theeagleman5 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Yep...it's THAT Presbyterian....and how pathetic is it that TU vs PU outdraws a top mid major battle like ORU-Creighton?...it's VERY pathetic....yes, i would give my right night to be able to attend ORU games on a regular basis....and it's so humid here in Philly today...i am sweating my remaining nut off..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 your right night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 To get this discussion back on track, OT wasn't saying that the TU/Presbyterian game drew more, he's saying that having that game going on at the same time probably drew some people that might have gone to the ORU game IF the TU game wasn't going on. For the record: TU/Presbyterian attendance, 5079; ORU/Creighton, 8152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 sorry, LL...i did mean NUT...lol....and where did that "8152" attendence # come from for ORU-Creighton?....from TV it looked like 5000 at best....there could not have been THAT many no shows...no chance!...and LL, I remember that Penn game very well when Oral came down and asked people from the blue seats to come down and sit in the Gold...the game was not played during a student break...and the attendance that Sat. afternoon nationally televised game as still 7500....i think some of the season ticket holders just failed to show...that was a the year after Trickey was gone....it just was never the same after that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 by the way, LL...we lost that Penn game...a 75-74 heartbreaker as i recall....Anthony Roberts did not have one of his better games....we never seemed to fair well in nationally televised contests back then...i can recall talking to my dad in Philly after that game and he wasn't happy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 ....and where did that "8152" attendance # come from for ORU-Creighton?....from TV it looked like 5000 at best....there could not have been THAT many no shows...no chance!... Now that's a discussion for another thread - the old actual attendance vs. sold seat argument. Most schools announce the number of seats sold - which includes sponsor seats and the like, and most of the time is not an accurate representation of the number of people in attendance. From what I understand, it was difficult or impossible to determine the exact number of actually people in attendance when collecting ticket stubs, but now that ORU is using the electronic scanners for taking tickets they know pretty accurately what actual attendance is. Some schools will announce both numbers - sold tickets and actual attendance. It would be nice if ORU would do that, but I doubt that they will any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 If I read one more post about how "we used to draw "X" back in the day, but now we only draw "Y" - why can't it be like the good ol' days?" I'm going to pull out what little hair I have remaining. IT WAS 30 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE!! THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO!! TICKETS WERE ABOUT $3.00 EACH! THERE WERE ONLY 3 TV STATIONS AND NO INTERNET!! ORAL CLOSED THE FREAKING LIBRARY AND STUDENT UNION DURING GAMES!! Blah, blah, blah - I sound like a broken record. Wake up and smell the millennium, folks. Duke and North Carolina played before less-than-capacity crowds last year. National champion Kansas didn't sell out all their home games, either. OSU and OU had some of their worst home crowds in decades, and TU only sold out at home for Memphis and the CBI championship game, if at all. Decreased attendance is a nationwide dilemma in men's college basketball. We can't just blame it on this particular crop of ORU students. Maybe we should blame it on MySpace, XBoxLive, mixed martial arts on pay-per-view, and lacrosse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Well, well, well...an entertaining and interesting thread, so I have to jump in from my traditional off season sabbatical from the message board... So, a lot of candid takes from all which I couldn't appreciate more...nice! I love it! TTCount even coming with something I've been saying for years...our actual real on-campus student enrollment is nowhere near the "announced" number. Okay, so I'm going to go back to something Larry said regarding the concern over diminishing the "perceived" value of a product by giving it away or selling it "too cheap." Well, I appreciate what you're saying Larry, and at Clemson or Indiana or Arizona I absolutely agree with you; but the difference is the supply/demand ratio at Clemson is not even close to what we're dealing with at ORU...so unfortunately I don't agree 100% with you at ORU...that said, the days of FREE tickets should stop and be replaced by ticket prices that are more affordable than the movies and anything else a family of four would opt to do on a family night out before an ORU game. The before mentioned ESPN "Bracket Buster" match-up with middle of the Missouri Valley Creighton was a disappointing crowd and yes there were plenty of other "entertainment" opportunities on that date (OT mentioned quite a few, but missed the Bedlam women's game in Norman which featured a sold out arena). Guys, the issue is this...our product just isn't relevant to very many people in the greater Tulsa area (i.e., pretty low demand), including on our own campus. In Denzel Washington's hit movie from 2007, American Gangster, you have a simple answer to successful sales in a competitive marketplace with plenty of "entertainment" options...OFFER A BETTER PRODUCT AT A MORE AFFORDABLE PRICE. We have a terrific story to tell...we need to tell it to the right audiences and then price our product so affordably they all buy it...then and only then will see an increase in "demand" (tickets sold to a fan who will actually attend most games) and a decrease in our "supply" (of empty seats). When we're charging $17 a ticket for the ORU/Rogers State exhibition game, that family of four who come out in early November, won't be back after the sticker shock of $68 for four tickets and $30 more at the concession stand...the average Bible-belt family of four doesn't drop $100/night for entertainment too often if ever at all. Unfortunately a scary thing is the fact that so few of our on campus students even care about the basketball team...kind of flies in the face of the theory that successful athletic programs have a positive effect on applications for admissions and ultimately on student enrollment numbers. At Duke or even the University of Oklahoma, that may be true...at ORU, I'm not convinced that a very significant number of students would even care or notice if we dropped down to NAIA membership again. Yes, I know there are plenty of passionate fans among our current student body, but unfortunately it is by far not the majority of our students....they prove that by how few come out to the games. It's not necessarily a bad thing, we want students on campus whether they love athletics or not; I just believe it's pretty clear that most students don't come to ORU because of our athletic programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 If I read one more post about how "we used to draw "X" back in the day, but now we only draw "Y" - why can't it be like the good ol' days?" I'm going to pull out what little hair I have remaining. IT WAS 30 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE!! THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO!! TICKETS WERE ABOUT $3.00 EACH! THERE WERE ONLY 3 TV STATIONS AND NO INTERNET!! ORAL CLOSED THE FREAKING LIBRARY AND STUDENT UNION DURING GAMES!! Blah, blah, blah - I sound like a broken record. Wake up and smell the millennium, folks. Duke and North Carolina played before less-than-capacity crowds last year. National champion Kansas didn't sell out all their home games, either. OSU and OU had some of their worst home crowds in decades, and TU only sold out at home for Memphis and the CBI championship game, if at all. Decreased attendance is a nationwide dilemma in men's college basketball. We can't just blame it on this particular crop of ORU students. Maybe we should blame it on MySpace, XBoxLive, mixed martial arts on pay-per-view, and lacrosse... Amen, brutha, amen...exactly what he said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I appreciate the excellent comments by all especially Golden Boy and Old Titan...yeah, i guess 2008 is a lot different than 1975....students have much more to do and are paying a lot more for their education...going down to watch a basketball game when they have to study or have many other options is understandable....$100 an evening for a family of 4 is also hard in this economy unless you have a good income or love ORU roundball....i guess unless we have a Top 25 team, we are not going to see sold out crowds again at mabee...just makes me sad as on old titan, myself......i loved it....still do....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Minyard Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 It's posts like this that make me wonder again if eagleman5 is actually an opposition troll in Golden Eagle feathers... Well the big competition on that day was OU-OSU Bedlam women's basketball (a single-game attendance record in Norman) and on TV, OSU vs. Kansas in Stillwater, Memphis vs. Tennessee on ESPN that night, OU vs. Texas at 2:30 p.m. on TV. The bottom line... we we're going to get any help from OU, OSU or TU fans. It was a tough date for ORU basketball especially with two home games earlier in the week. I don't want to make excuses, but we were handcuffed. I was happy we had the atmosphere we did have for the game. The players appreciated it. I received phone calls and texts from out of town fans that said it looked good on TV. So it wasn't all for nothing. Recruits didn't get turned off from ORU because of our crowd... and really that is all that matters. As long as recruits are happy... we all should be happy. Plus... all I have is a $2,000 annual advertising budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Whew!! There's enough here to chew on for a month. I would like to make a few points based on the general tone of what was said. 1. I think some of the old guys like me would agree it is out of love for ORU, that we want to see the crowds, excitment and community support again. Not to live in the past, but to see the program build for the future. 2. My point about charging for tickets, etc. is that people have a tendency to respect what they have to pay for. If you prepay $100 for a real estate seminar, you will be there. If people just have to sign up for a free seminar, 1/2 (or more) will be no-shows. 3. I would theorize if you made ORU basketball completely free, that in itself would not increase attendance by much. People's time is worth more than their money. If FREE were the big draw, then a Jr. high school girls softball game would have thousands attend. What matters is passion, commitment, as well as a quality product. 4. With the administrative changes taking place, I truly believe that the average attendance per game will increase by hundreds. If students and community feel better about the direction ORU is headed, it will have a huge positive effect in every area. 5. If there were really 8500 paid seats at the bracketbuster game (whether there or not) that was a good crowd, I want to apologize if I sounded critical. Go ORU!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLO_Gold Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Well the big competition on that day was OU-OSU Bedlam women's basketball (a single-game attendance record in Norman) and on TV, OSU vs. Kansas in Stillwater, Memphis vs. Tennessee on ESPN that night, OU vs. Texas at 2:30 p.m. on TV. The bottom line... we we're going to get any help from OU, OSU or TU fans. It was a tough date for ORU basketball especially with two home games earlier in the week. I don't want to make excuses, but we were handcuffed. I was happy we had the atmosphere we did have for the game. The players appreciated it. I received phone calls and texts from out of town fans that said it looked good on TV. So it wasn't all for nothing. Recruits didn't get turned off from ORU because of our crowd... and really that is all that matters. As long as recruits are happy... we all should be happy. Plus... all I have is a $2,000 annual advertising budget. Hey Mike here's a question for ya - when we give to the Renewing the Vision campaign can we give specifically to your advertising budget? That may not be possible but I thought I might ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 oh gosh, mike....only a $2000 budget....that is very sad....something needs to be done about that.....we must have some rich alumni somewhere......???....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Unfortunately a scary thing is the fact that so few of our on campus students even care about the basketball team...kind of flies in the face of the theory that successful athletic programs have a positive effect on applications for admissions and ultimately on student enrollment numbers. At Duke or even the University of Oklahoma, that may be true...at ORU, I'm not convinced that a very significant number of students would even care or notice if we dropped down to NAIA membership again. Yes, I know there are plenty of passionate fans among our current student body, but unfortunately it is by far not the majority of our students....they prove that by how few come out to the games. It's not necessarily a bad thing, we want students on campus whether they love athletics or not; I just believe it's pretty clear that most students don't come to ORU because of our athletic programs. I definitely disagree with the statement that if ORU were NAIA it wouldn't affect enrollment. There is still a significant segment of high school students who at least casually follow March Madness even if they don't follow all NCAA sports, and who want to be at least associated with a school that they expect to have athletic success. Also, pride in your university does translate into increased charitable giving and making the NCAA 3 years in a row does increase the pride of many ORU alumni. When ORU was NAIA, it wasn't even really covered by local media, and that decreased exposure also hurts ORU enrollment and giving. It made many in the general public perceive ORU as a 2nd rate university and decreased our exposure outside of Tulsa as well. It definitely makes a significant difference to be NCAA Division 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 All great points - don't necessarily agree with all of them, but they're all valid opinions. I really have no problem with the $17.00 single game ticket price, as long as we also offer significant discounts for season tickets (which we do), and game-by-game "dollars off" and/or "buy-one-get-one-free" coupons from local sponsors (which we also do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I appreciate the excellent comments by all especially Golden Boy and Old Titan...yeah, i guess 2008 is a lot different than 1975....students have much more to do and are paying a lot more for their education...going down to watch a basketball game when they have to study or have many other options is understandable....$100 an evening for a family of 4 is also hard in this economy unless you have a good income or love ORU roundball....i guess unless we have a Top 25 team, we are not going to see sold out crowds again at mabee...just makes me sad as on old titan, myself......i loved it....still do....... Thanks, Eagleman, your candor is appreciated greatly and I definitely appreciate your contributions here on the board. Unfortunately, you're probably right in your assessment of the likelihood of us seeing actual attendance being consistently acceptable (the arena being at least half-full seems reasonable). There are several contributing factors, but it is what it is...that said, I do believe there are things we could do that would influence more folks to come out more often to the Mabee Center; Mike Minyard is passionately committed to doing a great job selling tickets and his enthusiasm for ORU athletics is second to none...clearly he's limited with few if any "marquee" home opponents to work with as well as financial limitations from an advertising and promotions budget standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I can't believe that the NAI stinkin' A is even brought up. Those were dark days for ORU in may opinion, and God forbid it ever happens again. All we need is for a recruit or two to get shaky in their commitment, thinking there is even a hint of a possibility of going back. ORUs best days are ahead . . . mark my words! I haven't been to a game in a few years - is the general admission ticket $17? What about non-ORU student tickets, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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