Golden Boy Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I definitely disagree with the statement that if ORU were NAIA it wouldn't affect enrollment. Jason, I wanted to clarify that your interpretation of my words was a twist of my words and not necessarily what I was saying. Personally, I absolutely want ORU to remain D-I forever, so first and foremost, I want to make certain everyone understands that and doesn't misinterpret my post as me suggesting we should drop back to NAIA membership...horrible idea IMO. My point was, I believe the lack of student interest/support (i.e., lack of attendance at the games) of the basketball program strongly suggests that very few ORU students care too much about whether we're playing basketball against Arkansas State (D-I mid-major) or Arkansas Tech (NAIA). Yes, there are a lot of "sports fans" on campus at ORU just like you, me and everyone else on this board but they are lost among the masses of students who unfortunately, obviously couldn't care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I can't believe that the NAI stinkin' A is even brought up. Those were dark days for ORU in may opinion, and God forbid it ever happens again. All we need is for a recruit or two to get shaky in their commitment, thinking there is even a hint of a possibility of going back. ORUs best days are ahead . . . mark my words! I haven't been to a game in a few years - is the general admission ticket $17? What about non-ORU student tickets, etc.? Goodness, Larry, no one is suggesting a drop to the NAIA would make sense, and I couldn't agree with you more about ORU's best days being in the future. There isn't a "student" ticket price...it's $17 a ticket, unless there is a "discount/coupon" type promotion (buy one/get one free, buy one/get two free, etc.)...the challenge is, I know a guy who brought his family of four (at my suggestion) to the ORU vs. Rogers State (D-II) exhibition game and his eyes popped out of his head when he had to play $17 per ticket x four to get into the game. They didn't come back the rest of the year. Unfortunately, we don't have the kind of demand for our product to charge a price that high....and our niche market (Christian families living in the general South Tulsa metro area) isn't going to spend $100 to do that very often. Take the Creighton game as an example, we had two (2) mid-week conference games earlier that same week prior to the Saturday afternoon ESPN Bracket Buster match-up with CU. Mike Minyard rolled out a terrific ticket sales promotion, buy a ticket for the Creighton game ($17) and get FREE tickets to the other two (2) games earlier that week. Additionally, there was an ORU legends bobble head giveaway, t-shirt giveaway, and pre-game tailgate party at the Mabee Center (hurt by rainy weather)...we may have "announced" attendance at 8200ish (unfortunately that did not reflect "sold" tickets either), but our real actual attendance was half that number. Other than an early season, mid-week game with Tulsa, this was our "marquee" home date on the schedule...what else could have been done? We've already beat the dead horse about everything else that was going on that day as far as other entertainment options, so we don't need to go through all that again. Again, Mike Minyard's working his tail off to accomplish good things...you just have to understand it's not what it was in the 1970's for a lot of uncontrollable reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Alright, I understand. I'm OK now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Whose idea was it to announce 8200???...I just think i wouldn't have covered the empty seats with white t-shirts...i would have contacted local department stores and had the empties filled up with department store mannequins in ORU Vegas Blue and Gold....not that would have made ESPN highlight packages all over the USA!!!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 We can argue all day, but there was not 8,200, nor were there "half" of that (4,100) as suggested by Golden Boy. Somewhere between that number would be accurate. What Golden Boy sometimes forgets is that when he was selling tickets at ORU, we had home/home series' with OSU, OU, Arkansas, & TU. Not to mention, we had home gomes with the likes of Texas, Texas Tech, Nebraska, & others. Fortunately/Unfortunately (and you can look at it both ways), our success has REALLY hurt our ability to get home games with ANYONE of note. Thankfully, TU still plays us at Mabee every other year. But, other than that, Mike Minyard has got a REALLY tough job (especially this coming year) because the MARQUEE home game will be Oakland or IUPUI. And, while us die hards understand the importance of these games, the average sports fan in Tulsa won't get excited to buy tickets with this type of schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 We can argue all day, but there was not 8,200, nor were there "half" of that (4,100) as suggested by Golden Boy. Somewhere between that number would be accurate. What Golden Boy sometimes forgets is that when he was selling tickets at ORU, we had home/home series' with OSU, OU, Arkansas, & TU. Not to mention, we had home gomes with the likes of Texas, Texas Tech, Nebraska, & others. Fortunately/Unfortunately (and you can look at it both ways), our success has REALLY hurt our ability to get home games with ANYONE of note. Thankfully, TU still plays us at Mabee every other year. But, other than that, Mike Minyard has got a REALLY tough job (especially this coming year) because the MARQUEE home game will be Oakland or IUPUI. And, while us die hards understand the importance of these games, the average sports fan in Tulsa won't get excited to buy tickets with this type of schedule. Oakland and IUPUI may be our marquee home games of the season? Heck, from what I'm hearing, Oakland and IUPUI may be our first home games of the season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Minyard Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Oakland and IUPUI may be our marquee home games of the season? Heck, from what I'm hearing, Oakland and IUPUI may be our first home games of the season! Pretty true at this point... I'm cracking out the good 'ol marketing plan today and will be working on it for the next couple weeks. The marketing department went down to Dallas last week for the NACMA convention, and we came away with some very good ideas and concepts. The marketing effort will be much better this year, and hopefully that translates into a successful year. It won't be sellouts, but that's not how we measure success anyways. It's a tough job, but very rewarding at times too. We just want to make sure that when a kid comes out for his first ORU game (whether it's a Bracket Buster type game, Tulsa, Centenary, etc.) that he has the best possible time. I guess the theory is a lot like a famous Joe DiMaggio quote: "There is always some kid who may be seeing me for the first or last time, I owe him my best." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Fortunately/Unfortunately (and you can look at it both ways), our success has REALLY hurt our ability to get home games with ANYONE of note. Thankfully, TU still plays us at Mabee every other year. But, other than that, Mike Minyard has got a REALLY tough job (especially this coming year) because the MARQUEE home game will be Oakland or IUPUI. And, while us die hards understand the importance of these games, the average sports fan in Tulsa won't get excited to buy tickets with this type of schedule. I'm floored by the resiliency of this thread to keep going and going. Every time I open the message board someone has posted to it again! Such an unlikely topic for such a long thread! I had lunch with a guy yesterday who asked me how ORU's schedule was shaping up for next season, and I told him of some of the problems that ORU was having putting a decent home schedule together. I then went on to tell him about a few years back, when we were seeing Texas, Texas Tech, Arkansas, AT HOME, but now you won't see any teams even close to the level of those programs darkening the doors of Mabee Center. I remember watching Chris Mimm, the seven foot center for Texas, of late wearing Laker gold, playing at the Mabee Center. I might disagree a little with you over the reason, though, voice. While our success may play some role in making it hard to schedule upper level teams, most are willing to play us on their court. It's the away games that their not willing to schedule. We've watched this problem for mid-majors develop over the tenure of Scott Sutton, because in the early years of his head coaching we were playing those teams. I believe the stronger factors leading to the challenges of scheduling home games with top teams is 1) computer ranking systems, i.e. RPI, that magnifies the risks involved with even a road loss; 2) greater affluence of athletic programs, that allow them to "buy" a home schedule with guarantee games to programs like ORU, eliminating the need for home and homes; 3) potential added income from playing more home games. I have quoted a statement by Jim Boeheim of Syracuse several times (and will probably quote it a few more times!) where he stated that for their program, after ALL expenses are payed, including the guarantee to the visiting team, they clear $400,000 per home game. According to Boeheim, they can't "afford" to play on the road. It's really a very complicated situation, and it would probably help if the NCAA would get involved, but they probably won't, because money talks, and those programs with the money like things the way they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Quote: "While our success may play some roll (sic) in making it hard to schedule upper level teams, most are willing to play us on their court. It's the away games that their not willing to schedule. " This discussion is very interesting. Are you guys actually saying that it is ORUs SUCCESS that keeps a major conference team from scheduling a game at Mabee??? Surely there are some Majors out there willing to come in. I don't see any way the program is going to reach its full potential otherwise.http://:cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 My spell checker corrects spelling but not grammar or word usage. Good thing my board-mates are on their toes to help out with that . . . You've got it half-right, LarryL. ORU, whether as a result of our success or the other reasons I mentioned, CAN NOT get majors to come to ORU for a home game. The problem is getting decent mid-majors to come to Mabee Center for a game. Even the better mid-majors are playing their non-conference games at home. For example, two seasons ago TU played only one road game - against North Texas - in their non-conference play. All the rest were guarantee home games. And they're weren't that strong of a program at that point - but they had the money, and the desire to play games at home. So they did. The days of majors playing home and homes with mid-majors, with the exception of special circumstances, such as playing two-for-one or three-for-one, with the "one" being a televised game in a location of recruiting interest on a neutral court, are long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 This is an excellent June roundball topic....love it....i still agree with others that i find it hard to believe that decent mid majors like SF Austin, Sam Houston St., Wichita St., Winthrop, would not be willing to play home and home series with ORU....i can understand the BCS conferences will not come nor some or the really top mid majors like Butler, Gonzaga, etc....ORU has to give the home fans some decent entertainment for that $17 price tag....sure, i agree we need to bring in a couple patsies for Ws but in the past few years, Akron, Kent State and the like have come to Mabee....and Akron proved we can be beaten....are we going to return that game by going up there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Quote: "My spell checker corrects spelling but not grammar or word usage. Good thing my board-mates are on their toes to help out with that . . . You've got it half-right, LarryL. ORU, whether as a result of our success or the other reasons I mentioned, CAN NOT get majors to come to ORU for a home game. The problem is getting decent mid-majors to come to Mabee Center for a game. " Sorry, I can't help myself. I am the official proof-reader on our Pastoral Staff. I guess its a different world we live in now, as for as getting teams to play you at home. I would like to once again put in my 2-cents to whoever is reading this, for possibilities of mid-majors from my geographical area: Wofford College, USC-Upstate, UNC-Ashville, UNC-Charlotte, Gardner-Webb, Winthrop, College of Charleston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryL Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 . . . and don't forget Presbyterian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Because it is difficult for ORU to get good teams to come to the Mabee Center, the only way for them to have some decent home games is to schedule home-and-home series with other decent mid-major teams who are also in the same situation. But Missouri Valley teams don't seem to be willing to schedule home-and-home series with ORU, because they are in a "better" mid-major conference. That is why we played Utah State home and away a few years back. That is also why participating in the bracket buster has been a good thing for the schedule because we have received home-and-home series with Missouri State, Creighton, and Utah State (and also Montana) out of the deal. Since we have demonstrated a consistently strong RPI over the last few years, I would think that even if we couldn't get TCU, we should be able to schedule at least North Texas or Arkansas-Little Rock home and away. Maybe we don't want those games. I would think we would prefer those over Louisiana-Lafayette. While it has been good that we have played Texas, Texas A&M, Kansas, Georgetown, USC, Indiana, Minnesota, etc., over the last few years, eventually you have a season where playing so many road guarantee games catches up with you, and it looks like that may be this season. It does make you wonder why Wichita State, Missouri State and TCU wouldn't want to schedule us home-and-home since they are also trying to play non-conference teams with good RPIs to strengthen their schedules. But I guess they are trying to get more home games that they can win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Since we have demonstrated a consistently strong RPI over the last few years, I would think that even if we couldn't get TCU, we should be able to schedule at least North Texas or Arkansas-Little Rock home and away. Maybe we don't want those games. I would think we would prefer those over Louisiana-Lafayette. What was our RPI each of the last five (5) years? I know it was considerably better this past season, but prior to that I don't believe it was all that impressive (outside the top 75)...stat man, errrr big bro, can you please post those #'s for us at your convenience...thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Boy Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 We can argue all day, but there was not 8,200, nor were there "half" of that (4,100) as suggested by Golden Boy. Somewhere between that number would be accurate. What Golden Boy sometimes forgets is that when he was selling tickets at ORU, we had home/home series' with OSU, OU, Arkansas, & TU. Not to mention, we had home gomes with the likes of Texas, Texas Tech, Nebraska, & others. Fortunately/Unfortunately (and you can look at it both ways), our success has REALLY hurt our ability to get home games with ANYONE of note. Thankfully, TU still plays us at Mabee every other year. But, other than that, Mike Minyard has got a REALLY tough job (especially this coming year) because the MARQUEE home game will be Oakland or IUPUI. And, while us die hards understand the importance of these games, the average sports fan in Tulsa won't get excited to buy tickets with this type of schedule. Mike, how many gold seats are there in the Mabee Center? Answer: roughly 5,000 (for the purpose of this discussion, let's agree to use round numbers). IF we had moved the few folks sitting in the balcony sections down into gold seats at the ORU/Creighton game, there still would have been more than 500 empty gold seats. Eagleman and Larry have pointed it out already how disappointing it was to watch ESPN and see white t-shirts covering empty gold seats...it is what it is, my man. For the record, I'm not criticising anyone for the lack of attendance (it's a tough product to sell, especially when it's offered at an arguably high price for less than marquee opponents). My only concern is that we grossly overinflat and misreport attendance figures (similar to what the university has done for years with its enrollment figures)...to me, that's exactly what ORU should NOT do if we're trying to be forthright and in the words of Mart Green, put "faith in motion." If we want to inflat the number slightly and report 5,000 for the Creighton game, that's fine...but if we're going to blow it up to 8,200+ why not just go all the way to 10,575 and say we were "sold out"? CU was a quality opponent and a live national television audience on ESPN2 was a terrific get. It just happened to fall on a tough date with plenty of competition from other before mentioned entertainment options. As I said before, Mike Minyard put together some fantastic concepts to drive ticket sales for the Bracket Buster game, there was just too much to overcome. I'm certainly not dissing our boy Minyard, because as you should know I'm one of his biggest fans...I wish we had ten more like him working at ORU because his passion for ORU is second to none, and that is priceless. And speaking of priceless, Big Mike, so are you...thanks again for the invite to your housewarming party; sorry we couldn't make it as I'm sure we missed a fun time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Golden Boy....you really should be a politician. So, are you saying that you didn't 'inflate' attendance numbers during your stint at ORU? And, are you suggesting that it is OK to 'inflate' a little? That's what it sounds like... What then is the acceptable 'inflation' number/percentage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmh8286 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The other question is, is anyone saying that ORU just throws out an arbitrary attendence figure? That it isn't at least based on seats sold? ORU Big Brother, do you have a comment on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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