BasPlayer takes a bullet...

[Guest EagleBackr]

...or a hundred bullets, I should say! Bas, while I appreciate you defending ORU posters on the TU message board, I must insist that you not throw yourself under the bus for us. We are, for the most part, big boys and girls and we wouldn't post over there in the TU kitchen if we couldn't take the heat. Frankly, I thought the TU board was severely lacking in passion of late, and if me and Voice were able to stir up the debate a little, I think the TU board is better for it. Was it Thomas Jefferson who said, "a little revolution every now and then is a good thing. It cleanses the air like a summer storm"? Something like that. Anyway, thanks again for standing up to the angry mob - just try not to get yourself stoned in the process....

[ORUTerry]

Correct Jeferson quote is:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[Guest EagleBackr]

Correct Jeferson quote is:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

That's a great quote, Terry, but that's not the one I'm talking about. Here it is, in bold type, taken from a letter to James Madison:

Paris, January 30th, 1787

Dear Sir,

My last to you was of the 16th of December; since which, I have received yours of November 25 and December 4, which afforded me, as your letters always do, a treat on matters public, individual, and economical. I am impatient to learn your sentiments on the late troubles in the Eastern states. So far as I have yet seen, they do not appear to threaten serious consequences. Those states have suffered by the stoppage of the channels of their commerce, which have not yet found other issues. This must render money scarce and make the people uneasy. This uneasiness has produced acts absolutely unjustifiable; but I hope they will provoke no severities from their governments. A consciousness of those in power that their administration of the public affairs has been honest may, perhaps, produce too great a degree of indignation; and those characters, wherein fear predominates over hope, may apprehend too much from these instances of irregularity. They may conclude too hastily that nature has formed man insusceptible of any other government than that of force, a conclusion not founded in truth or experience.

Societies exist under three forms, sufficiently distinguishable: (1) without government, as among our Indians; (2) under governments, wherein the will of everyone has a just influence, as is the case in England, in a slight degree, and in our states, in a great one; (3) under governments of force, as is the case in all other monarchies, and in most of the other republics.

To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the first condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has its evils, too, the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs.

I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.

If these transactions give me no uneasiness, I feel very differently at another piece of intelligence, to wit, the possibility that the navigation of the Mississippi may be abandoned to Spain. I never had any interest westward of the Allegheny; and I will never have any. But I have had great opportunities of knowing the character of the people who inhabit that country; and I will venture to say that the act which abandons the navigation of the Mississippi is an act of separation between the Eastern and Western country. It is a relinquishment of five parts out of eight of the territory of the United States; an abandonment of the fairest subject for the payment of our public debts, and the chaining those debts on our own necks, in perpetuum.

I have the utmost confidence in the honest intentions of those who concur in this measure; but I lament their want of acquaintance with the character and physical advantages of the people, who, right or wrong, will suppose their interests sacrificed on this occasion to the contrary interests of that part of the confederacy in possession of present power. If they declare themselves a separate people, we are incapable of a single effort to retain them. Our citizens can never be induced, either as militia or as soldiers, to go there to cut the throats of their own brothers and sons, or rather, to be themselves the subjects instead of the perpetrators of the parricide.

Nor would that country quit the cost of being retained against the will of its inhabitants, could it be done. But it cannot be done. They are able already to rescue the navigation of the Mississippi out of the hands of Spain, and to add New Orleans to their own territory. They will be joined by the inhabitants of Louisiana. This will bring on a war between them and Spain; and that will produce the question with us, whether it will not be worth our while to become parties with them in the war in order to reunite them with us and thus correct our error. And were I to permit my forebodings to go one step further, I should predict that the inhabitants of the United States would force their rulers to take the affirmative of that question. I wish I may be mistaken in all these opinions.

Yours affectionately,

Th. Jefferson

Ya know, that Jefferson fella could sure write a word or two, couldn't he?

[ORUTerry]

I like my Jefferson quote better....

[BasPlayr]

...or a hundred bullets, I should say! Bas, while I appreciate you defending ORU posters on the TU message board, I must insist that you not throw yourself under the bus for us. We are, for the most part, big boys and girls and we wouldn't post over there in the TU kitchen if we couldn't take the heat. Frankly, I thought the TU board was severely lacking in passion of late, and if me and Voice were able to stir up the debate a little, I think the TU board is better for it. Was it Thomas Jefferson who said, "a little revolution every now and then is a good thing. It cleanses the air like a summer storm"? Something like that. Anyway, thanks again for standing up to the angry mob - just try not to get yourself stoned in the process....

I don't look at it so much as throwing myself under the bus for ORU, as much as I see it as trying to raise the level of decency by our fans, and eliminating what I see as a prejudice against ORU simply because it is a "Religous" institution, or that it's founder has done some things that are perceived as a "little over the top".

Prejudice is prejudice, regardless of what form it is thrown out in. Prejudice should be attacked at every level. We will all be better off if we rise above that type of behavior.

I appreciate your concern, but as you will learn, I am the type of guy that will stand up when it's the right thing to do. Regardless of who I'm standing up for. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I could handle the consequences for my own actions.

Look at my tag line. That is where it all comes from.

[Dr. Cornelius]

BasPlayr and some of the TU posters (AshVid comes to mind) are very knowledgable and evenhanded... it's not as if EVERY fan is at each others throats... just the majority.

[oruvoice]

Well, I should have learned by now that any comments about TU athletics that are less than 'rosey', will be met with negative responses. Heck, even Ash & Bas get shouted down and they are TU fans.

IMNSHO, the majority of the posters (on most message boards, not just TU's), know almost nothing about what they speak. The thing that gets them so mad at me, is that they realize I know more about college athletics in general and what is going on at TU, than most of them!

Not trying to sound pompous, just stating the fact...

[orumom]

I'm impressed to know my family is keeping company with some intellectuals on the board, not just a bunch of dumb jocks. We always knew you were GOOD people.