Re: Conference USA

[ashVID]

Titan even posted that he thought TU was in the lead on the TU board. With Tutt/Green gone TU and ORU are back in the same boat. ORU has the "advantage" of an easier conference if you see it that way but I suspect, that within Rotnei's tenure at TU should he choose TU, that C-USA will be a 3 bid league with 3 or 4 in the NIT as well. Summit will likely never be more than a 1 and 1 at best. RC will start from day 1 at both TU and ORU.

Locals are dismissing Gonzaga for the most part. My personal feeling, based on talking to a lot of people, is that TU is in the lead, OU is second and Gonzaga third. I think ORU may unfortunately be out of the picture but with his dad there you cant count them out completely. There are also some in home visits to come that could change everything but my money, for now, is on TU.

ash  =o)

[Old Titan]

C-USA will be a 3 bid league with 3 or 4 in the NIT as well.

ash  =o)

Just when Ash and I were seeing eye-to-eye, he uncorks this whopper.

C-USA has a long way to go before it has 6 or 7 teams in one season qualifying for postseason play.

A LONG way to go!

And as for why RC seems to be leaning toward TU, I have no idea.  It just appears to me he's leaning that way.  Only he and his inner circle can explain his reasons why.

And, for the record, Old Titan never posts on the TU message board (insert completely unfounded "Eaglebacker" accusation here: _______________________________) 

[tmh8286]

That's "EagleBackr", OT.

[Old Titan]

That's "EagleBackr", OT.

whatever... 

[ashVID]

C-USA surely has a long way to go but Clarke could be playing at TU until the 2011-2012 season. That is 5 years from now and TU, Houston, Southern Miss, UAB, Memphis and SMU all look to be in decent shape for making some solid post season noise before their next recruiting class graduates. Just look at the coaches at those schools and the recruits they have signed. If CUSA does not have 3 and 3 or 2 and 4 in the NCAA/NIT in the next 5 years I will be shocked.

ash  =o)

[Old Titan]

C-USA surely has a long way to go but Clarke could be playing at TU until the 2011-2012 season. That is 5 years from now and TU, Houston, Southern Miss, UAB, Memphis and SMU all look to be in decent shape for making some solid post season noise before their next recruiting class graduates. Just look at the coaches at those schools and the recruits they have signed. If CUSA does not have 3 and 3 or 2 and 4 in the NCAA/NIT in the next 5 years I will be shocked.

ash   =o)

You're assuming Memphis will still be in C-USA through the 2011-2012 season.

That's a pretty big assumption.

Plus, Tom Penders at Houston, Larry Eustachy at Southern Miss, and Mike Davis at UAB are all three just one bad season away from being on the hot seat at their respective schools.

And who knows what Matt Doherty will do at SMU - both he and that program are famous for underachieving.

AND, last but not least, if Doug Wojcik is still at TU in five years, I'll be shocked.  Who knows how your next hire will do?  Time will tell, but right now there's simply not enough stability in C-USA's  present structure or in it's present coaches to project the kind of overnight success you describe.

[Gold*]

Memphis isn't going anywhere.  Have you seen the stats on their other athletic programs?  They have men's basketball and that's it.  No one else would want them -- not the Big East (too big) and definitely not the SEC (Tennessee doesn't want them in their league).  Plus, with the Liberty Bowl, CUSA bends over backwards to give them whatever they want.

Eustachey has done pretty well at So Miss.  That program has low expectations.  Can't see him leaving or getting fired soon.

Penders isn't leaving Houston anytime soon.  He's too old to switch jobs.  He's got his quirky offense and a steady paycheck. 

Have you seen who Davis has recruited to UAB?   Holy cow!  I think he'll do well there.

All three of those coaches know what it is like to be in a pressure cooker job.  That's especially true with Davis.  I've heard Wojcik make similar comments about his time at UNC . . .

[TrueBlue82]

ORU has the "advantage" of an easier conference if you see it that way but I suspect, that within Rotnei's tenure at TU should he choose TU, that C-USA will be a 3 bid league with 3 or 4 in the NIT as well. Summit will likely never be more than a 1 and 1 at best. RC will start from day 1 at both TU and ORU.

ash  =o)

Frankly, three C-USA teams in the dance and six C-USA teams in post-season play is highly, highly unlikely.  Since the whole purpose of this dialogue is comparing the prospects of ORU's conference and TU's conference during Rotnei's collegiate career, let me add this...  it is more likely that ORU leaves the Summit League in the next five years (to a conference that would have more opportunity than the 1-bid option) than C-USA gains three NCAA and six overall post-season berths. While it is unlikely that ORU upgrades it's conference affiliation, it is far more reasonable than the "C-USA takes over the world" scenario.

Furthermore, if Rotnei is basing his decision on the current coaching staff, it is FAR more likely that Scott Sutton is at ORU five years from now than Doug Wojcik is at TU.  Want a confirmation? Just ask Wichita State!

[Old Titan]

It's always good to get a fresh perspective from people that have a background in college athletic administration. 

At least you've seen it from the inside without speculating!  Thanks for the logical speculation, JB & OT (and even some of you others).   

Thanks, Bogus - anytime I am mentioned in the same breath as our Idaho buddy, I am humbled.

The point is this:  C-USA by any other name is the Sunbelt Conference on steroids.  Decent basketball, not-so-big-time D-1 football.

The recent realignment of power conferences has eliminated the middle class in college basketball.  What we're left with is the BCS conferences getting 6-8 teams in the NCAA tournament every year (basically anyone over or around .500 in league play), and the remaining conferences getting a few bread clumbs thrown at them, with the "basketball emphasis" leagues like the Valley and the Colonial getting a little favoritism over the rest of the so-called "mid-majors".

The question is where do once-proud leagues like the A-10, Mid-America and C-USA fall in that scenario.  In the case of C-USA, I'm afraid they are currently leaning more toward the "one-or-two-teams-getting-into-postseason" category, especially as long as Memphis continues to totally dominate the rest of the league.  When was the last time the Tigers lost a league game?  How can the rest of the league expect 5-6 teams in post-season play, when there is such a real and/or perceived gulf between them and the conference champ?

Now, as far as the relation between Rotnei, C-USA, and the Summit League, there ARE differences.  C-USA teams do get on TV more (thanks to Memphis) and play before bigger crowds (they have some pretty big schools in that league) but in terms of the ultimate end result - NCAA play - the fact is the two leagues each got the exact same number of NCAA bids last year:  one.  You would have to ask RC what appeals to him more:  being a big fish in the Summit league pond, or a somewhat smaller fish in a somewhat bigger C-USA pond.  The bottom line is this:  neither is a big BCS lake - they're both ponds!

[Gold*]

CUSA is just a much better conference than the SBC -- better schools, more tradition, more fans, and much better bowl tie-ins and tv deals (example, when we played Louisiana Monroe -- I call them U-LaMe -- it was their first game EVER on ESPN).  It is a better conference from our WAC days, both in terms of fan interest and the quality of football/basketball.  You can keep trying to denigrate the basketball, but a team with an appropriate RPI and postseason resume will make the dance -- if we could do it in the WAC, we can do it there. 

[ORU_Ed]

  You can keep trying to denigrate the basketball, but a team with an appropriate RPI and postseason resume will make the dance -- if we could do it in the WAC, we can do it there. 

Oh Really??? 

tell that to Barry Hinson at Missouri State

[TrueBlue82]

It is a better conference from our WAC days, both in terms of fan interest and the quality of football/basketball. 

First, an apology to Rotnei for hijacking HIS thread, but the concept that C-USA is higher quality football than the TU's previous affiliation with the WAC is laughable.  Two words, Gold... BOISE STATE.  Wait, then add Hawaii, Fresno State, Nevada...  TU's payout from Boise State's Fiesta Bowl win (and the WAC's four overall bowl bids last season) would've been lucrative.  Go ahead and tell me that C-USA is a much better conference for TU... tell me that the travel is more reasonable, that natural rivalries abound, and that C-USA schools are a better fit for TU... and you'd have agreement on all points.  But don't make the unfounded statement that the quality of football is improved.  Doesn't hold water...

Now, we resume our normal programming already in progress... back to you, Rotnei.

[ashVID]

I apologize, I forgot the complete lack of reasonable objectivity on anything TU related over here. How bout this... C-USA will always have more post season bids than the Summit league. Have you seen the recruiting rankings this year for C-USA? A bunch of teams in the top 50. The coaches are solid as well. I think 5 or 6 in post season within 5 years is not nearly the reach you all insist. There will likely be an MVC-like conference mandate to improve the schedules in the next year or two as well.

ash  =o)

[Gold*]

First, an apology to Rotnei for hijacking HIS thread, but the concept that C-USA is higher quality football than the TU's previous affiliation with the WAC is laughable.  Two words, Gold... BOISE STATE.  Wait, then add Hawaii, Fresno State, Nevada...  TU's payout from Boise State's Fiesta Bowl win (and the WAC's four overall bowl bids last season) would've been lucrative.  Go ahead and tell me that C-USA is a much better conference for TU... tell me that the travel is more reasonable, that natural rivalries abound, and that C-USA schools are a better fit for TU... and you'd have agreement on all points.  But don't make the unfounded statement that the quality of football is improved.  Doesn't hold water...

Now, we resume our normal programming already in progress... back to you, Rotnei.

The football is better.  Boise was the only quality opponent we lost -- and they weren't winning the BCS games while we were in that conference.  Heck, we beat Fresno.  Hawaii has improved -- we beat them too towards the end of the WAC days.  If a CUSA school ran the table, they'd be in the same boat as Boise.  Mind you, when we were in the WAC, Marshall was the hot non-BCS school.  They are in CUSA, too.  So Miss is an excellent program.  I hate them, but Houston is also a very good program.  UCF is on the up and up.  UTEP goes to bowls and has an amazing fan base.  Memphis could have a great program if they'd get a coach.

It's well known that CUSA has better (and more)  bowls, better places to visit (New Orleans and Memphis vs. Fresno and Boise), and its fair share of interesting teams to play.  The teams seem to be better, top to bottom.  WAC schools don't play D.  Of course, neither does this year's TU team. 

And don't get me started on how this league helps recruiting compared to the WAC . . .

[Gold*]

Oh Really??? 

tell that to Barry Hinson at Missouri State

Mo State is in the WAC?

Seriously, you've got better arguments than that.  The Valley gets teams in at large.  There's a risk some teams don't get in, whether they are in the perceived BCS schools or not.

[Old Titan]

C-USA will always have more post season bids than the Summit league.

ash   =o)

2007 NCAA bids: 

? Summit League - 1

? C-USA - 1

Wasn't it MM who said "Always and never are two words you should never use."?? 

[ORU_Ed]

Gold, read your own words.  You said "a team with an appropriate RPI and postseason resume will make the dance".  MSU did exactly what the "requirements" were to get an at large and were denied not just once in favor of .500ish BCS schools. 

[Gold*]

Gold, read your own words.  You said "a team with an appropriate RPI and postseason resume will make the dance".  MSU did exactly what the "requirements" were to get an at large and were denied not just once in favor of .500ish BCS schools.   

They were a bubble team -- i.e., they should have had a higher RPI.  I agree that they were jobbed, but it's not like other Valley teams didn't get in at large.  The point has always been that a team from CUSA can make the tournament at large.  You guys keep relying on the extreme cases, but you aren't looking at the big picture.  I'm still waiting for the name of the last Mid-Con team to make the tournament at large.