at the story, if he had come to ORU their narratives may have run somewhat parallel. Jimmer left his NY home to attend the religious Utah based university. For BYU, it had to be a dream come true. Not only did they get a highly touted basketball player to represent their U on the court, they also got an advocate of their closely held faith. My assumption is that Jimmer means a lot more to those who have or one day will attend BYU because in a sense his success on the court signals to the world the legitimacy of an often marginalized and ridiculed faith.

Saddest story ever? Why? This story happens all the time its a part of the game. An above average high school player goes to a school thats too big for his talent level and he can't play as effectively. Happens all the time at every level. We have guys on our team right now that fit that bill as do every other school in the country. Guys come in highly touted and then don't pan out. In his defense he's started for 3 years so even if he hasn't put up the numbers his family thought he would thats still a pretty good career to be a starter at an SEC school. I don't think he transfers I think he stays with Anderson and gets a ton of shots up and maybe even makes more in the up tempo style while playing fewer minutes. All this talk of him transferring every year is boring and blown out of proportion, still sounds like sour grapes to me from local media.

As for our own local heros, um, why not Caleb Green (local kid) or Moses Ehambe (great school spirit). I'd count those as our Jimmers as of late.

[Old Titan]

Let's see: three years in, 14-point average (same as Warren Niles), nothing approaching a conference title, got his coach fired.

Can't play a lick of defense, doesn't rebound, needs others help to get his shot off, and can be virtually eliminated by better, longer defenders.

Has no loyalty to whatever school attended at the time - has bounced around since junior high in an effort to showcase individual skills, always planning for the next stop.

Meddling family members always crying in the media about lack of respect and appreciation, threatening to leave at the sign of any perceived injustice.

All sound eerily familiar?

Look, I'm going to call it like I see, because that's what I do: if this was a black kid from Oak Cliff, Texas, there are those would be quick to say he is a cancer, a bad teammate, obsessed with individual goals, unduly influenced by family members who see him as meal ticket, and a prime example of an AAU culture that is crippling college basketball today, turning would-be men into pampered, discontented guns-for-hire on the basketball court.

But instead, since this is a white kid from a rural town in Oklahoma, there are still some people - ESPECIALLY IN THE MEDIA - who want to grab a banjo and start singing the "Ballad of Rotnei", making him into some larger-than-life folk hero, when in fact he is EXACTLY everything previously described.

Bottom line: SO glad we didn't sign this kid - our coaching staff would have never slept a wink, worrying on one hand what it would take next to keep everyone in his "organization" happy, while on the other hand trying to figure out how to shore up their porous perimeter defense.

Can't be done - as Arkansas and John Pelphrey discovered the hard way, and as some other poor program is getting ready to find out.

[tmh8286]

As for our own local heros, um, why not Caleb Green (local kid) or Moses Ehambe (great school spirit). I'd count those as our Jimmers as of late.

I don't know if this was intended in response to my remark, but I was referencing what Solo Gold had said about Jimmers - "that Jimmer means a lot more to those who have or one day will attend BYU because in a sense his success on the court signals to the world the legitimacy of an often marginalized and ridiculed faith."

That's not to say OUR faith is ridiculed in the same way that the Mormon faith is, but I meant a truly stand out player that was at ORU because they wanted to be there, because it was faith based - I don't think either Ken or Caleb fit that criteria, and as good as he was, I don't think Moses did either. Kelenna Azubuike would have been the type of kid I mean - standout player, Christian kid from a Christian HS. But he chose the bright lights and big city of KU. The Kelenna situation, like HWSNBN, probably was a blessing not to be in the middle of. But I'm talking about a kid like that - and he doesn't have to be from Tulsa. Just a Christian kid who wants to go to a Christian school - and by the way, he can PLAY BASKETBALL.

[bballmangc]

I don't know if this was intended in response to my remark, but I was referencing what Solo Gold had said about Jimmers - "that Jimmer means a lot more to those who have or one day will attend BYU because in a sense his success on the court signals to the world the legitimacy of an often marginalized and ridiculed faith."

That's not to say OUR faith is ridiculed in the same way that the Mormon faith is, but I meant a truly stand out player that was at ORU because they wanted to be there, because it was faith based - I don't think either Ken or Caleb fit that criteria, and as good as he was, I don't think Moses did either. Kelenna Azubuike would have been the type of kid I mean - standout player, Christian kid from a Christian HS. But he chose the bright lights and big city of KU. The Kelenna situation, like HWSNBN, probably was a blessing not to be in the middle of. But I'm talking about a kid like that - and he doesn't have to be from Tulsa. Just a Christian kid who wants to go to a Christian school - and by the way, he can PLAY BASKETBALL.

Yes, I think I replied to two posts at once there. However, Moses was definitely that type of guy. He was a regular at ORU chapel and helped out with Guts church every year he was here and even when he wasn't. He was a class act off the court. (I mentioned Caleb as a local guy hero.) I'd also put Luke Spencer-Gardner in that category even though he wasn't as outspoken as Moses.

[bballmangc]

Let's see: three years in, 14-point average (same as Warren Niles), nothing approaching a conference title, got his coach fired.

Can't play a lick of defense, doesn't rebound, needs others help to get his shot off, and can be virtually eliminated by better, longer defenders.

Has no loyalty to whatever school attended at the time - has bounced around since junior high in an effort to showcase individual skills, always planning for the next stop.

Meddling family members always crying in the media about lack of respect and appreciation, threatening to leave at the sign of any perceived injustice.

All sound eerily familiar?

Look, I'm going to call it like I see, because that's what I do: if this was a black kid from Oak Cliff, Texas, there are those would be quick to say he is a cancer, a bad teammate, obsessed with individual goals, unduly influenced by family members who see him as meal ticket, and a prime example of an AAU culture that is crippling college basketball today, turning would-be men into pampered, discontented guns-for-hire on the basketball court.

But instead, since this is a white kid from a rural town in Oklahoma, there are still some people - ESPECIALLY IN THE MEDIA - who want to grab a banjo and start singing the "Ballad of Rotnei", making him into some larger-than-life folk hero, when in fact he is EXACTLY everything previously described.

Bottom line: SO glad we didn't sign this kid - our coaching staff would have never slept a wink, worrying on one hand what it would take next to keep everyone in his "organization" happy, while on the other hand trying to figure out how to shore up their porous perimeter defense.

Can't be done - as Arkansas and John Pelphrey discovered the hard way, and as some other poor program is getting ready to find out.

OT you LOVE to rag on him. And I sort of agree with most of it. However, as you indicated his story isn't that rare, as it happens often. Also not sure I agree he got Pelphrey fired, he wasn't everything he was billed to be but I think Pelphrey realized that after his freshman year, Pelphrey lost a bunch of other recruits plus NCAA violations which led to his firing not just one guy not performing to his hype. If Pelphrey put all his hopes in one guy (no matter who it was) that would have been a mistake but I don't think he did that. That being said with the other guys on Arkansas team did he not deserve as much playing time as he got? If Pelphrey would have recruited a little better he wouldn't have had to rely on him as much and would have been able to get more talent around him.

[darrenj]

I think he has been a good player for Ark just not really a difference maker at that level. Not sure what else Pelphrey could have done for him. Heck didn't he just suspend 1 game for the violation last year? Always seemed like a nice kid but dad and uncle a little much that is for sure.

Ironic in that Pelphrey goes and gets top 5 recruiting class for next year and gets fired and Mike Anderson gets to walk into that situation.

Speaking of point guards sure would be nice to find another Luke again! Hate to see all the Aussies go to St. Mary's now! You know all their games get seen on tv in Australia every year!Now that is a great recruiting tool!

[SOLO_Gold]

Saddest story ever? Why? This story happens all the time its a part of the game. An above average high school player goes to a school thats too big for his talent level and he can't play as effectively. Happens all the time at every level. We have guys on our team right now that fit that bill as do every other school in the country. Guys come in highly touted and then don't pan out. In his defense he's started for 3 years so even if he hasn't put up the numbers his family thought he would thats still a pretty good career to be a starter at an SEC school. I don't think he transfers I think he stays with Anderson and gets a ton of shots up and maybe even makes more in the up tempo style while playing fewer minutes. All this talk of him transferring every year is boring and blown out of proportion, still sounds like sour grapes to me from local media.

As for our own local heros, um, why not Caleb Green (local kid) or Moses Ehambe (great school spirit). I'd count those as our Jimmers as of late.

My comment was to meant to speak to the importance of having someone, on a national scale, represent their faith, school and basketball as loudly as someone like Jimmer does. HWSNBN was used as an example to illustrate that point. 

Whether or not he that kid could be a big time player is probably something none of us are qualified to answer. I'm sure if you think about it, all of us can come up with players whom when placed in a different system and situation elevate their game to a new level. 

By no means am I suggesting that would DEFINITELY be true for this kid, but it's fair to bring balance to the argument.

[Old Titan]

Somewhat related thought: with Clarke either transferring or graduating next year, and with ORU-friendly Mike Anderson now at the helm, it's time to get a series going again with the Razorbacks.

And none of this guarantee-game stuff: should be at least a 2-for-1 (just like we did with Anderson at Missouri), or a 4-gamer with 2 games in Fayetteville, one at the Mabee Center, and the fourth game either in Little Rock or at the BOK Center downtown.

ORU needs to be playing at LEAST one of the OU/OSU/Arkansas trio each year - and more when possible. It's just good business for everyone: low travel costs, fans can get to the games in a day, bigger crowds, etc.

[ORUTerry]

I agree that the local schools should be playing each other - and there are all kinds of reasons: fans enjoys it & that means more money from larger crowd, lower travel costs, etc. This certainly includes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Tulsa - but also Wichita State, Missouri State, North Texas, SMU, TCU, etc.

[theeagleman5]

TheEagleman agrees...ORU should be playing all of these schools within 200 miles or so...it just makes sense from the point of economics and fan interest...hard to believe that all of them would fear coming into Mabee Center...are they afraid of the 75-100 or so Maniacs?....if we regularly had OU, Arkansas, No.Texas, SMU, TCU, OSU, Missouri State and Wichita State coming to our place at least 2 or 3 of these every year...Mabee Center average attendence would be a lot more than the 3500 we get now....we would surely average over 5000....Tulsans don't want to watch WIU, UMKC, UNO, etc....they want some good name universities.....let's get it done!....

[Old Titan]

Clay Henry, former Tulsa World sports writer and the head man at HawgsIllustrated.com, posted the following blurb yesterday:

"Rotnei Clarke wanted a release so who could transfer, but new Arkansas coach Mike Anderson has already had a workout with the guard and a meeting with his parents. Things seem to be 'fine', according to Anderson."

[OKC Eagle]

[Old Titan]

No kidding: can't wait till next spring when this kid finally graduates, and we are forever spared from any further self-promoting Bill Haisten articles quoting his goofy uncle.

[ORUTerry]

Like moths drawn to the flame.... or rubbernecking at a traffic accident. We don't like it but we have to reead about it. What is that family going to do when Rotnei is out of school and the 'drama' ends? Really

[vcboy2000]

I'm sure they'll move to whatever NBDL team or international team he plays for and the drama will continue for that community.

[jmg1984]

In my opinion HWSNBN's recruiting story and subsequent college career is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard (concerning CBB). He should have gone to either TU and ORU -- local fan base at small schools who would really care about HWSNBN's success.

It's interesting to read the comments on the TW article focus around the Jimmer comparison. In a lot ways I want to dismiss the comparison. Just because you have two players who are white and can shoot, doesn't make them similar or comparable. But looking deeper at the story, if he had come to ORU their narratives may have run somewhat parallel. Jimmer left his NY home to attend the religious Utah based university. For BYU, it had to be a dream come true. Not only did they get a highly touted basketball player to represent their U on the court, they also got an advocate of their closely held faith. My assumption is that Jimmer means a lot more to those who have or one day will attend BYU because in a sense his success on the court signals to the world the legitimacy of an often marginalized and ridiculed faith.

[jmg1984]

jimmer was a local albany area allstar who was a chubby kid growing up but worked super hard into making himself the player he is today. one of his parents is catholic the other mormon he considered local college siena. was great seeing him turn into 1 of the best, this area doesent see many like him, sam perkins comes to mind as another local to do well on natl scene. jimmer sure did shine a positive light on byu ev en more than ainge many yrs ago

[ORUalum]

since things are slow. mike anderson playing hardball w/HWSNBN and pelphrey's top recruits.

Arkansas takes hard line, won't release leading scorer Clarke

By Jeff Goodman

CBSSports.com

June 17, 2011

Arkansas coach Mike Anderson won't let Rotnei Clarke leave.

Clarke, the Razorbacks leading scorer from a year ago and arguably the top shooter in the entire country, has asked for a transfer from the program on two separate occasions.

Clarke asked for his release shortly after the coaching change that brought Anderson to Arkansas in March. He was told to take some time -- and asked Anderson for his release again this past Monday.

But Anderson and athletic director Jeff Long have not given Clarke his release. Clarke said he has attempted to reach Long over the past few days since Anderson told him in a meeting earlier this week that he would not be let go.

CBSSports.com has also been unsuccessful in attempts to reach Long, Anderson and a member of Anderson's coaching staff seeking comment.

The school's unwillingness to allow Clarke to transfer comes shortly after Anderson enabled senior point guard Jeff Peterson and forward Glenn Bryant to go elsewhere.

...

Clarke, according to sources, isn't the only one Anderson hasn't allowed to explore other opportunities.

Two members of Arkansas' highly regarded recruiting class -- which was assembled by former coach John Pelphrey and his coaching staff -- both asked Anderson for their release.

It's basically an unwritten rule that, following a coaching change, recruits are released from their letters-of-intent if they want to play elsewhere.

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegebasketball/story/15241782/arkansas-takes-hard-line-wont-release-leading-scorer-clarke