Old Titan Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Now that football coach Steve Kragthorpe has made his inevitable move to a BCS school, men's basketball coach Doug Wojcik becomes TU's "senior" major sport coach after just 18 months, with a longer tenure even than their AD Bubba Cunningham. Can it be long before Wojcik, too, is on his way? Once they win 20 games and make the NCAA tournament, he's probably history. How spoiled are we having Scott Sutton, Jerry Finkbeiner, and Mike Carter for so long? Our only major change of late was Sunny Gollaway, and I for one was thrilled to see him leave! Has that been three years ago? Four? Time flies, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 If you reach the pinnacle of success (in basketball, that's winning tournament games), this is the risk you run. I actually think TU has a better chance of holding onto someone like Wojcik than it did with Kragthorpe. We have the money to compete with other programs in the region -- we were going to pay Self more than what either Eddie Sutton or Kelvin Sampson made. On the other hand, in football we're always going to have a rough time finacially. Until we get a Boone Pickens or someone wins Powerball, we'll have to settle for attempting to slowly build the program. Of course, the problem with Wojcik is that he's not an Oklahoma guy. That said, I don't think he'll pull a Buzz Peterson and jump at the first job. I think the record shows that the TU coaches who were patient ended up in better places (though that might have to do with their confidence in their ability to coach). If anything, TU's goal needs to be that it holds the coach until the truly elite offer (Kansas and Kentucky) rather than the mid-level BCS schools (Georgia and Illinois). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 No slight is intended toward TU, but they have no better chance of keeping Wojcik than they did Kragthorpe. It's not about money, facilities, or fan support - it's about conference affiliation. Kragthorpe left as much for the Big East as he did for Louisville - he now has a chance to play in a BCS bowl every season. Likewise for Wojcik - as long as C-USA is a 1-to-2-maybe-3 NCAA berth conference, any school in a BCS league is going to look more appealing, especially to a blue-blood league guy like him. He's not going to be satisfied with playing in the NIT and the occasional NCAA berth - he wants to be in The Dance every year, and that's going to be tough as long as Calipari stays at Memphis and if the bottom half of C-USA stays weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oruvoice Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 As much as I hate to say it, I like 'ol CRAZY EYES. He's a bright guy and really knows how to communicate. He gives a great interview. It also seems pretty obvious that he can recruit and coach a little. If only he could get a muscle relaxer to rub on those eyelids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orumom Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I just heard Steve Kragthorpe has a 5 year contract for $1.1 million per year. For the turn around he performed with TU football, I would have thought TU could compete for that amount. Guess I was wrong. I had even promised my husband I would go to Steve Kragthorpe's "Football for Dummies" course next year...... I waited one year too long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I just heard Steve Kragthorpe has a 5 year contract for $1.1 million per year. For the turn around he performed with TU football, I would have thought TU could compete for that amount. Guess I was wrong. I had even promised my husband I would go to Steve Kragthorpe's "Football for Dummies" course next year...... I waited one year too long That's the base without incentives. TU was close to that with incentives. Louisville paid Petrino $2.5 million a year. That's Bob Stoops money. TU can't afford that. The college football salaries are out of control and I predict in a generation or so the bottom is going to fall out of the market. Beyond that, he's getting an automatic BCS bid (the Big East is a joke) and a shot to work with his buddy, the AD. What's funny is that I hear they have attendance issues similar to OSU football (stadium is too big for fan base). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 No slight is intended toward TU, but they have no better chance of keeping Wojcik than they did Kragthorpe. It's not about money, facilities, or fan support - it's about conference affiliation. Kragthorpe left as much for the Big East as he did for Louisville - he now has a chance to play in a BCS bowl every season. Likewise for Wojcik - as long as C-USA is a 1-to-2-maybe-3 NCAA berth conference, any school in a BCS league is going to look more appealing, especially to a blue-blood league guy like him. He's not going to be satisfied with playing in the NIT and the occasional NCAA berth - he wants to be in The Dance every year, and that's going to be tough as long as Calipari stays at Memphis and if the bottom half of C-USA stays weak. I see TU as no different than Gonzaga -- if anything, CUSA should get more bids than the WCC. I'll find you the article that said Tulsa was Gonzaga before there was a Gonzaga from last year. It can happen. We have the resources to pay a basketball coach right, recruit nationally, and fly our players to games when we're winning. If TU was in the tournament every year in the WAC, it surely can do it in the CUSA. The current CUSA really reminds me of the old WAC with Utah at the top and a bunch of football schools. We still made the tournament then. I've said it before -- we have a better shot with Wojcik than Kragthorpe. Football is such a completely different animal. I hate to Coach K go, but it's not the end of the world -- far from it, that was the world BEFORE Coach K got to TU football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 As much as I hate to say it, I like 'ol CRAZY EYES. He's a bright guy and really knows how to communicate. He gives a great interview. It also seems pretty obvious that he can recruit and coach a little. If only he could get a muscle relaxer to rub on those eyelids. That was actually funny. He does kind of remind me of Mike Singletary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 I see TU as no different than Gonzaga -- if anything, CUSA should get more bids than the WCC. Not sure what you're basing that assumption on, at least in the short term - most "bracketology" websites have C-USA as a one-bid conference this season (Memphis, in the #5-#7 range). That's the same number of bids as the Mid-Con! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Who cares about Bracketology? If we went by that, why play the games? I've followed Lunardi for years and think his methods are about as sound as those used by ESPN to give Troy Smith the Heisman. A couple of points: the relative ability of conferences frequently fluctuates (Big 12 a few years ago vs. Big 12 last year or Mo Valley when TU was in it vs. the Mo Valley of today). Tulsa has been in a conference with a perceived big dog (Utah with Van Horn, Doleac, and Miller) and probably had its best team ever then (the 96-97 team with Seals and Ruffin). Even if CUSA only gets one bid (I think it will get at worst two this year), that doesn't mean Wojcik is somehow discouraged from staying. So many of the problems that were present in the WAC (notably TV and travel costs) have been cured by this arrangement. Gonzaga is frequently the only team out of the WCC. The argument holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Who cares about Bracketology? If we went by that, why play the games? I've followed Lunardi for years and think his methods are about as sound as those used by ESPN to give Troy Smith the Heisman. A couple of points: the relative ability of conferences frequently fluctuates (Big 12 a few years ago vs. Big 12 last year or Mo Valley when TU was in it vs. the Mo Valley of today). Tulsa has been in a conference with a perceived big dog (Utah with Van Horn, Doleac, and Miller) and probably had its best team ever then (the 96-97 team with Seals and Ruffin). Even if CUSA only gets one bid (I think it will get at worst two this year), that doesn't mean Wojcik is somehow discouraged from staying. So many of the problems that were present in the WAC (notably TV and travel costs) have been cured by this arrangement. Gonzaga is frequently the only team out of the WCC. The argument holds. A week before the bids came out last year, Lunardi was the one who had ORU as a #16 seed playing a #1 Memphis in Dallas. Both predictions seemed a little off the wall - ORU thinking it was at worst a #15, and Memphis being predicted as low as a #3 in some other brackets. Lunardi was right on the money once the official brackets were announced. His forte is not predictions; it's connections: he has unrivaled access to the selection committee. Like him or not, there is no one more accurate in the final days before the official selections come out than Joe Lunardi. As for your argument holding, time will tell. When Wojcik leaves (and he will, soon), the main reason will not likely be anything TU has done wrong (fan support/facilities/money/etc.); it will be because, like Kragthorpe, he will be improving his chances of big-time post-season play at a BCS school. This is a common occurance at non-BCS schools; I would think by now you guys would be used it, and not wasting any sleep over how to retain these young turks. Just always be prepared to pull the trigger on hiring the next one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 What does Lunardi's prediction a week before the NCAA last year have to do with mid-season predictions this year on any other year? Different animals. The conference season has barely started. My argument was that TU has a better chance with Wojcik and any other basketball coach because we can compete financially. You have no response to that. Your new argument is that the BCS will determine -- what, pray tell, does a football oligarchy have to do with basketball? I realize the media creates some of that perception, but there are plenty of schools who have thrived and kept their coaches from non-BCS leagues (Gonzaga, Wichita State, Creighton, George Mason, Memphis). Tulsa has just as good a chance as anyone at keeping a coach -- given our success in history and the quality of life in Tulsa, I'd say we have a better chance than some of those schools. Could we lose Wojcik? Sure. But it's not an automatic. We have the resources in basketball that just don't exist in football. That's my argument and it remains totally unrefuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 What does Lunardi's prediction a week before the NCAA last year have to do with mid-season predictions this year on any other year? Different animals. The conference season has barely started. My argument was that TU has a better chance with Wojcik and any other basketball coach because we can compete financially. You have no response to that. Your new argument is that the BCS will determine -- what, pray tell, does a football oligarchy have to do with basketball? I realize the media creates some of that perception, but there are plenty of schools who have thrived and kept their coaches from non-BCS leagues (Gonzaga, Wichita State, Creighton, George Mason, Memphis). Tulsa has just as good a chance as anyone at keeping a coach -- given our success in history and the quality of life in Tulsa, I'd say we have a better chance than some of those schools. Could we lose Wojcik? Sure. But it's not an automatic. We have the resources in basketball that just don't exist in football. That's my argument and it remains totally unrefuted. While I respect your tenaciousness, I must disagree on several points: TU is no Gonzaga, C-USA is no longer a multi-bid league, and Wojcik is no Dana Altman. He will bolt within two more seasons to a BCS-league school, and no one but TU fans will fault him when he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl VU Fan Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Who cares about Bracketology? If we went by that, why play the games? I've followed Lunardi for years and think his methods are about as sound as those used by ESPN to give Troy Smith the Heisman. There is no method to Lunardi's madness. He even said so when he started this thing a few years ago. He does it for the fun and sees no reason to back up his predictions with logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djenkins13 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Guys any idea what W makes at Tulsa? I know that Wichita st and Creighton are around 750,000 to 900,000 for those guys. Few makes around 1 million at Gonzaga. Can Tulsa match that type of $$? Just a question, I know what Phillips made and was wondering if it Tulsa can stretch it that high. He is doing a good job and just depends on how big of a rush he is in. Altman at Creigton will only leave for a high profile type job and no Neb and Colo. do not count as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 There is no method to Lunardi's madness. He even said so when he started this thing a few years ago. He does it for the fun and sees no reason to back up his predictions with logic. You're mistaking Lunardi for a prognosticator, which he isn't. He is, however, an insider with impeccable connections and sources. Pay little heed to his bracket until around March 1. But after that, book him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Guys any idea what W makes at Tulsa? I know that Wichita st and Creighton are around 750,000 to 900,000 for those guys. Few makes around 1 million at Gonzaga. Can Tulsa match that type of $$? Just a question, I know what Phillips made and was wondering if it Tulsa can stretch it that high. He is doing a good job and just depends on how big of a rush he is in. Altman at Creigton will only leave for a high profile type job and no Neb and Colo. do not count as such. They were going to pay Self a million a year. Kragthorpe got close to that. So yes, TU can pay the coach that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold* Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 You're mistaking Lunardi for a prognosticator, which he isn't. He is, however, an insider with impeccable connections and sources. Pay little heed to his bracket until around March 1. But after that, book him. Then why did you cite it as a source as to why Wojcik would bolt CUSA? Contradiction much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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